White Tie and Frock Coat Questions...

[M Tatterscratch]

August Gentlemen of the Lounge,

I have a dilemma, and need your advice.

I currently find myself living in Frankfurt, Germany without a reliable vintage tailor. I have with me, in addition to a huge number of other things, a late 19th Century double-breasted frock coat and a 1940s set of white tie evening clothes, the latter which I recently picked up for New Years at the Paris Opera, the other which I procured just for the red-hot hell of it.

FIRST, THE TAIL TROUBLE: Although my evening clothes fit well enough overall, the rise seems a bit inadequate, even though they're a matched set. There is a small portion of the trousers' waistband which shows under the bottom edge of the tailcoat where the front face and the back tails meet. About an inch, I'd say. I know this is a no-no, and that my white pique waistcoat can't cover it, since it must not extend below my coat.

OPTION 1: I was advised on the AAAC forums that I should have the rise extended by deepening the *ahem* crotch (horrid word) and letting down the legs, a notion that seems sound, but then I'm no tailor and have no idea what this might do to the shape of the trouser if anything. Does this seem the best idea?

OPTION 2: I am also considering having M. Indy Magnoli make a new set of trousers with a higher rise to match my tailcoat. While he's a fine chap, and has laboured long and hard on some shirts and detachable collars for me, I've never had him cut anything else, let alone something so ticklish as evening trousers. What do you chaps think of this notion? I'm not so concerned with vintage here as I am with fit...

NEXT, THE FROCK FIASCO: My frock coat is very nicely made, but the waist is not nearly fitted enough for my taste. Of course, I'm reluctant to entrust alteration to a contemporary tailor, as it involves a lot of particular work - opening the skirt seam, adjusting the sides, and perhaps even the shoulders so as to prevent the collar from bowing in back as a result of the narrowed waist.

OPTION 1: Again, I'm thinking of having M. Magnoli's man cut me a new one. How well do you think he may rise to the occasion? I've heard good things, but only about 30s - 40s suits, never something this old and particular.

OPTION 2: I could take it to a contemporary tailor, but I don't know who I can trust over here - Any reasonable suggestions? (Don't say Knize - They wouldn't do it and I'd have to mortgage Belgium to afford it)

So there you have my dilemma, Gents. I trust myself to your wisdom. Please be candid, and until this muddle is over, I am,

Very Sincerely Yours,

Trevlin

 

[M Tatterscratch]

Postscript...

Ladies and Gents,

By rooting around on here, I've managed to learn a bit more about the trials and travails of the suit by mail (something I've never done before). Amazing what you can find when you're a member with a search function!

I should say that in my mail-order schemes for these two projects, I have tailor-taken measurements, and I can provide M. Magnoli with another well-worn but wonderfully-fitting frock coat as guidelines. That's a detail which may make a difference in your assessments, no doubt. The tails are another issue, as I can only provide him with the guilty coat and trousers, although even that may help.

Regards,

Trevlin

 

[Orgetorix]

With regard to the tails: Your torso is probably longer than that of the original owner for whom the suit was made. You need to find an experienced tailor who can advise you on the feasibility of Option 1. Skip Option 2 altogether--you will not be able to find a black cloth to match the fabric of the tailcoat, and the trousers must match the coat.

With regard to the frock coat: Find a good, conservative bespoke tailor--preferably an old one, but not necessarily. He won't have made any frock coats, but he may have made some morning coats which are similarly constructed in some ways, with the waist seam and all. I took my morning coat to a bespoke tailor in Washington DC who is quite young, and he did a great job with adding more waist suppression. The key is to find a tailor who either does bespoke or is very, very good at alterations. Not just your local lady who can do sleeves and cuffs and such.

Lastly, I'll just say this: be prepared to pay a bit. Your frock coat sounds like it could easily be at least 2-4 hours' worth of work, possibly more, and I'd expect to pay a good tailor $60-80 per hour here in the US. You may not have to pay Knize's rates, but good tailors aren't cheap, though the money is worth it. I spent more on alterations to my morning coat than I did on purchasing the whole outfit, and I'd do it again in an instant.

 

[M Tatterscratch]

M. Orgetorix,

Thank you for the advice. I had hoped that Indy might have the solution, but in my distress I didn't stop to consider the variance of fabric. You're right.

I don't yet have a reliable tailor in Frankfurt, I'm sorry to say. If anyone has any recommendations, I'm all ears.

I've routinely spent more on getting vintage outfits just so than I did in their initial purchase, so I'm fairly bulletproof when it comes to prices in the hundreds. It's when things start up into the thousands that I start getting nervous. And I'd never trust the local lady - she looks suspicious to me.

T.

 

[Orgetorix]

You might poke around on The London Lounge and see if anyone there has mentioned a tailor in Frankfurt. You could also do the same at Ask Andy, since you're already a member there.

 

[Orgetorix]

One other option: If you decide the evening suit just doesn't work for you and you want to try Indy Magnoli, you could try sending him the whole suit to be copied exactly, except for a higher trouser rise. Just a thought; I haven't gotten anything from Magnoli and can't recommend him one way or another.