Who should be allowed to vote?

[Viola]

The last Presidential election was the first I was of age for. I had, of course, never been inside a booth before, and the guy asked if I wanted to be shown how to use it.

I said sure.

"Just push THIS BUTTON." He said. The Kerry button.

:rage:

Marc, the thing with Starship Troopers was you could not be found too ill or handicapped to serve; "we'll find something you can do." The thing was you had to make the effort, not be physically sound.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

*ahem*
Read this
http://thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=172546&postcount=36

Thank you for the heads-up! I missed seeing that post. Appreciate it

Marc, the thing with Starship Troopers was you could not be found too ill or handicapped to serve; "we'll find something you can do." The thing was you had to make the effort, not be physically sound.

Thank you for clarifying this I haven't read any Heinlein since Stranger in a Strange Land. I grok your point.


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[Story]

Thank you for the heads-up! I missed seeing that post. Appreciate it
.

Nola problema.

For those interested in further dissection of Heinlein's theories on Citizenship and Service, there are several decent websites covering them. Here's one.
http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm

 

[Twitch]

Don't blame 18 year olds cause plenty of "adults" base their voting on physical appearance too and always have. "Well he/she just looks so honest." lol lol lol

 

[Pilgrim]

Thanks for the clarification, Story. I haven't read the book in a few years, but notice how even mentioning the concept stimulated discussion??

Such sub-plots raise an everday novel to a much higher level.

Heinlein was an Annapolis graduate who had to leave the Navy because of a heart defect discovered after graduation. Fortunately for all of us, he turned to writing as a way to make a living. We are the richer for it.

 

[The Captain]

There is a segment on the Jay Leno show called, "Jay Walking" where he interviews young people out on the streets of Hollywood. He always asks a question that anyone, who is aware of what is happening in the world today, should know. The majority of these people say they are in college or in various teaching jobs. Their answers are appaling. How they can vote intelligently is beyond me. Not a clue who Dick Cheney is! Yes, there should be some kind of intelligence test for the right to vote.

 

[Solid Citizen]

Right on Captain

Captain, you are 100% correct on the Leno on the street bit it gets unfunny quickly when you realize this is probably more the norm than the exception.

SC [huh]

 

[Miss Crisplock]

Oh, but a pretty smile has been a factor for a long time. Warren G. Harding blessedthe ladies who voted him in...


And what we got was... a pretty smile in the White House, a wife far too involved in policy, Teapot Dome, and well, Warren G. Harding.

 

[Tourbillion]

Voting is mandatory in some countries:

http://www.idea.int/vt/compulsory_voting.cfm

I think that limiting who can vote by intelligence, literacy, property status etc. is dangerous.

However, mandatory voting is dangerous too, but in a very different way!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

However, mandatory voting is dangerous too, but in a very different way!

Hmmm ... http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=172477&postcount=29


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[ArrowCollarMan]

Barely anyone votes as it is. I wish they would have something where if under 50% of the population voted they'd have to do the elections over again.

Who cares if someone is "ignorant" in the voting polls? Nothing we can do about stupidity and ignorance.

 

[Matthew Dalton]

Barely anyone votes as it is. I wish they would have something where if under 50% of the population voted they'd have to do the elections over again.

Who cares if someone is "ignorant" in the voting polls? Nothing we can do about stupidity and ignorance.

If it's easier for your party to get elected when the voters are stupid and ignorant, what might happen to public schools when you run things?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Barely anyone votes as it is. I wish they would have something where if under 50% of the population voted they'd have to do the elections over again.

Who cares if someone is "ignorant" in the voting polls? Nothing we can do about stupidity and ignorance.

I think an even bigger problem is the rampaging cynicism in our culture -- the idea that "why should I bother to vote? All any of them are out for is to line their own pockets, it's the big money interests behind the scenes who pull all their strings, the parties are nothing but different sides of the same dirty coin, and no matter who wins, ordinary working folks can't help but end up on the pointy end of the stick."

I know a lot of very intelligent people who feel this way -- and they don't bother to vote, because they honestly feel it's a waste of their time to even bother if their vote isn't going to mean anything. If that trend keeps up, what we'll end with is the only people who are going to bother to vote will be party hacks -- and we'll end up even more polarized and with a less-responsive, responsible government than we even have now.

So what's the solution? *Are* there honest people in politics that these disillusioned voters could support? Or should we just keep on overlooking the corruption and the cynicism and vote on the basis of "our party hacks are better than your party hacks?"

