When was the C crown created?

[BobHufford]

Maximum Max please.

 

[moontheloon]

It's a nice idea for a thread on oral histories. Max would have been in his mid twenties in the mid 1950s - the tail end of the era, but of course we won't have live reports from much earlier than that. My Dad is 91 and we talk about hats a bunch. He has always paid attention to style. He wears a size smaller than me - I love finding a nice hat for him. My father-in-law is 97. I don't remember ever seeing a photo of him in a hat. His father was a NYC tailor who was involved in the fashion industry. He was partners with Philip Mangone. He was an elegant man. I would have loved to see some of his hats.

I'd love to hear some of the things your dad has to say

Max told me during our first meeting years ago that his dad took him for his first hat at the age of 14 in 1944 ... he has never been without a hat since

 

[TheDane]

I know a man named Max Steiner who grew up in Brooklyn but now resides in Jersey City ...
he is 86 years young ... and sharp as a tack

I would absolutely love a Max-thread! My dad was 8 years older than Max, and he unfortunately past away around the time, my more intensive hat interest hit. Today I sorely regret, we didn't have more hat talks.

He "second jobbed" as a theatre technician and prop-maker. Working theatre myself when he was still alive, I had an idea about interviewing him to tape about theatre technics from before semiconductors, computers and moving lights totally changed the business. I never got around to doing the interviews, and now there are no one left from that generation. Unfortunately very few ever thought of documenting details on early theatre tech.

A Max-thread could turn out to be a priceless asset to the hat community.

 

[moontheloon]

I would absolutely love a Max-thread! My dad was 8 years older than Max, and he unfortunately past away around the time, my more intensive hat interest hit. Today I sorely regret, we didn't have more hat talks.

He "second jobbed" as a theatre technician and prop-maker. Working theatre myself when he still lived, I had an idea about interviewing him to tape about theatre technics from before semiconductors, computers and moving lights totally changed the business. I never got around to doing the interviews, and now there are no one left from that generation. Unfortunately very few ever thought of documenting details on early theatre tech.

A Max-thread could turn out to be a priceless asset to the hat community.

you've inspired me to possibly start that thread ...

I'll be trying to get all these interviews up ... some are on cassette believe it or not ... some are in files scattered all over multiple external drives ... some were lost when my old Mac crashed and burned ... and some are on my phone ...
I need to start to gather them

i talked to a 97 year old man named Ernest from Queens a few years back ... he had some amazing stories ... I hope his interview was not one of those lost on the Mac

... and I would have loved to hear what your dad would have had to say about theatre techniques pre "technology"
that would have been amazing

 

[jswindle2]

I am a history fanatic,so the relatively small detail of when the C or Teardrop crown crease appeared is as interesting as anything that occurred in the past,to me.Just as a Muy Mucho Max thread or any person's remembrances of the past through their eyes would be very interesting.

 

[Rogera]

I know a man named Max Steiner who grew up in Brooklyn but now resides in Jersey City ...
he is 86 years young ... and sharp as a tack
I met Max on one of my excursions maybe 6 or 7 years ago when my quest for the history of hats and those who wore them at a time when they were an everyday accessory started ...
I had planned to write a book called Hats of Old New York ...I conducted probably 100 interviews and accumulated over 200 pictures ....
that project has since taken a back seat to my family and career ... I also lost much of my research in a recent computer crash unfortunately ... long story

anyway ... I still talk to Max now and then and meet him for coffee when I get a chance ... this morning was on of those chances
I speak to Max about many things discussed on this forum just to hear from someone who was an avid hat wearer "then"

he of course only speaks for himself but he says ... and I'm quoting off a recording from my phone
thought this may be a good place to put this ...

"I only spoke about my hats to the salesmen at Martins. Who else cared? Now after speaking with you I wish I had taken better care of them. You didn't think of it. Every once and a while a young man may comment and ask what I was wearing just as they asked what you were smoking. Brands were a big deal in cigarettes you know. (inaudible) because they were like your shoes. Like your ties ... something you wore leaving the house. Not unlike the way some throw on a baseball cap today to walk the kids to school or to the laundry."

Me - did you have a Sunday hat ... or a hat that was for special occasions ?

"not that I remember....no . When one wore out you got another ... like shoes. "

Me - how many did you have at any given time?

"oh I dunno ... four or five I suppose."

Me - did you keep them in boxes?

"no. they sat up on the shelf in the coat closet or on the coat rack."

Me - do you remember what you had?

"uh ... (long pause) ... I had a nice Dobbs that I wore a lot . A couple Stetson I think. A few other brands I may recognize if you said the name but I don't recall at the moment."

Me - you still have any?

