What's up with Nick and Jessica?

[Lincsong]

Something I won't miss

At least there won't be any Nick and Jessica specials on television anymore.

 

[varga49]

I hope none of your bartenders quit. You've got a fabulous team!

DITTO!

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I meant to quote Senator Jack here!

Thanks, doll.

 

[varga49]

I'm not blasting anyone here, but I'm beginning to feel this is getting a bit Pythonesque with everyone going on about the thread title. Perhaps I should have called it 'Arthur Two-Sheds Jackson.'

Regards,

Senator Jack

I was just looking for a little comic relief Jack!

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I am sure that your perspective as a woman and all women are welcome here. You are not intruding at all. It is more about a discussion than it being a gentleman's club based on men only. That was just an example of the conduct required and expected here. You know "tut tut and all that rubbish." Feel free to participate as you wish by all means.
I do know what you mean about speaking about the other sex's fashions. You will not likely see me in the Powder room talking about such things either.

Regards to all,

J

Oh, good. I tend to hang around fellows more than ladies in real life, anyway.

 

[varga49]

Thanks, doll.

please feel free to participate always!!!!!!!!!!!! for ALL the reasons stated by dem other guys!

 

[Gray Ghost]

Politics

Thought yall might like this.

From the last 13th Air Force Veterans Magazine:

Politics / poll meaning many and tics meaning blood-suckers.

Sounds about right.

GG

 

[nightandthecity]

Sentiments that most of us probably share GG, but unfortunately, to quote another recent veterans' journal (8th Air Force News) "you might not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you"!

 

[nightandthecity]

If anyone here seriously thought I would post anything about those morons, then he or she has obviously never read one of my posts. And if either of those two morons are reading this post, no, I don't apologize for the name-calling.

Sorry Jack, no avoiding it, your thread title really must have kept out a lot of people out who would be very interested in this discussion! I only noticed the thread today because I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve just seen a newspaper feature on this ?¢‚Ǩ?ìNick and Jessica?¢‚Ǩ? - I had never even heard of them before. When I saw your name attached I was instantly curious as to why you would be interested in what sound like a pair of talentless mediocrities. But enough of them.

I find myself in sympathy with both sides of this debate. On the one hand?¢‚Ǩ¬¶.

I come to the Lounge to relax and talk vintage clothing and related issues. The last thing I want is to get into a political bunfight and add to my daily stress levels. Unfortunately, I do have political opinions and when I see stuff I disagree with it is very hard to avoid getting dragged into the ring. Most of the time I simply grit my teeth and move straight to clothes, but that self-repression in itself can be quite stressful.

It is also clearly the case that a lot of new Loungers rapidly drift away because they find the political stuff a major turn-off. People have actually said this ?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú check Herringbone?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s comment earlier in this thread, and I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve seen several similar comments in the past few months. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m willing to bet that hundreds more have simply passed the site over without even joining, especially given that the most aggressive shouters here have tended to be from the right, while most people into vintage clothes, mid 20th century music, film noir etc tend to lean to the left (in Britain and Europe anyway, I can?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t speak for the US). I personally know several people in the UK who came here, looked, and ran.

On the other hand it is rare to find a forum where such a wide range of political views meet together. That is a very valuable thing. Actual Political forums mostly consist of the like minded talking smugly to the like minded. And ultimately clothing is itself as political an issue as anything else in society. Some of the hottest political barneys here have actually centred on clothing issues.

I think the plain fact is that political threads ?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú and political comment in the allegedly non-political threads - are here to stay. Ultimately it is up to each member to take act like adults and take responsibility for their own behaviour. If you don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t want to debate, don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t. If you want to debate but feel you haven?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t the time or reserves of calm ?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t. And if you do want to debate then please try to avoid personal insults and don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t use aggressive blustering as a substitute for rational argument ?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú and don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t come over all aggrieved if personal insults and aggressive blustering leads to the closure of the thread. But please let?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s not introduce censorship in pursuit of some banal and phoney ?¢‚Ǩ?ìharmony?¢‚Ǩ?.

 

[MudInYerEye]

Well said, as usual.

 

[Mycroft]

Sorry to sorta hyjack, but the problem with the Becoming a Gentleman thread was probelly because of me, see I started the tread with the entions of a totally non-political etc. thread and I just wanted us to synthize our thoughts into a good guide for someone to follow. Where I caused the problem was that I left for 2 weeks or so for a trip without checking up and "steering" the thread back to its "course" of origin. So I take some responsibility for the thread's closing. Shall we try again soon? Anyway, back to your regular programming.

