When does a gentleman fight back?

[KittyT]

Like most here, I believe that throwing the first punch is wrong, but that there is never, ever anything wrong with fighting in self-defense or fighting to defend someone else. All animals have an incredibly strong survival instinct and as humans, it's occasionally more difficult for us to accept violence in self-defense because of our ability to analyze it on a moral/ethical level.

Obviously, the best course of action is avoidance - the number one rule taught in pretty much every self-defense class (including those focusing on firearms). Also never underestimate the effectiveness of ignoring someone, even if you're seething as you do it. This is usually made easier by an internal pep-talk about your own superiority lol

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

Like most here, I believe that throwing the first punch is wrong, but that there is never, ever anything wrong with fighting in self-defense or fighting to defend someone else. All animals have an incredibly strong survival instinct and as humans, it's occasionally more difficult for us to accept violence in self-defense because of our ability to analyze it on a moral/ethical level.

Obviously, the best course of action is avoidance - the number one rule taught in pretty much every self-defense class (including those focusing on firearms). Also never underestimate the effectiveness of ignoring someone, even if you're seething as you do it. This is usually made easier by an internal pep-talk about your own superiority lol

People who provoke know that they are inferior. They provoke, just so that they can prove thier self worth to themselves.

 

[Lear]

Thanks to all for the replies. All very interesting. Too many to quote I'm afraid.

Interesting story Jeep. When you feel like pulling that trigger, just remember my initial post.

For some reason, I do seem to bring out the aggressive side in my fellow man. I've never been able to figure that out.

I remember how surprised I was when on 'set' in medieval costume. I was wearing armour, sword, the full works:

The production company had hired a bunch of seriously tough (serving) British Parachute Regiment guys. They got these men via an agency who specialized in fight scenes, marching etc. Much easier to have a group of trained soldiers march in-line, than to train a bunch of civilians.

Anyway, word got back to me that many of these guys hated me. I remember wondering why they didn't have more important things to consider. One of them was heard saying, "Who the f..k does he think he is, walking around like that". I hadn't even spoken to any of them, nor had I been anything other than polite. Amazing!

I could fill twenty pages with an average year of such near misses.

Lear

 

[Paisley]

There could be something unintentional in your manner that brings out ill feeling in some people. Joining a Toastmasters club to get some friendly feedback on how you are perceived is something you might find helpful.

 

[celtic]

that, and you might want to shave off your hitler moustache

 

[KittyT]

Anyway, word got back to me that many of these guys hated me. I remember wondering why they didn't have more important things to consider. One of them was heard saying, "Who the f..k does he think he is, walking around like that". I hadn't even spoken to any of them, nor had I been anything other than polite. Amazing!

I could fill twenty pages with an average year of such near misses.

Lear, who cares if they hated you? Seriously, if someone hates you for such unfounded reasons, is this someone who's opinion even remotely matters to you? Such people are not even worth the time it takes to be angry at them.

It's a sad story, but I'm not sure I'd consider that a "near miss".

 

[chanteuseCarey]

a can of worms here for sure...

Another gal's opin- I would agree that a gentlemen never starts a fight, but would defend/fight when attacked. Be that his own person, his values, his family, or his homeland. It goes without saying that a gentlemen will always do what is needed to protect women and children.

 

[gtdean48]

I will defend myself when threatened. I will not wait until somebody has "thrown the first punch". I have seen too many not be able to answer back. If I cannot trust my judgement to evaluate threat then I should be a victim. In my youth "whipping somebody's ass" was not a foreign concept, some extraction of school yard fights, establishing the pecking order, etc. In my middle-age if physically assaulted or as stated above, judged imminent, it is self defense/preservation at all cost. That goes for my wife, child & other family members. From all that I have seen, genteel society & defending ones honor are far gone ideals. If somebody does or is about to lay a hand on me or mine, do I really have time to figure when he will stop inflicting damage on me or somebody dear to me?
I do not seek trouble & actively seek to avoid it, which in no way is cowardly. But if unavoidable, I'm all in.