" I do ... this is one of them." (holds up a gray Stetson Sovereign Mode Edge with a wide black ribbon)

Me - that right there you got when ?

"I dunno ... in the early 50s sometime I would guess"

Me - I've asked you this before but I want to get your answer recorded again because I lost the tapes from the last time... did you take your hat off when you sat in a restaurant ? ... did you leave it on in elevators? ... what was the whole hat on or off situation like in say the 40s and 50s ?

" I would not wear my hat at the table in a restaurant .... I still don't . No one did. Of course you would take it off in the doctors office or something or in church. What did you say elevators? ... I don't know ... it depends if it had been raining I guess ... I may take it off to shake off the drops."

Me - how about at a bar or a diner counter ?

" I suppose I would look for somewhere to hang it. Not very common today ... but then you pretty much always had a hat check or somewhere to at least put it up. I suppose at a diner counter I may leave it on because I'm probably not going to be there long. It was expected of you to not wear your hat when dining with others and facing them. If you were shoulder to shoulder at a counter or bar for some reason that felt more casual. I may even leave my coat on . But dining at a table . Facing my guests I would not be wearing my hat ... no ... and this is not some old fashioned stuff here ... I see gentlemen today sitting at a table in their baseball caps and feel that they should take them off ... also my grandmother always told me to never put your hat on a table so I never did"

Me - what did you do if there was no place to hang it

"there was always somewhere to put your hat because everyone had one on"


.... this goes on and on but I won't bore you with it if you are not interested

I was going to start a Max thread and share my discussions with him ... maybe put them up in audio form ... but I think I'll try it here first to see if anyone even cares ... here is as good of a place as any I guess

I think it is all very interesting

A Max thread would be awesome!

 

[scottyrocks]

I vote yes on a Max thread.

 

[buler]

Do you find a reference that suggests Water-Bloc were pre-blocked at that time? I thought Water-Bloc was a Lee trademark referring to their felt finish quality.

You are correct, Alan. The 30's ads were for their felt finishing, not a crown blocking. Seems to be mid-40s for the pre-blocked C crown. Ad below from 1947.

B

 

[TheDane]

"Proofed against hat check girls" ... haha ... love that!

Today an ad like that would spell "Facebook sh*t-storm"

 

[RJR]

"Proofed against hat check girls" ... haha ... love that!

Today an ad like that would spell "Facebook sh*t-storm"

Right! Great ad piece.

 

[TheDane]

I just watched a documentary on Charles Lindbergh. Among mostly center dented hats I also saw quite a lot of teardrops and C-crowns in footage from the mid 30s. All were obviously hand creased - many in non-standardized cross-overs - many with bumpy crowns, aside from the very varied pinches. An amazing and wonderful display of diversity and personalization!

 

[Redfokker]

As an Oral Historian, I can't emphasize enough the value of capturing the memories and thoughts of our hat wearing fore bearers. I am kind of evangelistic about not letting these stories go unrecorded. I am presently involved in an effort to capture oral histories of alumni and emeritus professors of Oregon State University for their 150th anniversary. So many times we have interviewed one of our greats and not long after (sometimes only a couple of months) they were no longer with us. You can do it with an I-phone nowadays, don't let the opportunity slip away.

 

[M Hatman]

Bump to a VERY interesting thread......
Of note is the Lee ad above that uses BOTH the terms "crease" AND "block" in relation to the shaping of the crown.........
M

 

[Redfokker]

Bump to a VERY interesting thread......
Of note is the Lee ad above that uses BOTH the terms "crease" AND "block" in relation to the shaping of the crown.........
M

+1

 

[Rumad]

Great thread. Did the “Max” thread ever happen? I’d love to find that.

 

[mayserwegener]

You are correct, Alan. The 30's ads were for their felt finishing, not a crown blocking. Seems to be mid-40s for the pre-blocked C crown. Ad below from 1947.

View attachment 52091

B

I have NOS Lee Blue Label "Trinity" and it was definitely Pre-Shaped (possibly machine formed) by the Lee factory.

 

[Yamahana]

I know a man named Max Steiner who grew up in Brooklyn but now resides in Jersey City ...
he is 86 years young ... and sharp as a tack
I met Max on one of my excursions maybe 6 or 7 years ago when my quest for the history of hats and those who wore them at a time when they were an everyday accessory started ...
I had planned to write a book called Hats of Old New York ...I conducted probably 100 interviews and accumulated over 200 pictures ....
that project has since taken a back seat to my family and career ... I also lost much of my research in a recent computer crash unfortunately ... long story

anyway ... I still talk to Max now and then and meet him for coffee when I get a chance ... this morning was on of those chances
I speak to Max about many things discussed on this forum just to hear from someone who was an avid hat wearer "then"

he of course only speaks for himself but he says ... and I'm quoting off a recording from my phone
thought this may be a good place to put this ...

