Which religious group?

[LaMedicine]

And...I'm still looking for a Zen Baptist.

I was once told by my Buddhist priest friend that when European missionaries (Jesuits) first came to Japan in the 16thC, when they tried to preach and had theological discussions with the Japanese who actually were Buddhist priests, they were so surpised with the disucussion that resulted, that they thought the majority of Japanese were Protestants.lol lol lol

 

[Diamondback]

I do agree with Viola and Surely that Christians have in some sense co-opted parts of Judaism without fully understanding the wider frame of reference.
Of course this doesn't apply to the earliest followers of Christ who were, for the most part, Jews. There is ample scriptural discussion regarding the problems in the early Christian church that arose between those who wished to adhere more closely to Judaism and those who did not. A wider separation came about as more non-Judaic peoples were brought into the Christian fold. Still, the basis of Christianity arose from Judaic theology.

Some 2000 years later, many, but not all, adherents to Christiany do not have this basic understanding of the roots of their theology. Many may in fact begin and end at the birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of the Christ, who said that he came to minister to the Jews. In the Gibsonian view, all the Jews killed the Christ and that's that. It just isn't so. Nowhere in the Bible is this blanket assessment made. Nor can it be supported any more than it can be supported that all Southren sympathizers killed Abraham Lincoln or all Ku Klux Klan members killed Martin Luther King,

Christianity is deeply rooted in Judaism. The root, the Christ, was a JEW.

BINGO. Exactly why I mentioned the goal I've set--to understand anything fully, you must first understand the underlying foundations, and thus a full understanding of Christianity requires one to study and understand Judaism to place things in their proper context, at least IMO.

 

[Foofoogal]

Every time I see this thread, I say to myself that I am done commenting but I find it difficult to sit on my hands.

I hear this. I don't really think what I have tried to convey has even been scratched on this thread.
My Christianity is such that if I never walked into a church again or read one other word out of the Bible my basis for my faith is the manifestations or concrete miracles I have personally experienced and/or seen.
Miracles that have changed my life and/or saved my life.

 

[Gilbey]

I was not trying to be condemning or judgmental when I said what I said. I was simply reiterating what the bible states about the impending judgment. I certainly respect every one's belief and opinion around here because we are all different in many ways. This is a very sensitive subject and if I haven't approached this so cautiously, I apologize. I would want to say more, but I would also want to be in line with the lounge's guidelines as "not to put the bite on anyone."

 

[HamletJSD]

I had to vote "Protestant," though I am not 100% sure where I stand anymore ... guess I fall into that large category of people who were raised in church and then sometime during or after college figured out how nice it was to sleep in on Sundays ...
I still believe, but I go through cycles during which my questions outweigh the answers

 

[Rooster]

I just took a look in here again this morning. Interesting conversations.
I am getting freaked out about the numbers in the poll. The Godless are way ahead.....hard for me to grasp. I don't think I personally know anyone who doesn't believe in God. Maybe it's my life style, I don't know.[huh] I hang out with conservatives that like guns, hunting, and fishing.(Guns, God and Rock and Roll!lol ) Few of them attend church regularly.
As usual I'm way behind with what's going on in the world.[angel]

 

[K.D. Lightner]

As per what Samsa says, that is why I used the term when referring to the bible; the bible is often referred to as being a Judeo/Christian book.

It does not refer to people as far as I know. I certainly haven't meant any Judeo/Christians either.

karol

 

[deanglen]

I was not trying to be condemning or judgmental when I said what I said. I was simply reiterating what the bible states about the impending judgment. I certainly respect every one's belief and opinion around here because we are all different in many ways. This is a very sensitive subject and if I haven't approached this so cautiously, I apologize. I would want to say more, but I would also want to be in line with the lounge's guidelines as "not to put the bite on anyone."

Never thought you did, Gilbey, just wanted to clarify for all, including myself.

dean

 

[Viola]

I thought Judeo-Christian simply referred to the fact that the two religions (for the most part) share scripture in common - i.e., the Old Testament or Tanakh. And that the ethical systems of both religions are patterned around the Ten Commandments.

But nobody talks about Judeo-Islamic or Christian-Islamic culture as one homogenous mass. There's an understanding that while the root of the faiths are the same, each culture is diverse, distinct, and comes with its own beliefs/interpretations/background.

I'm certainly not arguing they're not all three Abrahamic or involve some similar base concepts. And I'd hate to be interpreted as deriding Christianity (or Islam) or something like that.

But, for instance, a lot of concepts I hear referred to in conversation as Judeo-Christian (not here, not calling anyone out) are totally alien to Judaism. Heaven and Hell, faith over works, etc. They're beautiful in the context of Christianity but when I hear them attributed as a thing "we all have" it, frankly, bugs.

Besides, I've heard three different versions of the Ten Commandments.

 

[Samsa]

But nobody talks about Judeo-Islamic or Christian-Islamic culture as one homogenous mass. There's an understanding that while the root of the faiths are the same, each culture is diverse, distinct, and comes with its own beliefs/interpretations/background.

I'm certainly not arguing they're not all three Abrahamic or involve some similar base concepts. And I'd hate to be interpreted as deriding Christianity (or Islam) or something like that.

