When is a horse not a horse....

[Worf]

I've only 3 horsehide jackets so I'm not an expert by anymeans but I do have SOME experience with the skin. A guy here at work who's an Indiana Jones freak noticed my custom U.S. Authentics and breathlessly brought in his "holy of holies" for me to inspect. In that he's all about the Jones he had Wested make him a custom HH Indy jacket. When he told me what he had I expected to see something. Instead of seeing something special I was treated to something that was more of a mystery. The coat fit the guy relatively well. It's insides had cotton drill in the body, rayon in the sleeves. Decent zipper, albeit on the wrong side of the slide, and some double stitching were visible. You could tell they were cutting corners though as the coat hook was so small as to be unusable and metal on the side pulls were clearly inferior... However what puzzled me most was what Wested calls Horsehide leather.

I own cow, horse and goat but for the life of me I can't make out what this stuff is. The hide is not vintage, but it has no finish or shine either. It's brown but not a "natural" brown more like a excrement than cordovan or wood. The grain is almost pebbly to the touch. I am stumped as to what this really is. I'm meeting the guy again tomorrow at my house to let him see/touch what I consider horsehide. I will take pictures then, perhaps you guys can tell me what hide he's really got or if it horse but just cheap horse. Thanks in advance...

Worf

 

[ButteMT61]

Dunno man. Wested to me is really a mediocre jacket.
I'll get some grief for that but the the examples I've seen sucked.

 

[coloradorider]

Love the Jules references...

I've only taken away that I should avoid Wested jackets.

When you say pebbly do you mean sueded or pronounced fine grain like goat. I've seen some horse hide jackets that were almost sueded. Not sure if this was because the hides were split and cheap or some 'feature' of the tanning process. I'm with you in considering quality horse to be a smooth hide and wouldn't really want something like this Wested example.

 

[Doctor Strange]

In defense of Wested...

I have had a Wested lambskin Raiders for almost a decade, and I love it. I can't speak to the quality of their horsehide, or for that matter, their goatskin or cowhide.

What I have said here many times, and will continue to say, is that their jackets are excellent for the price, with the understanding that they make film wardrobe, not milspec tough jackets. And in particular, I defy you to find another decently made Indy jacket - made to custom size and specs - for around $300. For those of us with sizing issues and limited budgets, Wested is a godsend... I have G&B jackets that cost me twice as much as my Wested... and fit me half as well. Sure, the G&Bs are better made, but they don't look right on me!

And I have found that my Raiders jacket has held up just fine to ordinary wear - riding around in cars, walking around cities, and some light hiking. Nobody is claiming that their jackets are constructed as well as even US Wings/Schott/Legendary/other current-spec jackets. Again, they're film wardrobe, not military equipment.

And one other thing: when I tore a big gash in the back panel of my Raiders jacket by getting it caught on the edge of my car door (yes, lambskin is fragile!), I sent it back to them after negotiating a repair price (I think it was 20 pounds, plus 15 more for return shipping), on the understanding that it would take a long time (it was winter, and too cold to wear it anyway) and the color of the leather might not match precisely. Two months later, on Xmas Eve, I unexpectedly received a package from them. It was the jacket... beautifully repaired, and the leather was a perfect color match, if a bit smoother than the other panels. And there was a card saying Happy Christmas... and no charge for the repair or the shipping!

Now that's customer service above and beyond, friends! And I think it definitely counts for something, as does their remarkably reasonably priced custom sizing...

 

[Worf]

Thanks Doc. I didn't know anything about Wested. When you put the price contingent on it I guess it makes sense. My Indy is over twice the price you quoted so it makes sense I suppose his would be pale in comparison. Well, I'll take the pics anyway. I still don't have a clue what skin is on that coat. There's no "Genuine Horsehide" label in it, I looked, but he assures me it's on the receipt and he paid extra for the hide so.. I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Didn't mean to start any kind of war just askin' as they say. One other thing he did say he bought the jacket to complete his Indy costume, guess that should've been a clue.

Worf

 

[1911 Man]

I have had three Aero horsehide jackets, 2 of them were jerky seal A-2 horsehides, one the FQHH in brown. Before I bought any of them, I owned a Wested Horsehide Indy Jacket. I had the same impression you did about the hide, in that it was real lackluster. It was a tough hide, but showed no character at all. It was a very flat brown that didn't weather at all with use, so it almost came off looking like vinyl. After I bought my first Aero A2, and saw how superior their hide was, I had them make a custom halfbelt in A2 leather, with the front redesigned to look more like an Indy Jacket. I have long since sold the Wested.

 

[Kt Templar]

His zipper was not on the wrong side. Indy's zipper slide is under the storm flap in all of the movies.

The original Film jackets were made in the UK where the zipper silde is often on the opposite side to the US. Actually it's been discussed a lot on the Indy forums and whilst it seems that it's not as rigidly followed in the rest of the world (ie Canadian zippers seem to use both sides). UK men's zippers tend to have the pull on the wearers left.

Wested's horsehide seems to have a heavy finish on it that much is correct, it's not the oiled and polished leather style that, for example horween makes. I had one and it grains up with wear but I found it too heavy. The film jacket was made of merino sheep leather, capeskin. So horse is not really the right leather, though some have specced it due to the mystique of horse. Their leather has a very tight grain structure with tiny pores. It seems similar to the horsehide jacket I had from BK.

 

[andyfalzon]

Here's a close up photo of Wested's seal brown horse
We tested our AAF stamp on it.

You may see 100 products made from horse and they may all look like they 're made from different hide.
It's hard to talk about 'superior' and 'inferior', it's a matter of taste and different tanning. The tannery can make a piece of grade A horse leather look great (in your eyes) and another piece of the same hide look like crap (in your eyes). You have to take into account the intended use. The hide that looks like crap to you (because it doesn't look nice on a jacket) might be the perfect hide for a different application.
There is no reason for a vendor to fake the hide, as you can get horse at the same price that you get cowhide; cowhide sometimes is more expensive. (all that depends on various factors including the origin, tanning method, which tanner etc etc)

I had promised to show a few samples of horse to discuss the various textures it can have. I made the photos and will uploaded them all in a new thread soon. What's interesting is that I found an original A-2 jacket in horsehide (guaranteed) but when you look at the close up shots, looks like goat. Strange?

 

[Worf]

His zipper was not on the wrong side. Indy's zipper slide is under the storm flap in all of the movies.

The original Film jackets were made in the UK where the zipper silde is often on the opposite side to the US. Actually it's been discussed a lot on the Indy forums and whilst it seems that it's not as rigidly followed in the rest of the world (ie Canadian zippers seem to use both sides). UK men's zippers tend to have the pull on the wearers left.

Wested's horsehide seems to have a heavy finish on it that much is correct, it's not the oiled and polished leather style that, for example horween makes. I had one and it grains up with wear but I found it too heavy. The film jacket was made of merino sheep leather, capeskin. So horse is not really the right leather, though some have specced it due to the mystique of horse. Their leather has a very tight grain structure with tiny pores. It seems similar to the horsehide jacket I had from BK.

That's exactly how it looks. That's it exactly. So I guess it IS horse. Whodda thunk. Thanks for the education all.

Worf

 

[seabass]

i have a wested dr who & its Horsehide & looks identical to the above pic.. but it does not say HH on the label indicating it is...
look like some modern finish leather...& modern oversize cut & fit........a far step from FQHH...

 

[handymike]

This seems to look a lot like the leather on a Sam Walker jacket I had. And that DID have a label saying "genuine horsehide". But definitely a different look and feel to a FQHH Aero jacket.