What's with the lapels and shoulder pads?

[Martina]

I have some question about the trend in lapels and shoulder pads.
I have a handful of suit jackets, all with varying lapels AND shoulder paddings that are all from the same era (at least I think they are). What was the trend in lapels and shoulder pads?

This jacket I know, now, to be from the 1930s-40s. The lapels are wide and curve slightly outwards.

This jacket is by the same company as above BUT the lapels are just slightly smaller and look at the shape of the jacket; it's a smaller size but it's totally fitted compared to the one up top.

THIS jacket, although an SB, still has wide peaked lapels BUT they're not as rounded as on the first two jackets AND this jacket has padding at the BACK of the shoulders that is easily 1" thick!! This one has 4 working cuff buttons too.

The next three I'm going to list all are SB and their lapels get increasingly lower BUT they seem to be pretty much all the same width.

*CONTINUED ON THE NEXT PAGE*

 

[Martina]

Page 2 Lapels & Shoulder Pads

Lastly, these are two coats from the same era as the above jackets.
This one is a fly front wool, with something like mini-peaked lapels

And this one is an old Harris Tweed with a collar & lapel that looks to me almost like the opposite of a peaked lapel (the collar is longer than the lapel AND sloping downwards).

So what's the deal? All these widths and lengths of the lapels AND different thicknesses and varying areas of shoulder pads (Although, I have to admit to loving the look of the heavily padded shoulders, that blue one astounds me! I think I'll have to get my son to try it on and show some comparrison pictures).

Oh...... to be a man and be able to wear this look! I think I have SUIT ENVY!

 

[scotrace]

This is a "military collar" and is quite commonly seen on overcoats.

 

[Martina]

Military?

Really, a military collar? I had no idea. That is first collar that I've seen like that, even on overcoats. Is that a common look for vintage US coats or elsewhere? :eusa_doh:

 

[Martina]

Lapel Sizes

I'd like to clarify my question...
All of the suit jackets are from the 1940s (I believe). However, the lapel sizes are ALL different. (The linings of the first two have shoulder petal linings and full linings at the sides, while the last brown one has a 1/3 lining at the upper back and is full at the sides).

My question is WHY, if these are all from right about the same time, do they all have different sized lapel widths? Or was there a trend towards more narrow peaked lapels, before men started wearing mostly notched lapels.

Also, the middle jacket, the lighter blue one, has the thickest shoulder pads of ALL of the jackets shown -if the style went from wider to narrower lapels over time, did the shoulder pads go from thick, to thicker, then back to just thick again, during this same period?

The peaked lapel jackets:

If I follow the angle of the line of the peaked part of the lapel, this one
measures 6.25" (6 1/4")

This one is 5.75" (5 3/4")

And this one is 5.25" (5 1/4")

Thanks,
~Martina~

 

[Baron Kurtz]

My question is WHY, if these are all from right about the same time, do they all have different sized lapel widths? Or was there a trend towards more narrow peaked lapels, before men started wearing mostly notched lapels.

Thanks,
~Martina~

Easy - because they are NOT from all around the same time period. Sure, they're all from the same 10- to 15-year period (or that's my best guess), but think how much styles change just from year to year. This is called fashion. Dating of the images below always with the strict caveats that 1) they are american and 2) they are not bespoke. If either of these rules is broken, the dates below might be accurate, but i wouldn't swear to it. Be careful - Just as a tip: you cannot date a jacket by one feature alone. The suit must be regarded as a whole: button stance, lapels, shoulders (though this is one of the worst features for dating) - they all have an impact on the dating of a suit. Regard:

My best guess on this one is late 30s. If you push me, i'll say about 1937. I bet that if it has union tags, they will be the 1936 type.

This is earlier (and incidentally is one of the coolest i've seen for a while. If it's really small, i'd be interested in taking it off your hands.). Please check the pockets and tell me if there is a label which says "Made under the men's clothing authority. NRA, We do our Part". Maybe not, but this is certainly from the early 30s.

And this style was popular in the early 1940s. just pre-war.

Your overcoat posted above is, i would guess, early 50s. Though the style was around in the 30s and 40s, i only ever see them with a label which would date it to the early 1950s. They are quite common.

I'd be interested in seeing more details of this one:

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Also, none of the DBs pictured above could ever be described as having narrow lapels. They are all wide - i mean, by your measurements, there is but 1" difference between the widest and "narrowest". This does not constitute much variation . . .

bk

 

[John in Covina]

Double wide with a porch.

I seem to recall that during WWII they kept laples smaller to save on material. After the war the lapels became pretty big, if you get to see the movie "The Two Jakes" (esentially a Chinatown II) in the post war era I think around 1946-48, Jack Nicholson's character the PI, Jake Gittes, has some fantastic suits and jackets with lapel widths that approach the extreme side of wide.

I also seem to recall as they approahed the 50's, shoulder width and padding got bigger too. But you should note that a tailor may use padding to make up for the physique of the wearer, I have one shoulder lower than another and the tailor put padding in to offset the uneven nature on my old tux.

 

[Martina]

I think this one is bespoke -
No tags and that dotted look stitching around the collar and lapels

Which overcoat is the 50s> The peaked lapel one (gray) of the Harris Tweed military collar one(brown)? I would have thought the gray one older because of the lapels and fly front.

I don't think that either of the Allen, Schmidt & Pringle DB jackets (the blue one with the funky diamond pattern & the neat brown one) have union tags. I double check though but the Allen... tag is from Utica, New York

The blue striped one with the two pockets... what do you want to know? It's from Harry Rothman's, Fifth Avenue New York originally, although he sold only BIG name brands at discount prices and this one says Balmerino Reg. at the top of the tag; it also has an old Union tag and a sizing tag (size 40) inside the chest pocket. I'll double check union tag though. ALso, it has the shoulder petal lining, full at the sides and a piece over the back vent.

I just measured the solid brown one and it is small. My son and hubby LOVE it but both of them are too large shouldered to wear it. It measures out to 38" chest, 34" waist, and 36" hips (17" shoulders, & sleeves just shy of 24") and is 29" long. I told you it was small and very fitted. I'll check the union tag and get back to you on that.

You can PM me if you want about that one and/or the blue striped one.

I think I've talked my son into wearing the light blue one to a job interview!! Fingers crossed... if he does well, maybe he'll see the value of this era's men's suits!! -I can only hope!!!

~Martina~

 

[Martina]

PS: You know I have to live vicariously, by making my male family members wear these suits and jackets! It's such a joy to see men that actually enjoy wearing them, without all the arm twisting and cajoling!

 

[Martina]

John in Covina:
I also seem to recall as they approahed the 50's, shoulder width and padding got bigger too.

Wow John... you mean there are shoulder pads thicker than the 1" ones in that blue jacket? I can't even imagine!!

Baron,
neither the blue textured jacket or the brown one, both from the same company in New York, have a Union tag inside. I checked all the pockets, inside and out (and that light blue pre-war one has NO tags what-so-ever).

All of this perplexes me!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

shoulder padding went nuts (that is, huge) in the years immediately post-WWII.

I meant the tweed overcoat . . .

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

THIS jacket, although an SB, still has wide peaked lapels BUT they're not as rounded as on the first two jackets AND this jacket has padding at the BACK of the shoulders that is easily 1" thick!! This one has 4 working cuff buttons too.

That's double breasted, by the way.

An inch of padding isn't too crazy.

bk

 

[Martina]

Oh geez... ya know I knew that!
SB -I thought that was Latin for Suchadoublae Breastedae? Oh gosh, now I'm spouting pig latin!
My old Botany professor would be proud