Who first said "Intellectual agility of a small soap dish"?

[Harp]

Edward, your post has shamed me, I went to a Catholic school run by The Vincentian Fathers...
... I never learned from my Catholic teaching, Astor was very strongly anti-catholic, but how that faith took great relish when it was known that Astor's son, Bobby Shaw, had been arrested for homosexual offences.

Quam terribilis est dicere. Pudor in te.
I went to a Christian Brothers of Ireland prison. Years of razor strop beatings, face slapping, boxing challenge.
All things considered though ties tied at full staff, short hair, and close shave-I didn't need to shave then,
and strict discipline produced result.

 

[GHT]

@GHT LOL Thanks........I knew in the back of my mind that the quote and the people where notable!.........Churchill really had a sharp tongue!

thanks again

Latigo

Indeed he did: Many books of quotations include a caustic quote attributed to Winston Churchill in which he supposedly called British naval tradition nothing but “rum, sodomy, and the lash.”

Quam terribilis est dicere. Pudor in te.
I went to a Christian Brothers of Ireland prison. Years of razor strop beatings, face slapping, boxing challenge.
All things considered though ties tied at full staff, short hair, and close shave-I didn't need to shave then,
and strict discipline produced result.

Mea culpa.

 

[belfastboy]

Quam terribilis est dicere. Pudor in te.
I went to a Christian Brothers of Ireland prison. Years of razor strop beatings, face slapping, boxing challenge.
All things considered though ties tied at full staff, short hair, and close shave-I didn't need to shave then,
and strict discipline produced result.

Christian Bros have a terrible terrible history here in Canada. Right now we are experiencing another round of the news cycle on the terrible conditions in the First Nations residential schools run by many different denominations but largely Catholic. I get into trouble when I point out that the Catholic brothers did not just pick on First Nations.....they were mean and terrible to all kids regardless of race and ethnicity.

 

[belfastboy]

Indeed he did: Many books of quotations include a caustic quote attributed to Winston Churchill in which he supposedly called British naval tradition nothing but “rum, sodomy, and the lash.”

Mea culpa.

Ha, I thought that "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash" came from the Pogues!

 

[dubpynchon]

Ha, I thought that "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash" came from the Pogues!

So do I, great album, ‘The Old Main Drag’ is a bitter, caustic masterpiece.

 

[Edward]

I remember being slightly shocked by Churchill being so rude to a aldy the first time I read about this years ago. The more I actually learn about Nancy Astor, however.....

She is indeed historically notable for being the first woman to take her seat in the British Parliament (in the first election in which women could also vote - but only if they were over 35; true universal sufferage at the age of eighteen did not come to the UK until 1928). She was, however, only the second woman elected in a British general election, the first being Constance Markievicz in December 1918. Markievicz, of course, ran on the Sinn Fein ticket and therefore held to the policy of refusing to take the oath of allegiance to the British Crown and sit in Westminster, instead remaining in Ireland to be one of the founders of the Dail Eireann (Irish parliament) which commanded the separationist forces in the Anglo-Irish War of 1919-21, leading to the formation of the Irish Free State in 1922 under the Anglo Iish Treaty of December 1921. An individual in many ways as fascinating and sometimes controversial as Astor herself. A comparative biography of the two would make for a fascinating study.

Note on point of accuracy: the Representation of the People Act 1928 did bring the voting age for women into line with men for the first time, but that was at 21; it wasn't until the Representation of the People Act 1969 that the voting age was lowered from 21 to its present 18.

Edward, your post has shamed me, I went to a Catholic school run by The Vincentian Fathers, I had forgotten more about Constance Markievicz than I remembered about Nancy Astor. Interesting to note that Markievicz was Polish and was the first woman in the world to hold a Cabinet Position, whilst Astor was American, her achievement has always been sullied by her sympathetic view of Nazism.

Constance was Anglo-Irish (from an aristocratic birth herself; she was born in London to Anglo-Irish parents), her husband, from whom she took the name Markievicz, was Polish. The title is debatable; as memory serves, they met when he was living in Paris (he having fled the Soviets), where he was known as Count Markievicz. Her family made "enquiries", and were told that there never had been an official title of Count Markievicz in existence, though he was legitimately part of the Polish aristocracy under some measure or other. By any measure, she was of course wealthy. She and her husband owned one of the first motorcars in Ireland, which I believe was used in some capacity in and around the 16 Rising. Naturally, the security of her wealth allowed her a certain level of freedom to become involved in radical politics in her time. An interesting character, she did a lot in terms of social action, aside from her more direct political career - as well, of course, as her direct involvement in the fighting in 1916, at a time when the idea of a woman on the front lines (which was still a topic of hot debate in the British Army as I recall almost a century later). She reputedly also said:

"Dress suitably in short skirts and strong boots, leave your jewels in the bank and buy a revolver."

Interesting fashion advice!

It would be unfair to blame Nancy Astor completely, Henry Ford also had a sympathetic stance towards the Nazis. But in Astor's case it was more to do with the purge that Stalin had instigated whereas Ford was an out and out anti-semite.

Ford seems rather to have gotten a pass on that, when you think there are people today still hold Hugo Boss to account for supplying the Reich... Mind you, if we started to truly unpick that sort of thing we'd have to admit how rampant anti-Semitism was in the Allied nations as well. This is the same History, of course, which likes to trumpet Jesse Owens' victory over the Aryan Supermen, but glosses over that at home he'd have been unlikely to have even been permitted to compete on the same field as them.

As to Astor, well. The "enemy of my enemy is my friend" philosophy quite probably had a lot to do with her class based views (as memory serves, she only really wanted the vote for women of her own social class, not the lower orders- indeed, one of the major reasons the suffragette movement faced the battle it did was because its leadership refused to fight for a wider, general suffrage). It was certainly common in Eastern Europe for sympathisers of the Tsarist regime to see the Nazis as people with whom they could make common cause against a shared enemy. Interesting the intellectual loopholes people can jump through in the name of expediency when they're not a target.

Ha, I thought that "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash" came from the Pogues!

There was a British imperial navy theme to the album cover, hence the title in reference, which was taken from Churchill. It's an impossible task to pick one, single "best" Pogues LP, but if there is such a thing this one has to be it.

So do I, great album, ‘The Old Main Drag’ is a bitter, caustic masterpiece.

A truly great band, they had the great good fortune to have not one but three highly gifted songwriters within their ranks. It's truly sad they no longer do their Christmas tours: for a good decade or so I saw them every year, and there has never been a live act to beat them.