Where do you wear morning wear?

[Edward]

I'd be interested to know under what circumstances you would wear the stroller. I (perhaps erroneously) tend to think of the stroller as formal business wear and associate it with Captain Mainwaring at his bank or diplomats and politicians.

Would you wear it outside of a business environment?

A

It's basicaly the equivalent of black tie, for wear for daytime functions, pre 6pm. Back in the 30s and forties, it would have been considered appropriate business wear, a rung above the lounge suit, then viewed as something rather more casual. This was, of course, the era when mechanics would have been seen wearing collar and tie underneather their overalls....

I'm not sure that I would wear it in day to day business circumstances; I'm already significantly more formal in my appearance than many or even most people in academic circles. But for daywear at events where I would typically tend towards black tie were they to be in the evening, I might well adopt it. Graduation ceremonies, some weddings, etc. Obviously the look can be 'softened' somewhat by one's choice of shirt (collar style), going with a regular four in hand instead of something more cravat like, and so on.

I find it easier to wear a frock coat than morning dress, as people just think a frock coat is an overcoat..

Interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense. I have mixed feeling about frockcoats myself; being rather less svelte than once I was, I find the square fronted frock coat can cut me off at the knees and exaggerate my midriff, whereas the graceful in and out swoop of the front of a morning coat is much more flattering. I do however think you have a good point about a rock coat being more able to blend in, as it were, in contemporary society.

 

[Smithy]

Looks like you're either going to have to get into the geegees or get put up for a club Edward if you want to wear morning dress on a regular basis Edward

I'm with you though, I think it's a real shame with the decline of morning suit for formal day wear.

 

[Lokar]

Interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense. I have mixed feeling about frockcoats myself; being rather less svelte than once I was, I find the square fronted frock coat can cut me off at the knees and exaggerate my midriff, whereas the graceful in and out swoop of the front of a morning coat is much more flattering. I do however think you have a good point about a rock coat being more able to blend in, as it were, in contemporary society.

Yes, unless you have the waist for a frock coat, it's not the most flattering. However, a single breasted frock worn unbuttoned can look wonderful. If you have high waisted trousers and a short waistcoat, it makes your legs look wonderfully long, and whenever you perform any sharp movement the way it flows looks remarkably elegant. Or, so I've seen on videos anyway - I have yet to find a well fitting single breasted frock.

Oh, and I personally don't really like satin faced frock coats - I like leaving satin facing for evening wear.

 

[LaMedicine]

Totally fftopic: I know, but couldn't resist because of Chasseur's posts
April 2004, Turtle Bay, O'ahu. I posted these in another thread, but anyhow. My hubby's niece and her American groom. Incidentally, the bride expicitly forbid her father to wear formal attire, so he wore a dark suit while the mother wore a kimono that is second in line of formality. The bustier of the bride's dress was actually a two piece affair, the bustier and stole made from a borcade obi, the stiff silk kimono sash, and the skirt silk satin.

 

[John in Covina]

Business expertise in the high end.
The morning coat makes me think of instances from movies. In some movies it is worn by the owner manager of a high end shop like the gormet store in "Love Happy" or going back a bit in W.C. Fields "International House" Franklin Pangborn is the hotel manager and as representative to the public is well attired in a morning suit.

 

[bbshriver]

Here's a semi-related question.

I'm getting married next year, and it's a 2pm wedding, with a reception from 5-10pm.

Since 6pm is supposed to be the cutoff from day to evening wear, how does that work?

Would you dress according to when the event starts, or when it ends?

 

[Lokar]

You dress according to the beginning time. Wearing morning wear after 6pm if you are at the same event is perfectly acceptable, wearing evening wear before 6pm never is.

 

[Chasseur]

fftopic: I know...

Lamedicine,

Thanks for the photos from Turtle Bay, I saw those on the other thread. I like the idea of using an old kimono for the busiter and good to see the groom not in white!

Generally what I've noticed here is that the few weddings with nice outfits for the groom tend to be Japanese, sometimes morning dress, other times kimono and hakama, sometimes a nice frockcoat.

 

[Edward]

You dress according to the beginning time. Wearing morning wear after 6pm if you are at the same event is perfectly acceptable, wearing evening wear before 6pm never is.

Yip, I'm on board with that. There was a time when grooms would, I understand, change, but it is entirely acceptable (and wholly the norm) nowadays to wear daywear into the evening if the event extendspast 6pm.

 

[Edward]

Looks like you're either going to have to get into the geegees or get put up for a club Edward if you want to wear morning dress on a regular basis Edward

I'm with you though, I think it's a real shame with the decline of morning suit for formal day wear.

Maybe it's time I started my own club.... lol

 

[Chasseur]

Hey edward are your membership standards lax, if so I'd be happy to be your first member!:fedora:

 

[Edward]

Yes, unless you have the waist for a frock coat, it's not the most flattering. However, a single breasted frock worn unbuttoned can look wonderful. If you have high waisted trousers and a short waistcoat, it makes your legs look wonderfully long, and whenever you perform any sharp movement the way it flows looks remarkably elegant. Or, so I've seen on videos anyway - I have yet to find a well fitting single breasted frock.

Same problems as modern loung suit jackets - low armholes, boxy shape....

Oh, and I personally don't really like satin faced frock coats - I like leaving satin facing for evening wear.

