When is overdressing acceptable?

[Sefton]

This reminds me of the best instructor I had in college. He wrote detailed comments on weekly homework, lectured clearly, stayed on the subject, and kept his office hours. He was almost universally held in high regard by the mechanical engineering students.

He also wore jeans and a flannel shirt with sneakers. Big deal.

That depends. I'm a snob for traditional work wear so it would have to be just the right pair of dark indigo jeans and just the right pair of sneakers!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

This reminds me of the best instructor I had in college. He wrote detailed comments on weekly homework, lectured clearly, stayed on the subject, and kept his office hours. He was almost universally held in high regard by the mechanical engineering students.

He also wore jeans and a flannel shirt with sneakers. Big deal.

Also beautifully put. :eusa_clap

.

 

[beaucaillou]

I agree with the fore noted 'gradations' of dress.

I tend to dress well because, well, to me life itself is worth dressing up for. My lovely clothes and ensembles aren't going to take themselves out, and I have regretted more than once leaving a silk frock at home when it clearly needed a whirl.

I think a good rule of thumb is to use an older standard, a vintage standard of dressing to the occasion, with a bit more interpretation. While I no longer wear the white gloves I used to as a child when traveling by airplane, I also won't be caught in a jogging suit and flip flops. It degrades the event, even if the event has become more common. A dress is just as comfortable to me as a running suit. My husband is the same. While he has denim and casual shirt sleeves for wood working and bee keeping, any other occasion calls for at least slacks, a dress shirt and wingtips.

When in doubt I'd rather overdress (with great confidence) than under dress. The world could benefit (imho) from a bit more formality and ceremony. One of the easiest ways to respect a community, destination or event is by appropriate and nice dress, even if it errs on over-the-top. Hey, you can always take off your hat, loosen your tie and roll up your sleeves.

 

[chanteuseCarey]

an excellent response beaucaillou...

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
Ditto, fellow overdressed girlfriend!

... I tend to dress well because, well, to me life itself is worth dressing up for. My lovely clothes and ensembles aren't going to take themselves out, and I have regretted more than once leaving a silk frock at home when it clearly needed a whirl.

I think a good rule of thumb is to use an older standard, a vintage standard of dressing to the occasion, with a bit more interpretation. While I no longer wear the white gloves I used to as a child when traveling by airplane, I also won't be caught in a jogging suit and flip flops. It degrades the event, even if the event has become more common. A dress is just as comfortable to me as a running suit. My husband is the same. While he has denim and casual shirt sleeves for wood working and bee keeping, any other occasion calls for at least slacks, a dress shirt and wingtips.

When in doubt I'd rather overdress (with great confidence) than under dress. The world could benefit (imho) from a bit more formality and ceremony. One of the easiest ways to respect a community, destination or event is by appropriate and nice dress, even if it errs on over-the-top. Hey, you can always take off your hat, loosen your tie and roll up your sleeves.

 

[Barbigirl]

Casino

I have become quite the regular at the new local casino and cigar bar and I always dress up. As well, I always get compliments and now have a positive little reputation and have built a friendly rapport with many people. If I were to dress down the fan club would be disappointed.

How's that for stuck up?

 

[avedwards]

When in doubt I'd rather overdress (with great confidence) than under dress. The world could benefit (imho) from a bit more formality and ceremony. One of the easiest ways to respect a community, destination or event is by appropriate and nice dress, even if it errs on over-the-top. Hey, you can always take off your hat, loosen your tie and roll up your sleeves.

I agree here. It was almost saddening that at a classical concert I visited with an audience of probably 100 people, I was one of maybe two or three people who wore a suit and tie. That's a classical concert, not a modern one.