*Is* there a solution?

(Oh, and I always vote. But I don't always feel good about the choices I was given to vote for.)

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Oh, but a pretty smile has been a factor for a long time. Warren G. Harding blessedthe ladies who voted him in... And what we got was... a pretty smile in the White House, a wife far too involved in policy, Teapot Dome, and well, Warren G. Harding.

My dad, who voted back in those days, always believed that Warren G. Harding was the worst President ever. He didn't live long enough to experience Nixon, Carter, Clinton, ...... et al!

I think old Warren might look pretty good just about now!

-dixon cannon

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Barely anyone votes as it is. I wish they would have something where if under 50% of the population voted they'd have to do the elections over again. Who cares if someone is "ignorant" in the voting polls? Nothing we can do about stupidity and ignorance.

Most eligible voters are voting!.... they actually vote NONE OF THE ABOVE! "I wish they would have something where" if voters vote NONE OF THE ABOVE that office or proposition would be dropped and we would proceed without it. When most of the offices are vacant and the bonds and propositions are ignored, eligible voters might again gain some interest in their government and it's functions...and their role as active, concerned citizens!

-dixon cannon

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

All this discussion gives me a brilliant idea.
I'll start my own party. Call it the Bling-bling party,...or something like that.
I'll dress in enormous trousers, an enormous calf length t-shirt, and backwards baseball cap.
My party will be the party that knows how to PARTAY! :beer: lol
Our platform will be; Uhhmm,...like, whatever dude. Policy won't really matter, it will be the flavor of the month, so I'll make something up as I go along.
We will appeal to the lowest common denominator in society, and so we'll win by a landslide!
After I'm elected, I will of course do a complete 180 degree turn around of policy. I will wear a fedora and a 3 piece suit at all times and I will turn this country around to the way it should be.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

I know a lot of very intelligent people who feel this way -- and they don't bother to vote, because they honestly feel it's a waste of their time to even bother if their vote isn't going to mean anything. If that trend keeps up, what we'll end with is the only people who are going to bother to vote will be party hacks -- and we'll end up even more polarized and with a less-responsive, responsible government than we even have now.

So what's the solution? *Are* there honest people in politics that these disillusioned voters could support? Or should we just keep on overlooking the corruption and the cynicism and vote on the basis of "our party hacks are better than your party hacks?"

*Is* there a solution?

(Oh, and I always vote. But I don't always feel good about the choices I was given to vote for.)

LizzieMaine, I'm afraid we are already there.

I'm going to answer your question! YES! There is a solution and there has been since 1971! It's called the LIBERTARIAN PARTY! If all voters who hold your sentiments would just vote for Libertarian candidates, or write in Libertarians in EVERY election, we would soon see a shift. Some Libertarians would be elected, but most DemoPublicans would see that to get votes they must change their rhetoric, their platform and their posture.

Continually voting for Republicrats has brought us to the place that you speak of. Continually voting for "party hacks" ... "we'll end up even more polarized and with a less-responsive, responsible government than we even have now."

Combined with taking responsibility and control of ones "Tax" status, voting LIBERTARIAN in EVERY election is the SOLUTION that we're looking for. Most people though want to continue grousing about the problems and quibbling over theoretical issues rather than actively participating in that solution. I am the provocateur that challenges people to just do it.... and let's get on with the American Revolution!

Sincerely and most respectfully,
-Dixon Cannon
Neo-Jeffersonian Constitutional Fundamentalist

 

[Briscoeteque]

I don't think 18 year olds are any better or worse off than they were before, and I seriously don't think taking the vote away would do any good at all. A large percentage never knew civics or whatever, believe it or not, alot of us younger than 21 voters keep reletively informed. Why just last year I registered, pretty much to vote down a single resolution that would have taken away the illegality of discrimination of people based on their sexual orientation. It ended up being shot down by about 600 votes in my town. My college has about 1800 students. Taking away the vote from large people based on poor generalizations is silly.

 

[Story]

Thanks for the clarification, Story. I haven't read the book in a few years, but notice how even mentioning the concept stimulated discussion?? Fortunately for all of us, he turned to writing as a way to make a living. We are the richer for it.

1. My pleasure.
2. I'm glad you picked up on my reference.
Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Jean Rasczak
3. Indeed.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Jean Rasczak

Violence resolves conflicts, but sows the seeds of future conflicts ... which also begin with violence.

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