Oh, absolutely. Satin and grodgrain facings are for evening wear only - wholly incorrect for daywear.

 

[Lokar]

Same problems as modern loung suit jackets - low armholes, boxy shape....

Oh, all of my body coats are true vintage. I've just only ever seen one sb frock (while I've seen about 10 db).

Oh, absolutely. Satin and grodgrain facings are for evening wear only - wholly incorrect for daywear.

The strange thing is, some frock coats have satin facing, yet I was under the impression the frock coat was only day wear. I suppose it being purely for evening wear was just an evolution from after the Victorian Era.

Maybe it's time I started my own club.... lol

If I ever move back to England, count me in.

 

[Yeps]

Would you dress according to when the event starts, or when it ends?

If I dressed appropriately to the time events ended, I would always being going places in pajamas.

 

[bbshriver]

Thanks for the suggestions.

In all honesty I may claim host's privilege and just do what I like better at the time.

However, thanks to this thread I think we're going to put somewhere in the invitation to encourage formal attire. I figure most people my age will probably not go beyond a "lounge suit" but hopefully minimize the khaki and golf-shirt crowd. Plus if someone's been looking for an excuse to dust off that Armani tux, they'll have a chance!

If I dressed appropriately to the time events ended, I would always being going places in pajamas.

 

[Edward]

If I dressed appropriately to the time events ended, I would always being going places in pajamas.

I could be arrested if I did that!

Oh, all of my body coats are true vintage. I've just only ever seen one sb frock (while I've seen about 10 db).

For some reason, I associate the sb with being more like the equivalent of the suitcoat, and the DB more of an outer layer, almost more like a covert coat. I'm sure that's not accurate, though i have an inkling that the sb might have been onsidered the more formal. I may, however, be drawing that presumption based on the Victorian and later morning coat, always sb, and the evening tailcoat (with buttons that suggest DB, but more akin to sb in cut, and certainly never worn closed).

The strange thing is, some frock coats have satin facing, yet I was under the impression the frock coat was only day wear. I suppose it being purely for evening wear was just an evolution from after the Victorian Era.

Interesting.... the only ones I've seen like that were, I believe, more overcoats, designed to be worn over the top of white tie in the evening.... I could well be wrong again, though, here..... Of course, I'm also sure that there were plenty of atypical examples back then that didn't fit with the accepted dress code, just as today.

If ever the moey comes through, I'll establish the Marlowe Men's Club.... I'm not sure I'd accept my own membership, though.... in a reversal of the Marxist (as in Groucho) position, I don't know if I'm the type I'd want to have associated with it.... surely it should be for cool people? lol

 

[metropd]

Until recently I have worn full morning dress to stroll the town. Now that my top hat is to used I don't. Once I get my new top hat I will be back to strolling around town, going to the coffee shops talking about matters of substance an wearing my full morning dress. I always preferred a tall bell curve silk plush top hat, morning coat, and DB waistcoat for strolling the town than I do in a fedora and suit.

 

[Lokar]

For some reason, I associate the sb with being more like the equivalent of the suitcoat, and the DB more of an outer layer, almost more like a covert coat. I'm sure that's not accurate, though i have an inkling that the sb might have been onsidered the more formal. I may, however, be drawing that presumption based on the Victorian and later morning coat, always sb, and the evening tailcoat (with buttons that suggest DB, but more akin to sb in cut, and certainly never worn closed).

My understanding is that the double breasted was more formal - photographs (and the abundance of frock coats in the Paget Holmes illustrations) of weddings and more formal occasions show double breasted, while less formal occasions are single breasted. Also, when the frock coat was near death as it was seen as "hyper formal", single breasted was all that was around - the double breasted had long died out.

I believe top frocks were generally single breasted, although I may be mistaken. The further back you go, the harder it is to know with any degree of certainty how things were. If only the camera had become common and inexpensive early in the Victorian Era. I love everything about it..

Interesting.... the only ones I've seen like that were, I believe, more overcoats, designed to be worn over the top of white tie in the evening.... I could well be wrong again, though, here..... Of course, I'm also sure that there were plenty of atypical examples back then that didn't fit with the accepted dress code, just as today.

They do appear to be very uncommon. My understanding regarding top frocks, however, is that they had satin bands around the arms, and a black (and I think, velvet - not the same cloth as the rest of the coat, at least) collar, regardless of the colour of the rest of the coat. The lapels were the same cloth as the suit, of course.

The Brett Holmes series is shockingly accurate (I suppose because they tried to have at least one of the Paget illustrations represented perfectly in each episode) - they even bought silk top hats for the main characters. They made some mistakes, but not many. I'd kill for some of their wardrobe...

 

[Edward]

Interesting that DBs were the more formal... compared to black tie evening wear, where db is the least formal.

I do like the old Victorian and Edwardian daywear too. It seems to me that from the Victorian era onwards there was very little change in formal daywear, other than the vagaries of cut, and, alas, its increasing rarity.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Reviving this thread after more than a decade.

As to when & where to wear morning wear in this day & age: I'm a grand lodge officer in my fraternity and I'm thinking that a morning coat with striped pants and all accessories might be a nice way to dial it up a bit. Not really essential, but my role as grand rep has me acting as a de facto ambassador for my mother jurisdiction to another. My first big event is scheduled for June 2021, COVID pandemic circumstances permitting. Thus, I have time to plan this out and have everything properly tailored.