As for the taking off your hat and rolling up your sleeves I also agree. For that reason I always wear long sleeved shirts and never short sleeved ones. You can roll up the sleeves on a long sleeved shirt but there are no sleeves to roll down on a short sleeved one. If you accidentally overdress you can always take your tie or jacket off and you won't look stupid but if you underdress you will look stupid and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[Lillemor]

I'm always overdressed. It's hard not to be in this day and age and I make no apologies. I've read that the hostess is supposed to try to look understated and when in doubt, dress down. However some people seem to take that to the litteral extreme on social occassions like weddings.

I'm seldomly a hostess of anything but on the few occassions I have been I've intentionally dressed up to show other women that there are other options to the casual, modern, "dress-up". However, I live in a part of the country that holds onto the jante-law

I'm happy for anyone else to dress which every way makes them happy on a daily basis so I feel perfectly entitled to "dress up" at all times. I don't even own hat and gloves (though it's high on my wish list) but just wearing hose or stockings can make me feel very formal around here. Everyone wears leggings with dresses and skirts these days. Even to parties it seems.

On some days when I've done the ballerina and bobby sock combination, I've felt formal with my circle skirts, shirts and slip over or cardigan. Most of my jewelry and make-up make me feel overdressed next to anyone else and my hair is usually only scraped up into a tidy ponytail or bun.

If it was the undone updo and street styled vintage version I'd look contemporary. It's the coordination of colors, neatness and tidyness that makes me feel that I look very different from anyone around me more than my style in itself. Everyone else are going out of their way to appear to have an effortless street style if they don't choose to blend in with the sheep.

 

[Dr Doran]

This reminds me of the best instructor I had in college. He wrote detailed comments on weekly homework, lectured clearly, stayed on the subject, and kept his office hours. He was almost universally held in high regard by the mechanical engineering students.

He also wore jeans and a flannel shirt with sneakers. Big deal.

A very confusing argument. Or perhaps simply confused.

1.) I know you can't possibly be arguing that he could not have done all these things (which I do, too) and also have dressed beautifully, can you? But the way you have phrased it, you have left that open as an (utterly illogical) implication. This is either clever rhetoric on your part (for some purpose I cannot fathom, especially as this is a forum dedicated to elegance and presumably elegance is something you care deeply about, or else you would not be here in the first place) or else shaky thought, or else something I have not understood. You seem extremely smart in all your posts, so I am stupefied by the intent of your post.

2.) Mechanical engineering is not History or Classics. Mechanical engineering professors are not daily regaling people with dramatic, true incidents of bravery, survival, sacrifice, and death, nor are they transmitting to young people the tales that are the lifeblood of western culture.

To wear a suit when discussing the mechanics of the origins of democracy at Athens is entirely appropriate given the immense significance of this development to all future generations in the Western world and to Western thought itself. To wear a suit when discussing the Peloponnesian War, when lecturing on Pericles' Funeral Oration in Thucydides Book II, is entirely appropriate given the nature of that oration (I advise all to reread it if you haven't lately -- it starts at 2.37). To fail to do this is akin to making jokes when lecturing about the Armenian Genocide. It is entirely inappropriate.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

A very confusing argument. Or perhaps simply confused.

1.) I know you can't possibly be arguing that he could not have done all these things (which I do, too) and also have dressed beautifully, can you?


2.) Mechanical engineering is not History or Classics. Mechanical engineering professors are not daily regaling people with dramatic, true incidents of bravery, survival, sacrifice, and death, nor are they transmitting to young people the tales that are the lifeblood of western culture.

No...but if I get the argument correctly...she is saying that he could be all those things -however- he was dressed. His dressing in a 'Fedora Lounge Approved' style would not have -improved- his performance. So at that point, it is up to the individual to decide how to dress.

And the Lounge, dedicated to elegance? I thought it was about a love of the Golden Era...which was not -all- elegance and riches.


Oh please....Mechanical Engineering contributes a lot more to -your- personal life then the classics do.....Got in your car lately? Rode in a plane? Walked into a building and had the elevator work and -not- drop you to your death? The combination of engineering and medicine...artificial heart anyone? Dialysis machine?

