Where to get old west hats like in the movie Tombstone?

[danofarlington]

To complete the look what do you think would match for accurate tombstone era pants and shirts?

I know it's obviously not a pair of wrangler jeans and plaid wrangler shirt lol..

Seems like they wore more dress wear.. and had some very nice shirts with banded collars etc..

'Course you'll need your vest with a gold watch chain.

 

[gtdean48]

To complete the look what do you think would match for accurate tombstone era pants and shirts?
...

Try Wahmaker for that style of clothing...here's 1 seller.
http://www.westernemporium.com/wahm...ign=wahmaker&gclid=CJbV54DE6qECFVhJ2godnmL7KA

 

[Woodfluter]

As to your question about real hats worn in the 1800's, actual photos from the cattle drives during the 20 years or so that comprised the cattle drove period hardly show any hats with creases that match up with the basic cattleman's (LBJ) crease that became so popular during the recent 'urban cowboy' period. The basic cattleman crease (there are numerous small variations) has become firmly entrenched as the 'only' cowboy hat thanks to country music and mass media in general.

Cowboy hats in movies during the 1950's (prior to the cattleman's crease popularity) sport pinched front c-crowns; there are some like that from the 1800's photos, but there would only be one or two in a large group with a crease like that. In truth, the hat styles and crease styles were all over the place - there were plenty of 'cowboys' sporting bowlers - much more diversity than the currently popular cattleman crease style.

John is right on target I think. Scott is right too about the Cattleman crease or something like it being common back to the 1920's but not at all typical at the tail end of the 19th century. I've looked at many old photos of that era, from old albums in my family and stuff in antique shops and books and online - no shortage of resources. So I'm consistently amazed at what Hollywood comes up with for period costuming. It is so far off the mark in almost every case that it seems driven primarily by current expectations or a sense of the dramatic. Hat creases, brim widths, all of that was all over the place and mostly not what we'd currently call "cowboy" or "western".

On a more constructive note, the "telescope" crown or whatever you might call it was pretty common in old photos, and you can approach the look of hats in "Tombstone" using any black western hat with a tall, fairly straight crown. Here's what I ended up doing with an Akubra Rodeo I got on eBay:





I trimmed the brim a bit narrower than those in the movies, but closer to many in the photos I've seen. If you want the brim to be dead-flat and wide like in Tombstone, I think you'll need to have a good fit - long ovals will have a problem with regular oval hats which will end up dipping a bit fore and aft. You may have noticed pictures of Navajo and Apache wearing flat-brimmed hats that seemed to dip a bit on the sides - because American Indians tend to be more brachycephalic - round headed. Custom maker would fix you up I'm sure.

- Bill

 

[zeus36]

I became a member of the California Gunfighters group after the movie came out and picked up some close enough duds to do a fair Wyatt Earp.

WahMaker takes museum pieces and makes reproductions based off the actual
articles of clothing. I wear their Frock coat and several vests. Check them out for some great period clothes that are well built:

http://www.gentlemansemporium.com/wah-maker.php


I'm pretty sure Resistol Hat Co. provided the custom hats for the actors, but

I bought a repo from the Flying Cloud Hat Co. that is close to the Wyatt Earp model, but not quite as high.

The Knudsen Hats Company looks like it will do the trick for you. They are making some sweet repos of the Tombstone hats.

JR. Reyes made the boots for the film, but I don't know if he is still in business. I meet him at a SoCal gunshow a few years after the film came out.
T. Christensen from Early Times Leather Co. was also there. He made some of the holsters and spur straps for the movie, but he has passed away since then.

Island Girl Productions did some of the costumes for the extras and the shirt worn by Johnny Ringo when Doc shot him. (she was also at the show), but I can't find any web info on the company.

I still see Peter Sherayko (Texas Jack Vermillion) at the shows. I can ask him if he can recommend any hat makers that do the film repos.

 

[ScottF]

I bought a repo from the Flying Cloud Hat Co. that is close to the Wyatt Earp model, but not quite as high.

They repo hats? That explains the shady character following me around the other day.

Speaking of cattleman's creases, I agree with flute that it wasn't a popular crease back in the Earps' day, but here's a trendsetter:

 

[The Good]

They repo hats? That explains the shady character following me around the other day.

Speaking of cattleman's creases, I agree with flute that it wasn't a popular crease back in the Earps' day, but here's a trendsetter:

I have to ask, when is this photograph dated from? 1870s, 1880s, or 1890s?

