Why are liners sewn or glued to felt fedoras?

[Bob Roberts]

Art Fawcett and John Penman sew their liners in as well

+1

 

[navarre]

Yup.

 

[navarre]

The liner at the least needs to attached at the crown (at the piping).

Again, the point actually comes down to quality of construction. Early on I had many customers request the lining to be removable, and so, for a while I did not sew liners into the hat. That is all good and well, but liners can easily get shaken out in the mail or dislodged in many other situations. The changing experience for me was when a TSA worker mangled the liner out of one of my hats at an airport. I suppose that's fine for me, I am a hat maker. But it is not acceptable if you are a standard hat wearer and are then stuck with the job of getting your liner re-set nicely.

Sewing is particularly is important with fine liners. If you own a quality vintage hat that is pre 1960, I would chance to say that the top as well as the base of your liner is hand sewn to the crown of the hat. In the case some of German and Austrian hats, I have rebuilt many in which the top of the liner and the sides were two separate pieces held together by the same stitching that affixed them to the crown. There is an unbelievable amount of skill involved in that.

If your preference is still to have a removable liner, stitching really doesn't hinder that in any way. It really is only comprised of a few long running stitches. One to two snips and the liner is easily removed.

That being said, many standard modern liners or even those of heavy satin do hold them selves in place nicely enough. So if you would prefer your hat to not have any stitching, just tell your favorite hat maker the next time you order. We are all pretty accommodating fellas.

 

[Drdan]

Thanks everyone for your input. Navarre's post sums it up pretty well for me.

 

[mayserwegener]

Art Fawcett and John Penman sew their liners in as well

My point is stitching at / around the crown piping. This prevents the liner from drooping. If you just place the liner in hat it could droop.

 

[mayserwegener]

Again, the point actually comes down to quality of construction. Early on I had many customers request the lining to be removable, and so, for a while I did not sew liners into the hat. That is all good and well, but liners can easily get shaken out in the mail or dislodged in many other situations. The changing experience for me was when a TSA worker mangled the liner out of one of my hats at an airport. I suppose that's fine for me, I am a hat maker. But it is not acceptable if you are a standard hat wearer and are then stuck with the job of getting your liner re-set nicely.

Sewing is particularly is important with fine liners. If you own a quality vintage hat that is pre 1960, I would chance to say that the top as well as the base of your liner is hand sewn to the crown of the hat. In the case some of German and Austrian hats, I have rebuilt many in which the top of the liner and the sides were two separate pieces held together by the same stitching that affixed them to the crown. There is an unbelievable amount of skill involved in that.

If your preference is still to have a removable liner, stitching really doesn't hinder that in any way. It really is only comprised of a few long running stitches. One to two snips and the liner is easily removed.

That being said, many standard modern liners or even those of heavy satin do hold them selves in place nicely enough. So if you would prefer your hat to not have any stitching, just tell your favorite hat maker the next time you order. We are all pretty accommodating fellas.

Good point regarding the liner material. In my experience hat liners (most of mine are German or Austrian) that were stitched at the crown will droop if the stitching has come lose / broken. I seem to recall later (1960s >) liners were glued in both places.

 

[navarre]

I'll back you up on that Steve. I would guess, as time went on and factories were cutting cost, less expensive satins were employed. Not only are they heavier in weight but their thicker nature allows the use of glue. Earlier materials were finer and would certainly allow the glue to show through. That, coupled with the fact that placing six dabs of hot glue vs the skilled labor of hand sewing was surely more cost effective. There is no need to train someone with a hot glue gun.

I did want to add a word for those of you who wish to pull a liner affixed with glue. Pull slowly. It is possible to tear your felt or pull a chunk off by not taking your time.

 

[mayserwegener]

I checked some of my 1970s Borsalinos, Panizza, and Barbisios and the liners are stitched at the bottom and at the top of the crown. These were the last of the really high end factory hats.

Yes the later liners that are glued at bottom and top are of heavier weight and less quality. This became the status quo for German and Austrian hats. The transition took place early to mid 1960s (some a bit later). Here is a 1960s Lembert that has a missing liner. You can see the glue residue around the upper crown.

 

[Drdan]

Lots of really interesting information has been given about sewn vs glued liners. It's all pretty clear now; thanks!

 

[-30-]

I equate glued-in liners with the construction of shoes using "Bookbinder Leather"; "Corrected Grain Leather"; "Polished Leather"; et al.

(Cheap, but not Cheerful.)

http://www.theshoesnobblog.com/2013/06/bookbinder-leather-dont-be-fooled.html

Another reason not to like B . . .


Regards,
J T

 

[navarre]

WOW!! That was a great article -30-. It may derail this thread but I am so glad you posted it. This explains so many pairs of mid level shoes that I have been upset by.

I do agree with the rain resistance as I am a year round dress shoe wearer in the rainy northwest and have benefited from that, but those cracks....those damn cracks.

 

[-30-]

"WOW!! That was a great article "
navarre.

As below:

http://www.theshoesnobblog.com/2013/06/bookbinder-leather-dont-be-fooled.html

After having read that article, it certainly opend my eyes!

The problem with many items or workmanship is not what is seen or known at the time of purchase, but what becomes apparent after

living with them for some time; that also should include, with hindsight, if the goods are poor, where it can

be seen, what are the chances of a Happy Birthday Moment!


Regards,
J T