Which Flat Head back design looks better?

[Marc mndt]

Maybe a little big for this guy.
View attachment 589972 View attachment 589973

It's not too big, it's a weirdly shaped pattern.

 

[Marc mndt]

Btw, do you have any opinions on aniline vs semi-aniline? I was always under the impression that semi meant sacrificing some beauty and aging for more durability.

Both are dyed all the way through but unlike full aniline semi-aniline has a small amount of pigment added to the dye which makes the color more uniform. I don't think there's any difference in durability.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I got a question for the new Flat Head leathers. How soft is it? The one on the half belt looks like it still needs a bit of break in the way the back folds, but the other one looks a lot softer the way it creases. If I just let the jacket sit down normally would it collapse like naked leather or would it stand or somewhere in between?

I think with all jackets, Japanese or not, it's best to try them on in person before purchase if possible, especially when they're over 2k. Unless you know for sure the person modelling the jacket has the exact build as you, then it also works. Pre-ordering expensive jacket have a very high risk low return yield. Like new on the used market is where the value is at. Even when it doesn't work out it's less of a blow to the wallet... Plus, what's the difference between a like new jacket that has been tried on a few times versus a new jacket hanging in the store that has been tried on a few times by different customer?

I also think you would need one of each style. Bottom cinch fits very different than a cinch that is higher up. When in doubt, go for a walk or run to clear the mind, and is easy on the wallet and also good for health.

 

[Marc mndt]

I visited TFH store in Tokyo, their Shinki leather was the most beautiful I had ever seen. It was softer than any other horsehide I had ever felt, including Shinki from other brands.

It might just be me but I personally do not see the out of this world nicer than nice leather. I've handled this one at one of their stockist, the leather looked shiny but the color looked rather flat. I've also visited their Tokyo store but I don't remember their leather to stand out in one way or another.

 

[torfjord]

To my untrained eyes they both have very Japanes issues.

Start with that and then goes on to demonstrate a very very trained eye. Dropping absolute truth bombs.

 

[Carlos840]

Start with that and then goes on to demonstrate a very very trained eye. Dropping absolute truth bombs.

Ok, trained but out of practice...

 

[cbez]

I don't think it's useful to talk about one brands leather with a big brush. They are constantly putting out diff makeups depending on what they get from shinki and other tanneries that season. There is not as much variation as with say Viberg but it's still changing.

 

[Carlos840]

I think even the ‘Japanese body’ explanation that fans of this cut throw out doesn’t hold, being Asian and having spent much of my life there. To suit the A-shaped cut from Fine Creek (or even the Japanese versions of western makers like Lewis), you would have to be simultaneously very weak and small in the upper body, but then have a big beer belly. I think it is purely a fad pushed by Lightning magazine.

In the case of Fine Creek, you’d need to be 6’4 with a 36” chest and a 42” waist! Someone posted a jacket here recently and it genuinely looked worse than a fashion jacket from Zara or H&M, from the saggy bag shape to the completely limp lapels; the leather looked like pleather, even though I’m sure it’s technically some expensive Shinki. Tbh the Zara types probably have a better pattern.

As I mentioned in another thread, a slim Japanese friend in Tokyo was talked into getting the Japanese “Tight” fit by Lewis, instead of the classic Lewis fit, and now he’s stuck with a baggy bottom block he’s had to find a leather tailor to correct.

It doesn't excuse everything, but there is definitely a difference in shoulder width between the average Japanese man and the average American and that has to have an influence on pattern differences:

 

[cbez]

I think part of it is also when western stockists order patterns that just get sloppy adaptations. Like just make it longer in the body and sleeves without adjusting overall.

 

[Marc mndt]

I don't think it's useful to talk about one brands leather with a big brush.

Except for 'the fc hides' I guess?

BTW I have owned the dead leaf freewheelers too and while it was a beautiful leather I prefer the fc hides to it as well.

 

[Aloysius]

It doesn't excuse everything, but there is definitely a difference in shoulder width between the average Japanese man and the average American and that has to have an influence on pattern differences:

Definitely. But what I mean is while that would explain, say, RMC sizing it wouldn’t explain the FCL A-cut.

 

[Carlos840]

Definitely. But what I mean is while that would explain, say, RMC sizing it wouldn’t explain the FCL A-cut.

Agreed, that's why i also mentioned Japanese fashion aesthetics, i think it's a combination of the two.
I think these shapes are more recent in Japanese leather brands, when we first started talking about Japanese brands 10 years ago it wasn't that common.
I might be wrong, but i don't remember seeing these overly long baggy jackets when we first started seeing RMC and Freewheelers jackets for example. It's only in most recent years with Fine Creek, Addict clothing and all these more recent brands that these weird shapes started appearing.

When i think of Japanese fashion i think oversized and straight lines, maybe these modern brands where trying to fit the current Japanese aesthetics more, compared to the old brands that where more Americana and where going for reproductions rather than modern interpretations.