 

[Pilgrim]

A hundred hours of scouring websites ought to do it. But you still might not find one, and might be best off custom-ordering such a thing from one of the hat makers. Seems like most of the big retailers have a lot of "stock" hats like The Gambler, the Gangster, the Plantation Owner, and so on, and what you are seeking may not be among them. I may have seen it on one or another site, but I foresee a lot of screen time before hitting on that hat.

I clicked the first one: http://www.thelastbestwest.com/western_movie_hats.htm


DOGGONE IT - - I've already spent nearly an hour going through link after link and page after page on that site.

That is SOME website!!

 

[KY Gentleman]

River Junction Trade Co.

 

[Woodfluter]

They repo hats? That explains the shady character following me around the other day.

Speaking of cattleman's creases, I agree with flute that it wasn't a popular crease back in the Earps' day, but here's a trendsetter:

Hat repo men? Now that's a movie plot.

Good picture Scott, and I'm not entirely sure of the date, but would guess 1890s or first decade of 1900s based on the collar and suit details? I could be wrong.

Here's a picture of Wyatt Earp (2nd from left in front) and some of his pals, taken only a couple of years after the shootout in Tombstone:



The picture is often captioned as representing Dodge City lawmen, but that's quite wide of the mark. The photo was taken in 1883 and labeled "Dodge City Peace Commission", a bit of intentional humor. They were all friends of Luke Short (2nd from left in back), and included ex-lawmen and others who were associated with the "Gang" faction that wanted to keep Dodge pretty freewheeling, in opposition to the "Reform" faction that recently won the election and wanted to run the saloons and bagnios themselves.

There had been an altercation involving arrest of Luke's working women and some pointless shooting at the sherrif, in consequence of which Mr Short was locked up and his business closed. The Peace Commission was successful in that their mere appearance in town and reputation as gunmen resulted in Short's release and dropping of charges. The photo was taken in celebration of that event.

This is likely to give a pretty fair representation of what Earp and others were wearing in the Tombstone years. The only hat with a brim wide enough to qualify as "western" in modern terms is worn by Neil Brown, far right in front. I'd guesstimate that the brims on the other five soft hats were around three inches and often less. Two of them, including Bat Masterson (back, 2nd from right) favored derbys.

Notice the crowns. I'm not entirely sure that any of them had intentional creases at all. Frank McLain's (front, 2nd from right) might have had a telescope or "gambler" type crease, but might just be shoved in.

This is very typical of what I've seen in photos of the era. So what did the "cowboys" (a disparaging term at the time) wear? Very much the same. Possibly hard-wearing trousers if they could get them, but generally worn-out bits and pieces of suits. Banded shirt buttoned up to the top at almost all times. Sometimes even a necktie.

So if you're making a movie, all you have to do is actually look at the photos to get details right. I suspect that the public is so conditioned by what they've seen on screen that they'd find it difficult to accept an accurate portrayal.

Speaking of which, a few random tidbits of trivia:

1. The "Buntline Special" probably never existed as such. Colt made a few long-barreled revolvers, mostly for exhibitions, but the whole story seems to be a fabrication of one author.

2. At the "OK Corral" gunfight (which didn't take place at said location but in and near a vacant lot next to Fly's photographic business) Wyatt Earp carried a Smith and Wesson .44 - in a specially made greatcoat pocket!

3. After the event, Doc Holliday went up to his room above Fly's, sat on the bed, wept and said "it was awful".

4. Later on in life, Earp apparently favored a homburg. Even in the wilds of Alaska.

 

[danofarlington]

This is likely to give a pretty fair representation of what Earp and others were wearing in the Tombstone years. The only hat with a brim wide enough to qualify as "western" in modern terms is worn by Neil Brown, far right in front. I'd guesstimate that the brims on the other five soft hats were around three inches and often less. Two of them, including Bat Masterson (back, 2nd from right) favored derbys.

I think the interesting part is to note how styles change from decade to decade. In the Civil War era and in the 1870s, you seem to have a lot of flamboyant wide-brim hats, designed to fill up space, as part of a Western or even military costume. Like George A. Custer. By contrast in the Wyat Earp photo above, you have short-brim hats except for one, and that one looks anachronistic compared to the other hats in the photo. So apparently we have a style change in the brim from wide and floppy in the 1860s and 70s, to short and stiff in the 1880s. The process of moderniazation had begun. Brims seemed to get somewhat wider by the 1900s and 1910s (Rough Riders type hats and others), but they never got as wide as they were some decades earlier.

