White Tie Outerwear

[Edward]

Its an Australian flip/wrist phone, rather heavy but cute to use on the train, in front of riff raff

Very Dick Tracy - got any other photos of that? Sounds fun...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Cufflinkmaniac et al, the most appropriate topcoat for white tie is also one of the most difficult to find. Below are photos of mine, which is from the 1920s or '30s. Note the midnight blue worsted wool fabric, the braided cloth buttons, the satin faced lapels, and the fly front opening. The topcoat has a plain back with a center vent.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Bumpity bump.

 

[Chasseur]

Beautiful coat Marc.

I love those buttons!

When I love back to a cooler climate I'll be on the look out for a couple of vintage overcoats. I'll need one for formal wear...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Thanks! Mine was custom tailored in Pennsylvania in 1910.


As I wrote above, these white tie topcoats are extremely rare. They are not single-breasted frock coats. President Woodrow Wilson shocked fashion mavens by wearing one in the daytime, over day clothes! (According to that era's rules of etiquette, he should have worn a velvet-collared chesterfield overcoat instead.)

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[Chasseur]

Interesting.

So the Chesterfield would be for daytime over morning dress and then this type of non-velvet collared coat for evening wear then?

I had always thougth the Chesterfield was for evening wear.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

In President Wilson's era, the chesterfield was commonly used for daytime -- over lounge suits, swallowtail coats, and frock coats -- and for black tie (though black tie was not yet the norm for evening wear).


By the 1930s, the chesterfield was commonly worn with black tie and often white tie, and to a decreasing extent for formal daytime (morning coats and bankers' suits).


By the 1970s, the chesterfield was worn almost exclusively for both black tie and white tie. This is still the norm.


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[Chasseur]

Marc,

Thanks for the explanation!

Any books you recommend on this subject? I'm doing my best to learn.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The two best pointers I can give:


-- Take a Saturday off and go to the University of Hawaii. Find the campus's main research library and have a librarian guide you to the bound volume copies of "Esquire" magazine. (Hopefully, they're in the collection.) These volumes should contain every issue of Esquire from the 1930s and '40s. Be prepared to spend 3 or 4 hours looking through them: there are thousands of clothing illustrations, articles, and advertisements!


-- Come to California and attend the Vintage Fashion Expo (held in Los Angeles and San Francisco twice a year). Look through the 1930s and '40s menswear in each booth. Touch the fabrics, inspect the linings, notice the details, and try things on. To really learn about this stuff, you must use nearly all of your senses.


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[Chasseur]

Take a Saturday off and go to the University of Hawaii. Find the campus's main research library and have a librarian guide you to the bound volume copies of "Esquire" magazine.

Marc,

The first one I'll do this summer, the second might have to wait for a bit!

 

[reetpleat]

What's the ticket if you're going full-dress in warm weather? I know tails should never be the outer layer outdoors.

I'm thinking some sort of unlined duster, tho it would likely fail the "must be black" test.

Classically, of course, it would be the opera cloak.

In Singin In the Rain, the guy at the start looks smashing in a lightweight, seemingly whiteish trench coat over his tails, with a white fedora.

 

[reetpleat]

The two best pointers I can give:


-- Take a Saturday off and go to the University of Hawaii. Find the campus's main research library and have a librarian guide you to the bound volume copies of "Esquire" magazine. (Hopefully, they're in the collection.) These volumes should contain every issue of Esquire from the 1930s and '40s. Be prepared to spend 3 or 4 hours looking through them: there are thousands of clothing illustrations, articles, and advertisements!


-- Come to California and attend the Vintage Fashion Expo (held in Los Angeles and San Francisco twice a year). Look through the 1930s and '40s menswear in each booth. Touch the fabrics, inspect the linings, notice the details, and try things on. To really learn about this stuff, you must use nearly all of your senses.


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YES, DON'T FORGET TO SMELL THE UNDERARM FOR THE DREADED FUNK. A SURE SIGN OF VINTAGE.