 

[Lear]

Another funny event occured two weeks ago in Costa Coffee. I entered a completely empty shop, apart from the sales assistant and manager. Before I could even pay for my coffee, I was aware of another customer, standing beside me. From a standing start, it went something like this:


Customer: I want to punch you in the face.

Me: (Wondering if I've heard correctly). Pardon

Customer: I want to hurt you

Me: Look, it's a really nice day and the sun is shining. You've just made me feel really sad. I hope that you can also have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine. (yes, I really did say that).

Customer: (Looks at me hard). I'm sorry. (Pays for his coffee and leaves).

Sales Assistant: Wow, what was all that about.

Me: I don't know, I've never seen him before.


The wording is pretty much 90% accurate. Now, every time I go to that Costa, the manager reminds me of that bizarre encounter.


Then, a week earlier, both in the space of one week and on the same underground line:

Incident One
I get onto the train, to be met by a Chav with his foot on the only free seat:

Me: I'm going to sit in that seat

The Chav Begrudgingly moves his foot, all the while snarling at me. As I sit down, the Chav jumps up, glaring at me.

Chav: I'm going to f..king kill you.

The Chav begins to walk down the row of seats, then back again.

Chav: I'm going to stick you. I'm going to f..king kill you

The train pulls into the next station and he gets off.

I continue my journey.


The funny thing here, was that as he uttered his first words, the newspapers of all passengers suddenly shot up. I vividly remember seeing nothing but newspaper headlines. No faces were to be seen at all. After the Chav left, I muttered something about, "That wasn't very nice", expecting other passengers to laugh with me. Nobody said a word, nor did anybody look at me. It was as if I was the miscreant. Strange!


IIncident Two (few days later)
I'm already seated on the train, in the seat right next to the main double doors. A guy gets on with a large umbrella. He catches sight of me, then walks right over. He pulls the umbrella back to obtain maximum velocity and swings it forward as hard as he can. The vertical hand rail is right next to my shoulder, halting the stick before it can make contact. My newspaper falls to the floor, with pages falling everywhere. The guy then glares at me and, like before, leaves at the next stop.

At no time did I speak to him. Once again, all other passengers suddenly become fascinated by their newspapers or fingernails.

These are but mere snippets...

 

[Spitfire]

Just to lighten up a bit. Jeep, your post reminded me of this story:

A man wakes up one night, to see 3 young guys trying to steal his car.
So he calls the local policestation.
They tell him, that they don't have a patrolcar they can send at the moment, and asks him to sit tight and don't do anything.

5 minutes later he calls the policestation again. This time he tells them, that it's OK - he has shot two of the carthiefs - and wounded the last one.
Then he hangs up.

Within two minutes the house is surrounded by 10 policecars, 4 squadcars, 2 helicopters and what have you. And the 3 carthiefs are arrested.

A very angry Chief of police comes up to the man and says:
"I thought you said you had shot at these guys - I don't see any firearm!"
"That's right" - the man says - "and you said you did not have a patrolcar".

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Lear, it's all a conspiracy. They'll be sticking you with poisoned brollies next. Maybe they're all style forum-ites … Apparently a lot of annoying chaps over there.

troll troll trolling along …

bk

 

[LizzieMaine]

Historically, of course, a gentleman fights back when struck smartly across the cheek with a fawn-colored glove.

 

[Paisley]

Incident One
I get onto the train, to be met by a Chav with his foot on the only free seat:

Me: I'm going to sit in that seat

A gentlemanly phrase like "Excuse me, do you mind if I sit here?" might get a better reaction.

 

[Lear]

Lear, who cares if they hated you? Seriously, if someone hates you for such unfounded reasons, is this someone who's opinion even remotely matters to you? Such people are not even worth the time it takes to be angry at them.

It's a sad story, but I'm not sure I'd consider that a "near miss".

Absolutely agree with you. Sticks and stones etc. But I was left in no doubt, that they would have liked nothing better than to trample over my face with whatever footwear was at hand (not even John Lobbs, if you don't mind.)

I later tried to rectify the matter by engaging in small talk. The conversation was about immersion foot and the benefits of Gore-tex vs plastic bags. Anyway, it ended with two of his mates gently restraining him, as he threatened to do all sorts of nasty things to my body.