 

[Woodfluter]

I think the interesting part is to note how styles change from decade to decade....

Good observations Dano. Looking back from a distance, I think we forget that styles were quite dynamic.

With regard to the hats, I suspect there were also some regional influences early on - wide brimmed floppy hats seen in Remington's drawings and paintings from the Mexican influence. Many of the hats were floppy (sometimes reinforced at the brim with lacing) because they were cheap felt - I've heard. Stetson changed that picture because folks in remote places could now order a factory-made hat at a feasible price, of better quality.

I also think that we have an impression, from the movies and TV, that there was some common "western" style. To an extent there was, in that some of the drovers (the most common term used for "cowboys" in the 1870s-80s) got fairly flamboyant in their dress and outfits, but most folks in the west looked like folks in the east at the same period. Those involved in moving cattle around were a minority.

 

[DBLIII]

jaxonbilthats, as someone already posted. Ritch Rand custom hats in Montana. My favorite is Colorado Mountain Hat Company in Fairplay, CO.

If you don't want to spend the custom $$$ that these cost, Stetson just issued an "old west" line from their hat group that has buffalo (bison) fur in them. The quality really is pretty good, I was surprised as Stetson has been kind of down for a while. I don't know how many they are doing, but in western Missouri, these hats are available at bigger western store. Google Kleinschmidt's in Higginsville, MO. I bought a Stetson Bat Masterson bison hat there a couple weeks ago. Plan to go back and pick up at least one more of the series, they do match the old photos pretty well. Very much "vintage old west" looking.

Unfortunately, really doesn't match my Browning Hi-Power very well. I have got to get a Colt single action army....

Adding: Amazon used to sell a book called "I See By Your Outfit..." that's photos of cowboys from the very late 1800s with the authors' comments on where the clothing and gear came from. As others have said here, the old time cowboy hat looks nothing like what's in the movies (except for more period correct films like Open Range).

 

[ScottF]

Good observations Dano. Looking back from a distance, I think we forget that styles were quite dynamic.

With regard to the hats, I suspect there were also some regional influences early on...

Not only that, but westerns could be subdivided into functional and dress. The guys in your photos are mostly wearing dress westerns. The wide-brim hats (influenced by Mexican sombreros) were much more functional outside of town.

 

[ScottF]

I have to ask, when is this photograph dated from? 1870s, 1880s, or 1890s?

Probably the latter, just based on the photo mount.

 

[Salty O'Rourke]

Good deal if you've got a big melon

Here's one that you can snap up at a good price if it's the right size.

 

[Richard Warren]

1890's hats

For a very nice view of what hats looked like in the 1890's, look at this link which contains catalog images ScottF was kind enough to post.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=47775&highlight=montgomery

 

[jwalls]

Those of you who watch Westerns with an eye for hats will remember the derby that the U.S. Marshal is wearing when he meets Wyatt at the train. I have one antique 1880's block for that hat style. Wish I could find a full set.

 

[1961MJS]

...In the Civil War era and in the 1870s, you seem to have a lot of flamboyant wide-brim hats, designed to fill up space, as part of a Western or even military costume. Like George A. Custer. ...

Hi

According to several of the Little Big Horn and other Custer books, Ole George was very fair skinned. He needed the big hat so as to not burn his skin off. Not that he wasn't flamboyant. He wore a shell jacket with both Federal rank with a Navy Midshipman's shirt worn so that the collar was over the shell jacket. He also wore his hair LONG so that he would make some Indian a GOOD SCALP.

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/union-generals/custer/custers-last-stand.htm

From what I could find, he didn't wear the Confederate swirly deals. (Whoops). I think that they called them Galloons or something similar.

Personally, I like the hat Longstreet wears in Gettysburg.

Later

 

[ScottF]

Hi

...He also wore his hair LONG so that he would make some Indian a GOOD SCALP.

Later

But not at Little Big Horn - his hair was cropped short, and he was left un-scalped. A recent biography (that looks pretty good) goes into the morbid details.

 

[danofarlington]

Hi

According to several of the Little Big Horn and other Custer books, Ole George was very fair skinned. He needed the big hat so as to not burn his skin off. Not that he wasn't flamboyant. He wore a shell jacket with both Federal rank and Confederate swirly deals on his arms, with a Navy Midshipman's shirt worn so that the collar was over the shell jacket. He also wore his hair LONG so that he would make some Indian a GOOD SCALP.

Personally, I like the hat Longstreet wears in Gettysburg.

Later

That would be interesting to see.