What to do about sloppy spelling?

[jake_fink]

And I'm glad we're not all using webcams. What would you have to say about the state of my robe, or me flamin' barnet!?!

 

[Wild Root]

 

[The Wolf]

I've noticed this

I have read posts with awful spelling and wrong words used. I have thought "Don't these people look at what they are writing?".
Then I titled a post "Het gang, let's write a story".
The thread did well and every time I looked at it I was reminded that I absently wrote "het" instead of "hey". I became more forgiving after that.

However, writing there for their or they're is something up with which I shall not put.

The Wolf

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

het

I have read posts with awful spelling and wrong words used. I have thought "Don't these people look at what they are writing?".
Then I titled a post "Het gang, let's write a story".
The thread did well and every time I looked at it I was reminded that I absently wrote "het" instead of "hey". I became more forgiving after that.

However, writing there for their or they're is something up with which I shall not put.

The Wolf

That's an easy one to do , as the Y key is adjacent to the T. Tou are forgiven.

 

[matei]

Hear hear (hmm... or is it "here here")?

Good call... In this day and age of automated spellcheckers there should be no excuse for poor spelling. I do understand some folks are dyslexic or something along those lines, but still... There really is no excuse!

That being said - I'm sure I'm just as guilty as the next fella (fellow). I have to admit that I'm at a slight disadvantage here, I never studied English grammar in school. I did encounter it later on when I went to university and I was at a total loss. I've had to learn "on the fly".

I don't know where English is headed, but it doesn't bode well. I realise that it is a living, evolving language - but certainly some safeguards need to be established, akin to the body the French have that looks after the preservation of the French language. If not - the language will deteriorate into some kind of weird 'netspeak patios - like "Cityspeak" in Blade Runner. No one will know exactly how to spell what they are saying, and we'll end up with nations full of unarticulate idiots.

We moved to the UK from Ireland and we expected that at least the Brits would be able to speak/spell their own language. Oh my... we were in for a surprise! There is not a day that goes by where I don't encounter serious mistakes in spelling or garbled grammar.

We also lived in the US - and the situation there was as bad. (note that I'm not saying that Ireland is without flaw... try speaking to someone from Cork on the phone - good luck)

Is the problem with the education (or lack of)? I know that no one is ever called on the carpet in the workplace because of their atrocious spelling - perhaps they should be?

The above rant notwithstanding, be thankful that English isn't being overrun by another foreign language - a "linguistic takeover" if you will...

I'm bilingual (we speak Romanian at home) and it kills me to speak with friends or watch TV and hear foreign terms and expressions imported wholesale into the language - when there are perfectly acceptable native terms. I'll often make it a point to use the Romanian word for something instead of the cool or flash foreign word (which is often rendered unintelligible due to its pronunciation with a Romanian accent).

Ah well - this is a different topic - sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[Johnnysan]

Sounds to me as if someone has a bit too much time on their hands...

 

[fedoralover]

I guess it makes some people feel superior when they set themselves up as an "Expert" and then they can always be correcting someone about something. Of course we all know what the definition of an "Ex---spurt" is.

fedoralover

 

[Lauren]

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he means the public in general, and not just the Fedora Lounge folks.

I admit I can misspell words, but not as likely as some, I like to think.
I can't spell computor, I can't spell being, I can't spell reccomended.

Butt sinc whin dus speling mattur?

 

[Nathan Flowers]

.

I think Mr. Chevalier started this thread in an attempt to be coy regarding other people posting about "What to do about sloppy dressers".

I got it, but I don't think most of the people here did. I think I can say with some assurance: It's a joke.

That fact that so many of us took it seriously is somewhat discouraging, but still humorous.

 

[Senator Jack]

Okay, now you're not being fair to the pedants. Why aren't knowledgeable people allowed to speak their minds any more? I believe if experts spoke up more often, there'd be a lot less mediocrity in this world. The trick is to avoid condescendence.

Bebop and I had a good thread about grammar running back in October. We were similarly criticized. The point we had made is that words and grammar are a journalists stock in trade - that's their whole job: report the news using clear, correct, understandable English. How few seem to grasp that concept. Is there even a dictionary around at the local station? Words are misused, and number never seems to agree with noun (Whatever happened to "are"? There are two days till St. Patrick's. But we hear, 'There's two days till St. Patrick's. This, on television news.)

Yes, big difference between formal and informal writing and speaking. I'm sure I should be consulting my Strunk and White for some comma placements in this post, but I'll save that for my formal writing.