Later that day, the previously aggressive soldier approached me to apologize. I remember him stumbling over his words as he tried to explain why he'd flared up. We never got to the bottom of why. He seemed a little embarrassed at his actions. I'm not even sure that he knew what brought it on.

My point is, these occurrences are now so commonplace, that they've become a part of my daily life.

Lear

 

[PSK123]

A gentlemanly phrase like "Excuse me, do you mind if I sit here?" might get a better reaction.

Haha my thoughts entirely, Paisley.


Lear, you certainly seem to get more than your dues worth of surrounding idiots though haha! lol

 

[HadleyH]

Silly provocations from people you don't care, you ignore.
You try not to hit first.
Self-control? Sure.

But sometimes confrontation is inevitable. If you are witness to some horrible behavior being perpetrated to weak and defensless people or animals, you have to respond , otherwise you'd be a coward and being a coward (physically or mentally) is not a good thing to be in my book.

My 2 cents worth.

 

[Miss Sis]

The production company had hired a bunch of seriously tough (serving) British Parachute Regiment guys.

I'm afraid to say that serving members of the British Armed Forces can be the worst offenders for causing trouble. Too much adreneline? Testosterone? Who knows?

I do know that one Living History event in the UK that had a group of serving Paras with a climbing wall had to send them home early after they *started* a fight in the beer tent a few years ago. Now, I can't understand why they went in the first place if they don't like re-enactors, as many don't. It's a very sad and strange attitude that completely baffles me. Why go looking for trouble?
[huh]

 

[Diamondback]

"Your best defense is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation."--master pistolero Clint Smith, director of Thunder Ranch

As for me, I just live like the rattlesnake I'm named after--try to slither away or hide from perceived potential trouble, but once it's clear that it's seeking me out or threatening those around me (analog to the snake's "territory"), then It's On, and a swift Decisive Engagement is the best way to end it for all concerned.

Bear in mind, in different places laws do vary about what's permissible--in most of the United States, if you see a forcible felony being committed on an innocent bystander you are sanctioned to intervene at any level up to and including deadly force to prevent the commission of that felony; in most of the rest of the world it's considered "barbaric" and "aggression" and will get you a sentence many times longer than what's given to the original perp. (Shades of 1984, anyone? But I digress...)

----------------
Now playing: John Williams - Fast Streets of Shanghai
via FoxyTunes

 

[Lear]

Lear, you certainly seem to get more than your dues worth of surrounding idiots though haha! lol

Incident for yesterday - Fri 17th April:

While eating a late breakfast, the following took place:

Hear a ring on the bell. Look through blinds to see a recovery truck parked in front of the stranded car (with one flat tyre), that I'm temporarily looking after. The truck is on my PRIVATE LAND.

An older bloke (50'ish) and a younger bloke (18-20) are just getting back into the vehicle.

Wondering what the hell is happening, I stand by the main door and the following conversation takes place:

OB: This your car?

Me: Don't you worry yourself about that car... why are you on my private property?

OB: We were just passing OK. Wondered if you wanted to get rid of it, that's all. So don't you come around here giving it all of that f..king stuff!

Me: Well actually, as I already live here, it's you that's coming around here, not me.

Lots more swearing from OB follows. Can't remember what he said... The YB gets out of the van and starts to walk towards me, I assume he wants to fight.

YB: So, do you want to make something f..king out of it then?

He is pulling his shoulders back, but still doesn't get any nearer than ten feet. I've made the mistake of entering into detailed conversation with a couple of not very polite people.

OB (yelling from the van). So do you own that f..king car or not?

Me: No

OB: Well f..k off then.

OB slams the door and YB makes his way back to the truck. They drive off leaving a bit of paper stuck to the car windscreen.


Conclusion: Even in your house, there's no escape. I definitely won't be asking them round for dinner

Maybe we could have a new sticky thread - Fight of the day

 

[Tikismall]

Historically, of course, a gentleman fights back when struck smartly across the cheek with a fawn-colored glove.

lol Oh how times have changed!

Your posts always make my day! Love it.