But, for instance, a lot of concepts I hear referred to in conversation as Judeo-Christian (not here, not calling anyone out) are totally alien to Judaism. Heaven and Hell, faith over works, etc. They're beautiful in the context of Christianity but when I hear them attributed as a thing "we all have" it, frankly, bugs.

Besides, I've heard three different versions of the Ten Commandments.

As to the versions of the Ten Commandments, that has more to do with parsing and numbering the text. The basis for the "lists" that you see printed in devotional materials still come from the Bible directly; it's just that some groups number them differently.

I can understand your point re: Islam. They probably aren't included along with with the term "Judeo-Christian" because Islam was simply not a part of American (or Western) culture until relatively recently.

As to Heaven and Hell, isn't there difference of opinion between various sects (for lack of a better word) in Judaism? I know the Tanakh speaks of Sheol... though it is true that there is not exactly much mention of heaven. I am definitely too green when it comes to Judaism to speak definitively on any teaching, though, as I do not have access to a Talmud nor the time to decipher it. I did find the following article, though, which provides a good discussion:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=118&letter=I

 

[TraderRic]

"Mormon"

I'm the other "Mormon" in this poll. Not too many of us here it seems. We discourage the use of that term now-a-days. The official name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I'm not harping, just putting that out there for info. It doesn't bother me.

 

[surely]

cool!

 

[Viola]

As to Heaven and Hell, isn't there difference of opinion between various sects (for lack of a better word) in Judaism? I know the Tanakh speaks of Sheol... though it is true that there is not exactly much mention of heaven

Well, on any topic possible you can always assume there's a difference of opinion between various groups of Jews. Its what we do. The faith is not very rigid and there's always room for a good debate.

Please, some Jewish person yell "WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?!" lol

But there's no traditional perspective on eternal damnation. There's no equivalent to "non-believers burn" or anything like that.

It has always been accepted that you can be a righteous non-Jew, and thus partake in any afterlife goodies being handed out to anybody. (what exactly those rewards are, is one of those things subject to discussion)

The typical teaching is that truly evil people are snuffed out of existence as they die. Like "wow, you messed that up REALLY GOOD. Bye-bye now." but no eternal torment. We do not believe G-d does that.

 

[surely]

Reflecting on this thread led me to the word delusion. 2 a : something that is falsely believed or propagated b : a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary.

That led me to close my eyes and try to fully imagine what its like to think and to feel (what its like to adopt) one of the positions taken here that differs from my own.

I'm still processing

 

[carter]

Originally posted by Samsa
I did find the following article, though, which provides a good discussion:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...d=118&letter=I

A good article. We read that there were/are differences of opinion regarding resurrection and the immortality of the soul among other things among Jewish theologians, not just the Pharisees and the Saducees. We also read about influences from the Greeks. These opinions and discussions are ages old.

Then we come to the Christian Bible of which there are many versions in many languages. For a lengthy overview of this subject go to this website.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Originally posted by Diamondback
BINGO. Exactly why I mentioned the goal I've set--to understand anything fully, you must first understand the underlying foundations, and thus a full understanding of Christianity requires one to study and understand Judaism to place things in their proper context, at least IMO.

Such a study will take a lifetime for anyone but what a laudable goal. :eusa_clap

 

[surely]

processing outcome

In the beginning was IT
And IT thought unto Itself: who am I?
And IT answered: You are that who is IT
And IT thought: Is this all there Is?
And IT thought, yes that’s IT

And that’s the way IT was until IT thought:
I have all the Time and Space I need
So I’ll partition some for the Laws of Nature

And IT created a ball of the Laws of Nature
And threw it into the partitioned space time
Whereupon boom went the ball

And thus IT was until NOW

​

 

[Diamondback]

Such a study will take a lifetime for anyone but what a laudable goal. :eusa_clap

Yeah, but would it be worth doing otherwise? I'm with JFK, in that I "choose to do ... things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." I'm also an academic by nature, studying the living heck out of things is as natural for me as breathing... besides, I have nothing to lose except the time invested and possibly everything to gain...

 

[Samsa]

The typical teaching is that truly evil people are snuffed out of existence as they die. Like "wow, you messed that up REALLY GOOD. Bye-bye now." but no eternal torment. We do not believe G-d does that.

Perhaps I should have converted to Orthodox Judaism instead of Catholicism...

 

[Viola]

Perhaps I should have converted to Orthodox Judaism instead of Catholicism...

Heh, well, I don't know about that. One Catholic kid I knew took that concept, once he processed it for a little while, to mean I should go to church with him "just to be on the safe side, then. 'Cause then whoever's right you're okay."

 

[Samsa]

Heh, well, I don't know about that. One Catholic kid I knew took that concept, once he processed it for a little while, to mean I should go to church with him "just to be on the safe side, then. 'Cause then whoever's right you're okay."

Haha, well if I followed that line of reasoning then I would have to go to mosques, temples, etc. too. Which is a little intense. Of course Ramakrishna spent time practicing each religion...

I have always wanted to go to synagogue, though, just to observe. I have no idea however how insular the Orthodox and Hasidic communities are as far as strangers showing up goes.