P.S. If anyone is thinking of taking me up on the use of 'any more' as opposed to 'anymore', that's another argument we can get into.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I used to be a bit of a spelling Nazi. When grading exams, I was taking points off for poor english. I got over it (largely because i was taking too (note, two Os ) many points off). So long as people get your meaning, what does it matter.

As for misuse of phrases and words: when our politicians can't take the time to get their rhetoric and vocabulary sorted out, why should everyone else? Orwell was complaining about this (in one of the best essays on language ever written) 60 years ago. Nothing has changed.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

P.S. If anyone is thinking of taking me up on the use of 'any more' as opposed to 'anymore', that's another argument we can get into.

Regards,

Senator Jack

Perhaps it could be linked to a discussion of "everyday"

bk - pedant extraordinaire

 

[herringbonekid]

can anyone tell me why Americans habitually use the phrase 'off of' instead of just 'off' ?

i.e. "please take that hat off of the table"

is it taught as being gramatically correct ?

 

[BellyTank]

...an "of the manor born" fashion.

Isn't it 'To the Manor born'..?

B
T

 

[Baron Kurtz]

can anyone tell me why Americans habitually use the phrase 'off of' instead of just 'off' ?

i.e. "please take that hat off of the table"

is it taught as being gramatically correct ?

Some Scots do it too. With "of" shortened to o' or a'

Perhaps it counts as a colloquialism?

bk

 

[jamespowers]

Isn't it 'To the Manor born'..?

B
T

Depends what side of the ocean you are on.
I don't mind correcting usage and spelling in commercially produced products and for business but doing it in a casual context is still rude. This would be a casual context. If I read a book, magazine or newspaper and it is wrong then that is another story.
By the way, if you want to post something in jest please use the emoticons to the right of your screen when posting the message and try not to post the same thing in three different areas.

Regards,

J

 

[jake_fink]

Whatever happened to "are"? There are two days till St. Patrick's. But we hear, 'There's two days till St. Patrick's. This, on television news.

But of course you meant to write: "...two days UNTIL St. Patrick's [Day]" as time is not a plot of earth to be ploughed.

please take that hat off of the table

That is absolutely incorrect as it contains a misplaced preposition.


There are two types of language, essentially: natural language, the way people talk, converse, communicate in a spontaneous way; and formal language which is written and conforms to a set or sets of rules. Communication on the internet is caught between the two types, it lacks the intonation and gestures of natural language while it is far more spontaneous than formal language tends to be. It's a given that different forms of expression will develop, forms such as emoticons, abreviations or deliberate misspellings. But, it's also necessary to ensure that the message is, at the very least, clear, if not lucid. So, as to the question, What to do about sloppy spelling? I'll take the same approach as I do to the question, What to do about sloppy dressing? I'll quietly wish that everyone could be almost as perfect as me.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Herein (in fact, therein) lies the problem with English, an evolving language. Rules are not hard and fast. Ending a sentence with a preposition? What about beginning a sentence with "And" or "But"? The ancient rules that are adhered to in the likes of Strunck and White are sometimes no longer relevant (such things as placing commas - ever read a scientific paper from before 1960?). Many of these rules are straight from Latin: a much more rigid, less fluid language than English. They simply make English convoluted and more difficult to understand. Ridiculous illustration, but let me:

Churchill: "... a proposition up-with which i will not put"

Write how you talk!!!!

bk

 

[Senator Jack]

Can of worms opened by Jake Fink:

But of course you meant to write: "...two days UNTIL St. Patrick's [Day]

I stand by the correct form till, and not until, as backed up by Fowler himself:

till, until - The early history of the two words in medE, as set down with great thoroughness in the OED, is complicated. It is not true, for example, that till is a shortened form of until: in fact till is the earlier of the two. The present distribution is no less complicated. One can declare, with the COD, that 'Until is used, especially at the beginning of a sentence', but that doesn't take us far. One can also assert with reasonable accuracy that until is fractionally more formal that till : this might account for the fact that until occurs much more frequently in edited prose (including fiction). In practice until is six times more likely than till to turn up in such work.

Believing until a bit pompous, Kingsley Amis favored till in his own work; I certainly I favor it in mine, for I think the 'un' part is quite unnecessary. Of course, 'til is right out.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I had an argument with the Baroness a while ago about till/until. We went to OED and found that both were correct.

bk