Then those are the dramatic true incidents of bravery, survival, sacrifice....etc...that the engineering sciences play in -your- life....More things that are that is engineered...have stories like that then you know.

Don't misunderstand, I am not belittling the Classics, but please don't belittle Engineering.

 

[Feraud]

Not to speak for Paisley but my understanding of her comment is professors (or anyone else) are capable of being professional, detailed, capable of leadership, and respect in flannel and sneakers.
She is absolutely right.

Perhaps if one wishes to lecture on the merits of Hannibal's conquests it would be more appropriate to dress according to the stanards of his day?

 

[scotrace]

A very confusing argument. Or perhaps simply confused.

1.) I know you can't possibly be arguing that he could not have done all these things (which I do, too) and also have dressed beautifully, can you? But the way you have phrased it, you have left that open as an (utterly illogical) implication. This is either clever rhetoric on your part (for some purpose I cannot fathom, especially as this is a forum dedicated to elegance and presumably elegance is something you care deeply about, or else you would not be here in the first place) or else shaky thought, or else something I have not understood. You seem extremely smart in all your posts, so I am stupefied by the intent of your post.

2.) Mechanical engineering is not History or Classics. Mechanical engineering professors are not daily regaling people with dramatic, true incidents of bravery, survival, sacrifice, and death, nor are they transmitting to young people the tales that are the lifeblood of western culture.

To wear a suit when discussing the mechanics of the origins of democracy at Athens is entirely appropriate given the immense significance of this development to all future generations in the Western world and to Western thought itself. To wear a suit when discussing the Peloponnesian War, when lecturing on Pericles' Funeral Oration in Thucydides Book II, is entirely appropriate given the nature of that oration (I advise all to reread it if you haven't lately -- it starts at 2.37). To fail to do this is akin to making jokes when lecturing about the Armenian Genocide. It is entirely inappropriate.

This is pompous even for you, my friend

Said with love and respect, of course.

Still. Pompous + tax.

 

[Paisley]

A very confusing argument. Or perhaps simply confused.

1.) I know you can't possibly be arguing that he could not have done all these things (which I do, too) and also have dressed beautifully, can you? But the way you have phrased it, you have left that open as an (utterly illogical) implication. This is either clever rhetoric on your part (for some purpose I cannot fathom, especially as this is a forum dedicated to elegance and presumably elegance is something you care deeply about, or else you would not be here in the first place) or else shaky thought, or else something I have not understood. You seem extremely smart in all your posts, so I am stupefied by the intent of your post.

2.) Mechanical engineering is not History or Classics. Mechanical engineering professors are not daily regaling people with dramatic, true incidents of bravery, survival, sacrifice, and death, nor are they transmitting to young people the tales that are the lifeblood of western culture.

To wear a suit when discussing the mechanics of the origins of democracy at Athens is entirely appropriate given the immense significance of this development to all future generations in the Western world and to Western thought itself. To wear a suit when discussing the Peloponnesian War, when lecturing on Pericles' Funeral Oration in Thucydides Book II, is entirely appropriate given the nature of that oration (I advise all to reread it if you haven't lately -- it starts at 2.37). To fail to do this is akin to making jokes when lecturing about the Armenian Genocide. It is entirely inappropriate.

1. My post wasn't an argument, it was an observation that an instructor doesn't have to wear a suit or tie to do a good job. Of course, there's nothing wrong if he or she chooses to dress up. Just to be clear, this instructor was casual, but not unkempt.

2. So, if a teacher is talking about something as mundane as thermodynamics and not something as elevated as ancient history, not dressing up is fine, if I understand you. What's your beef, then?