 

[Senator Jack]

Again, I believe the thread really never was hijacked in any way, but was following its natural course. The topic was 'What makes a gentleman?' and certainly that entails a discussion on ethics. It got onto how a few wealthy individuals believe they are gentlemen while their business models are anything but gentlemanly. One or two forum members might have squared off as usual, the vitriol might have come out, but the thread should never have been closed. It was an interesting debate. Period.

I enjoy this forum because it's not just about clothes. I've found that most people here are catholic (that's small "c" and not capital "c") and thus we have discussions about cars, film, literature, music, politics, and philosophy. I would certainly never have an in depth discussion about ethics over at the vintage Mustang forum. That's for fixing my car and that's it.

Okay, I have to get to work this morning so I can't go on about this right now. Perhaps when I get home I'll start a new thread with a not as sarky title and direct everyone here. I did want to hear from more of the regulars.


Cheers and kind regards,

Senator Jack

 

[LaMedicine]

Well, my 2 cents.

I'm not an American, I do not live in the US now--did, quite a while back, as a matter of fact, because of my father's job, the education I received before college was divided almost in equal length of time among a British school (but not in GB), American schools, and in my native country.
As many of you realize, outside of the US, the country's policies are rather unpopular at the moment, and people tend to judge Americans in general by what their government/administration is saying and doing.
So, for me, it has been interesting to follow the political discussions, and realize how diverse in truth everyone's opinion is. It is refreshing, and reassuring as well that there are both push and pull, and center as well. That not everything is as we would see in the media, and journalism would have us see and believe.
Except, of course, when things on rare occasions start looking like a bar room brawl
So, I hope that I will be able to read the many diverse opinions on many more subjects that the members in this Lounge has, for everyone's opinion is very educational.
:cheers1:

 

[Feraud]

I try to stay out of political arguments. I do not mind discussion but these things sometimes go the way of barroom brawls. Granted, this happens less at the Fedora Lounge than anywhere else. The reason is because threads will get locked down. I applaud that! The moderators are telling us in order to participate a certain behavior is demanded. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! The bigger society should follow this example.
Unregulated speech and behavior is a dreamland. This only gives the ones with the louded and aggressive manner (not necessarily right or best) the upper hand. If we belive in Democracy (in whatever form) and being true Gentlemen then we allow everyone the right to speak their mind and agree to disagree.
As an American I sure as heck know this country is big enough for political opinions from the Left, Right and Centre.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

My new years resolution is to steer way clear of anything on this board that will get overtly political just to keep my blood pressure down - although, i must say, i've been surprised by the turn a couple of threads took recently (not the gentleman one, that was a good discussion for a while - though a bit raw towards the end). It seems that the "left"/"right", "conservative"/"liberal" debate (abuse hurling) can be twisted to any topic.

I agree, threads tend to become a bit like that abysmal "crossfire" show on TV. The good thing about the Observation bar is that (unlike "crossfire") the moderators do their job and shut people up (by closing threads). The kind of loudest-guy-wins scenario is the thing i hate about modern debate. The fact that we have to argue using type (so we can easily avoid good points made by others and focus on the ludicrous), often separated by a good number of hours, doesn't make it easy to have flowing discussion. But that's the nature of internet debate, i guess.

To the moderators: Keep on closing threads when they become abusive. Discussion ain't the same as hurling abuse. Thank god the moderators understand that. I've been on other forums where the moderators allow anything to fly in the pursuit of "free speech". It just becomes a haven for flamers, and the people who were interested in the original intention of the site (be it hats, clothing or anything else) simply disappear.

bk

 

[PrettySquareGal]

My new years resolution is to steer way clear of anything on this board that will get overtly political just to keep my blood pressure down - although, i must say, i've been surprised by the turn a couple of threads took recently (not the gentleman one, that was a good discussion for a while - though a bit raw towards the end). It seems that the "left"/"right", "conservative"/"liberal" debate (abuse hurling) can be twisted to any topic.

I agree, threads tend to become a bit like that abysmal "crossfire" show on TV. The good thing about the Observation bar is that (unlike "crossfire") the moderators do their job and shut people up (by closing threads). The kind of loudest-guy-wins scenario is the thing i hate about modern debate. The fact that we have to argue using type (so we can easily avoid good points made by others and focus on the ludicrous), often separated by a good number of hours, doesn't make it easy to have flowing discussion. But that's the nature of internet debate, i guess.