"I only spoke about my hats to the salesmen at Martins. Who else cared? Now after speaking with you I wish I had taken better care of them. You didn't think of it. Every once and a while a young man may comment and ask what I was wearing just as they asked what you were smoking. Brands were a big deal in cigarettes you know. (inaudible) because they were like your shoes. Like your ties ... something you wore leaving the house. Not unlike the way some throw on a baseball cap today to walk the kids to school or to the laundry."

Me - did you have a Sunday hat ... or a hat that was for special occasions ?

"not that I remember....no . When one wore out you got another ... like shoes. "

Me - how many did you have at any given time?

"oh I dunno ... four or five I suppose."

Me - did you keep them in boxes?

"no. they sat up on the shelf in the coat closet or on the coat rack."

Me - do you remember what you had?

"uh ... (long pause) ... I had a nice Dobbs that I wore a lot . A couple Stetson I think. A few other brands I may recognize if you said the name but I don't recall at the moment."

Me - you still have any?

" I do ... this is one of them." (holds up a gray Stetson Sovereign Mode Edge with a wide black ribbon)

Me - that right there you got when ?

"I dunno ... in the early 50s sometime I would guess"

Me - I've asked you this before but I want to get your answer recorded again because I lost the tapes from the last time... did you take your hat off when you sat in a restaurant ? ... did you leave it on in elevators? ... what was the whole hat on or off situation like in say the 40s and 50s ?

" I would not wear my hat at the table in a restaurant .... I still don't . No one did. Of course you would take it off in the doctors office or something or in church. What did you say elevators? ... I don't know ... it depends if it had been raining I guess ... I may take it off to shake off the drops."

Me - how about at a bar or a diner counter ?

" I suppose I would look for somewhere to hang it. Not very common today ... but then you pretty much always had a hat check or somewhere to at least put it up. I suppose at a diner counter I may leave it on because I'm probably not going to be there long. It was expected of you to not wear your hat when dining with others and facing them. If you were shoulder to shoulder at a counter or bar for some reason that felt more casual. I may even leave my coat on . But dining at a table . Facing my guests I would not be wearing my hat ... no ... and this is not some old fashioned stuff here ... I see gentlemen today sitting at a table in their baseball caps and feel that they should take them off ... also my grandmother always told me to never put your hat on a table so I never did"

Me - what did you do if there was no place to hang it

"there was always somewhere to put your hat because everyone had one on"


.... this goes on and on but I won't bore you with it if you are not interested

I was going to start a Max thread and share my discussions with him ... maybe put them up in audio form ... but I think I'll try it here first to see if anyone even cares ... here is as good of a place as any I guess

I think it is all very interesting

Wasn’t aware of this thread til it got bumped back to front page.
I love this interview with Max.. for me that’s what it’s all about. I got into fedoras and vintage because of my love for the style and attitude of the good ole days. I love learning and studying history. Those from the good ole days are disappearing. This past year we lost a 96 year old family friend...WW2 pilot, cowboy, gentleman, farmer who grew up in our area. I would always go out of my way to visit with him every chance I got. He was a mans man, always wore a hat. They’re ain’t many left like him.
Thanks for taking the time to do this Moon. I’m hoping a Max thread makes it to the lounge.

 

[suitedcboy]

I have NOS Lee Blue Label "Trinity" and it was definitely Pre-Shaped (possibly machine formed) by the Lee factory.

When the hats is as nice as this one with a crease as classic as this one then being machine done doesn't bother me in the least. WOW! wider edge binding, medium to wide brim, wide ribbon fedoras are the epitome of classy headwear to me. This one exemplifies it. This hat would wear well with T shirt and overalls up to an artisan bespoke 3 piece suit in the boardroom of a Forbes 100 company.

 

[mayserwegener]

When the hats is as nice as this one with a crease as classic as this one then being machine done doesn't bother me in the least. WOW! wider edge binding, medium to wide brim, wide ribbon fedoras are the epitome of classy headwear to me. This one exemplifies it. This hat would wear well with T shirt and overalls up to an artisan bespoke 3 piece suit in the boardroom of a Forbes 100 company.

Thanks!

 

[hatsRme]

I have NOS Lee Blue Label "Trinity" and it was definitely Pre-Shaped (possibly machine formed) by the Lee factory.

Another stunner, Steve. The Lee I was wearing in my avatar photo is a Preformed Lee of that era, blocked as a twin of yours. Having had that hat in my rotation for almost 50 years, there was no question in my mind as to the block.