 

[Viola]

Dressing casually (whether Golden Era in a flat cap and chambray shirt and suspenders and jeans and work boots, or modernly in skater pants and a huge sports jersey and Converse) is not equivalent to joking about genocide except possibly if you are intentionally being a jerk and wearing your explicit metal concert tee to a funeral, or wearing neo-Nazi paraphanalia, or otherwise really working to get a rise out of people.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As far as classrooms go, I think of it this way -- a teacher is not, and should not be, a pal or a peer, and should not present to the class as such. He or she is an authority figure, and the students are, or should be, under his or her authority. They are *not* equals in terms of their specific situation, and the teacher only lowers his or her own standing by pretending that this difference in station doesn't exist. Dressing the part of an authority figure may very well encourage the students to acknowledge that authority.

This might seem like an especially old-fashioned view, but hey, so am I.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Dressing the part of an authority figure may very well encourage the students to acknowledge that authority.

It might, but it won't keep their respect if the teacher is lousy. On the other hand, a great teacher --even in flannel and corduroy-- will ultimately win and hold on to her/his students' respect.


.

 

[Paisley]

This makes me think of two more instructors:

One was a math professor. He wore a white shirt and slacks, but was so unkempt and disorganized that I heard, in such a way as to believe it, that he quit because he wasn't taken seriously.

The other was another engineering instructor who wore a suit. He related stories of his dishonesty to the class, and even bragged that he had gotten a free engine for his car under false pretenses. One of my classmates nicknamed him "Slimeberry." He lasted one semester.

Dressing up can be a good way to make a first impression, but sensible people will ultimately judge you on your actions.

 

[Paisley]

As far as classrooms go, I think of it this way -- a teacher is not, and should not be, a pal or a peer, and should not present to the class as such. He or she is an authority figure, and the students are, or should be, under his or her authority. They are *not* equals in terms of their specific situation, and the teacher only lowers his or her own standing by pretending that this difference in station doesn't exist. Dressing the part of an authority figure may very well encourage the students to acknowledge that authority.

This might seem like an especially old-fashioned view, but hey, so am I.

Even though he was casual and cracked a good joke now and then, there was never any doubt that our flannel-clad instructor was in charge of the class and wasn't looking for pals among his students.

This reminds me of my shop teacher in junior high. He wore jeans, and I'm sure he didn't wear a coat or tie. We were all scared of him. Years later, I met a teacher who worked with him and said that he scared the faculty as well. Good shop teacher, though--it was a fun class if you didn't cross him. lol

 

[Carlisle Blues]

It more about the message than the messenger.

 

[Tiller]

As far as classrooms go, I think of it this way -- a teacher is not, and should not be, a pal or a peer, and should not present to the class as such. He or she is an authority figure, and the students are, or should be, under his or her authority. They are *not* equals in terms of their specific situation, and the teacher only lowers his or her own standing by pretending that this difference in station doesn't exist. Dressing the part of an authority figure may very well encourage the students to acknowledge that authority.

This might seem like an especially old-fashioned view, but hey, so am I.

I agree 100 percent Lizzie. The most annoying kind of Professor IMHO is the one who tries to be everyone's best friend, and forgets what subject they are suppose to be teaching. I'm not paying thousands of dollars a semester to hear the life story of some aged hippie, who wants to be my "buddy", I'm there to learn a trade. If your suppose to be teaching math, I shouldn't have to listen for twenty minutes about what happened to you the day before, before we actually start on anything worth wild. I'll take the old fashion no bs instructor, compared to the "I feel your pain" lets all get in a drum circle and talk about our feelings during History 212 crap. The money I spend on college is being spent so I can get an education, not so I can become friends with lonely people.

 

[LizzieMaine]

This reminds me of my shop teacher in junior high. He wore jeans, and I'm sure he didn't wear a coat or tie. We were all scared of him. Years later, I met a teacher who worked with him and said that he scared the faculty as well. Good shop teacher, though--it was a fun class if you didn't cross him. lol

I've always had a personal rule of thumb: never trust a carpenter who wears a tie, and never trust a lawyer in sandals. Hasn't steered me wrong yet!