To the moderators: Keep on closing threads when they become abusive. Discussion ain't the same as hurling abuse. Thank god the moderators understand that. I've been on other forums where the moderators allow anything to fly in the pursuit of "free speech". It just becomes a haven for flamers, and the people who were interested in the original intention of the site (be it hats, clothing or anything else) simply disappear.

bk

I made a decision to stop posting and just lurk for the reasons you mention, BK, however my interpretation of them is very different from you and I couldn't not jump in here. I have to say in all honesty that the only problem I had with the Gentleman's thread was some of your comments, like:

"Sorry, when the words "southern gentleman" are used, I can't help thinking of foghorn leghorn."

"That has to be the most ludicrous summation of Karl Marx's philosophy I've ever heard."

"Just pushing some buttons."

Even those comments weren't directed at me, I was taken aback by them. I see them as intentionally hurtful.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I made a decision to stop posting and just lurk for the reasons you mention, BK, however my interpretation of them is very different from you and I couldn't not jump in here. I have to say in all honesty that the only problem I had with the Gentleman's thread was some of your comments, like:

"Sorry, when the words "southern gentleman" are used, I can't help thinking of foghorn leghorn."

"That has to be the most ludicrous summation of Karl Marx's philosophy I've ever heard."

"Just pushing some buttons."

Even those comments weren't directed at me, I was taken aback by them. I see them as intentionally hurtful.

The first is a joke, but also actually what i think. Foghorn Leghorn thinks he's a gent. He was a joke initially put forth by the cartoonists - on the stereotyped bombastic, machismo obsessed, southern gent. I take no credit for it.

The second is a rather accurate statement regarding someone's summation of Marx as looking for "anything but capitalism". I stand by it.

The third was rather flippant, and for that i apologise. I was getting sick of the argument by then.

I can't understand how anyone could see those comments as being hurtful. Certainly the posters they were directed at seemed to take them with a pinch of salt as intended. None are personal attacks, so far as i can see. No name calling, judgements etc.

If you (and others) go through that thread you'll see at least 3 attempts by me to direct the thread away from the socialism angle. I didn't think that's where the thread was intended to go or where it was appropriate to go. It was dragged back there by others. I eventually gave up on the thread because it was clear that it wasn't going anywhere interesting any more.

Believe me, i restrained myself - as i'm sure others did - because i didn't necessarily want the thread to be closed, and certainly not because of me. But really, the thread was quite mild mannered. Everyone, i think, acted like gentlemen.

bk

 

[PrettySquareGal]

The first is a joke, but also actually what i think. Foghorn Leghorn thinks he's a gent. He was a joke initially put forth by the cartoonists - on the stereotyped bombastic, machismo obsessed, southern gent. I take no credit for it....I can't understand how anyone could see those comments as being hurtful. Certainly the posters they were directed at seemed to take them with a pinch of salt as intended. None are personal attacks, so far as i can see. No name calling, judgements etc....bk

I was wrong to say "intentionally hurtful," but I will say that my style is very different from yours. I could just be an overly sensitive lady. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[jamespowers]

The second is a rather accurate statement regarding someone's summation of Marx as looking for "anything but capitalism". I stand by it.

Interestingly I got that as a quote from Marx but you can read it for yourself. It doesn't matter to me nor did the statement. It was not worth argueing over since I know where it comes from. You sort of have to let things fly by because addressing every point gets to be like writing War and Peace. People long tire of the long posts. A few paragraphs usually does it but sometimes.....
As bartending goes, there is a certain amount of give and take. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

P.S. Are Nick and Jessica getting back together? What a title! Hahahhahahahahah!

 

[Senator Jack]

Does everyone really get so enraged over these discussions? Can no one debate without having to take heart medication? Is anyone else out there objective? Why are the freethinkers letting the insular get under their skin? Their insults are not new - we should all be used to them by now. I'm baffled, perplexed, bemused, take your pick.

If I weren't going to post to any threads that were insulting, I'd have very few to choose from. Has anyone else noticed some of the user names/profiles around this forum? (DO NOT POST THEM IF YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!) Even in the clothing threads there are some posts that insult. Read closely.

Good debate is the only way to open up people's eyes. If the rights come up with a good argument as to why the rich shouldn't pay taxes, I might even change my mind about them. (Granted, it would have to be a pretty airtight argument) And perhaps a clear argument from the left might even get some of those rights to rethink their contempt for minorities, foreigners, etc.

I'm against closing threads; I'm for booting out the insular. If a bartender knows it's time to close a thread, he/she knows when it's time to 86 a loudmouth.

Regards,

Senator Jack