I mean to me these jackets are the same vibe as these suits:

 

[Carlos840]

Here, to me what we are seeing in current Japanese leather jackets is this vibe applied to leather:

 

[Aloysius]

Agreed, that's why i also mentioned Japanese fashion aesthetics, i think it's a combination of the two.
I think these shapes are more recent in Japanese leather brands, when we first started talking about Japanese brands 10 years ago it wasn't that common.
I might be wrong, but i don't remember seeing these overly long baggy jackets when we first started seeing RMC and Freewheelers jackets for example. It's only in most recent years with Fine Creek, Addict clothing and all these more recent brands that these weird shapes started appearing.

When i think of Japanese fashion i think oversized and straight lines, maybe these modern brands where trying to fit the current Japanese aesthetics more, compared to the old brands that where more Americana and where going for reproductions rather than modern interpretations.

I mean to me these jackets are the same vibe as these suits:

Basically this A cut was astroturfed by Lightning Magazine (FCL is very close to them). It’s sort of a weird combination of the late 2010s bad Japanese pattern type (undersized in all dimensions) and the new oversized fashion at the same time, so it’s a hyper tight chest with baggy stomach. At least the undersized pattern made sense because Japanese are small and story; the new type is just weird lol.

Buzz Rickson’s has never bought into this nonsense thankfully.

 

[cbez]

Except for 'the fc hides' I guess?

Fc is more consistent with a specific style of HH for their brand altho they are branching out lately too with more finely grained stuff.

 

[jeo]

I own the SRJ-04. Bought it used off of YAJ. Not sure if it’s a different cut than the current version which has a different model number. I love it.

The cut is wide shoulders that are rotated forward, small front chest panels especially at armpit level, under the armpit there’s actually decent space, flare out starting at waist level into the hips coming from the side panel mostly but also a tiny bit from the bottom part of the back panel below the half belt (this will come down past most people’s natural waist so the flare out is needed to be able to zip up the jacket. If it hits someone’s natural waist the flare out would look terrible), v shape in the back and it has a front drop. Here’s what it looks like when I just dropped it on the floor. Looks A shaped 2D, it isn’t. It’s unzipped and that side panel curvature is pushing/flaring out those front panels. See zipped on flat on ground.

Here’s how it fits on me. Not perfect by any means but it’s a pretty damn good fit for me. Any bigger in the shoulder it’ll start to droop unflatteringly and my armpit is eating into the chest pocket a bit. It’s not that it’s a small chest measurement. It’s a size 36 and it has a 19” chest measurement and I have a 34” chest. It’s the way the armhole is cut that is not allowing much room at the chest pocket level for that front panel. My Field Leather has kind of the same issue.

I tried to capture the most straight on view both standing up straight and slouching. I also included a different angle with my phone angled downwards which can distort the view a bit. I’m doing this because most people carefully select and stage their pictures, myself included.

Standing up straight.

Slouching

Standing straight side view unzipped

Slouching side view unzipped

Zipped up

Standing straight unzipped

Standing straight zipped

Unzipped slouched which would be the worst looking.

I’ll include more pics and angles.

 

[jeo]

More downward angle on my phone. Maybe this isn’t making much of a difference.

Please let me know if you would like to see any more angles.

 

[jeo]

Weird shape? You tell me.

One thing I can say, for sure is that the models, for both of those jackets are exactly the wrong person to model them.

I do not have any experience with the other model, but that one seems to fit less people. In fact, the very first image I’ve seen of that one was probably the best one I’ve seen to this day. Here it is. Looks great but I can pick this apart as well if I wanted to.

 

[cbez]

I think it looks good. The back panels seem roomy but I like that it doesn't have the absurd bunching up in the smaller of the back. Fits with way more 'issues' get praised in other threads.

The back lines def work to create a V visual and probably help the toilet paper roll shaped among us achieve that look.

I don't see any wasted space in the midsection/ huge beer belly room like people insist japan patterns have. Its just a longer fit.

 

[jeo]

When I think of Japanese jackets, I think of the big three, which to me is The Real McCoys, The Flat Head and Freewheelers.

The Flathead and Feewheelers are somewhat similar in the wide shoulders and not a big chest. Freewheelers is a bit different as they have a bit more room because they cut their armholes different. They have another weird issue altogether with the curve they build into the top shoulder seam that creates a “rounded over the shoulder look” that is meant to emulate the way a jacket breaks in and how the shoulder rounds out. Not all their models have that. It’s there in the Mulholand too but it’s way less drastic than say the Caboose or LaBrea. Both FH and FW have flare outs at the hip. The FW stuff can be more exaggerated and look a bit feminine like my Caboose and I’ve noticed that on the San Mateo as well. I actually don’t mind the corset look.

With a lot of the FW stuff, especially the Caboose and the La Brea if you have a big chest, that’s pushing out that chest panel and the shoulders are not perfect i.e. long or drooping over, it could create those shoulder creases.

All of the A shaped jackets that are spoken about are the newer brands. They are even more specific to get a good fit. It’s pretty hard to get them to look good but just like the other Japanese stuff they can look great.

Some of the RMC models can look more tubular than the flathead and freewheelers which are more V shaped. Tenjin works is the same exact cut as my FH I just showed btw. RC Herc is longer just like the original, but it’s more narrow so it can look long on some or perfect. Only ever had their G-1 besides the Herc so I cannot speak for other models.