What some think is a "Proper" 40s look...

[Forgotten Man]

John, I saw some suits on that page that looked very classy... some colors were pretty bright but, I own a few pieces of clothes from the 40s that are close to those shades. So, a number of suits offered on that site are rather authentic. Also, the cut and drape seen on most of the suits they sell seem to have the right look. There are some modern takes on the Zoot but, they're not too bad.

Now, for the record, original 40s Zoots were made mainly from regular suiting... bold chalk stripes, windowpanes, hounds tooth and such that we find some times in period vintage, was also used in the construction of Zoots. Solid colors were also used, but all mainly gabardine and worsted wools. No neon or fire engine reds and such... just regular fabrics we find most vintage suits are made of. And they can look pretty classy.

 

[John in Covina]

Here is another place that is offering Zoot suits. On the page if you click on the swatch piece they show you the appropriate zoot suit. Some of these look pretty sharp.

http://www.elpachuco.com/pachucoindex.html

 

[John in Covina]

http://www.zootsuitstore.com/Shopping/Catalog/zootsuit.asp?wf=0&vall=1

The actual Zoot suits come up on the bottom six rows.

Many of the Stacy Adams suits are meant to appeal to those guys that have the self assurance to be a "Dandy" and is definately over the top.

 

[Inky]

Here is another place that is offering Zoot suits. On the page if you click on the swatch piece they show you the appropriate zoot suit. Some of these look pretty sharp.

http://www.elpachuco.com/pachucoindex.html

El Pachuco makes beautiful well-made suits. I have a friend who has been buying from them for over 10 years now and the suits are gorgeous. I prefer the traditional suiting fabrics to the loud garish colors

 

[Fletch]

I hope that isnt ISU as in Iowa State University.... cause thats where I went, and I'd hate for the place to get THAT kind of reputation...

Unfortunately yes. I pegged the blue and gold fire hydrants immediately.

My other impression, after 2 weeks back at ISU, is that wearing that rig to class would probably cause less of a stir than wearing a non-satirical vintage suit, hat, etc.

What you wear on this campus is not super important, as long as it doesn't send conflicting messages. In an obvious costume, at least folks would know you were kidding.

The date is undoubtedly Oct. 31 - when wet flurries are not unheard of here.

 

[thunderw21]

My other impression, after 2 weeks back at ISU, is that wearing that rig to class would probably cause less of a stir than wearing a non-satirical vintage suit, hat, etc.

What you wear on this campus is not super important, as long as it doesn't send conflicting messages. In an obvious costume, at least folks would know you were kidding.

This is unfortunately true. I know 'cause I live 15 miles from the ISU campus. Either you dress like everyone else or you dress so crazy everyone knows you're not serious. Sad but true. [huh]



These trousers look interesting. 24" cuffs would put them into the Oxford Bag catagory.
http://www.zootsuitstore.com/Shopping/Catalog/product_detail.asp?ProductCode=ZSZPP1550

Hmm...

 

[resortes805]

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Well, it's flashy, but not a true zoot suit.

There is an undercurrent of zoot suits in the Southern California area.

Here is one place the offers some, i don't know how authentic they are, but they sure seem better than that Halloween outfit.
http://www.zootsuitstore.com/Shopping/Catalog/zootsuit.asp?wf=0&vall=1

I've been to Siegal's (the brick and mortar establishment behind zoot suit store.com). I was'nt impressed with their suits, but I was impressed with their footwear and workwear; they have every Ben Davis item possible, as well as the vintage cut "county" work jeans that are popular amongst Latino youth. Although many are'nt fans, I actually really appreciate the look of Stacy Adams shoes, and they have a large variety of styles, and even have some discontinued styles in stock. As I mentioned, I was'nt impressed with their zoot suits, or any other suits that they had in stock.

El Pachuco makes beautiful well-made suits. I have a friend who has been buying from them for over 10 years now and the suits are gorgeous. I prefer the traditional suiting fabrics to the loud garish colors

Most may know this, but I've been going to El Pachuco for zoot suits and other reproductions since I was 15 years old! I bring them my own material and garments or illustrations that I want them to reproduce and they have never let me down.

These trousers look interesting. 24" cuffs would put them into the Oxford Bag catagory.
http://www.zootsuitstore.com/Shopping/Catalog/product_detail.asp?ProductCode=ZSZPP1550

I have these slacks (although I did'nt get them from Siegals). I would'nt consider them Oxford Bags, they have more of a late 1930's early 1940's look. These are the same slacks that Powerhouse was selling awhile back.

 

[thunderw21]

I have these slacks (although I did'nt get them from Siegals). I would'nt consider them Oxford Bags, they have more of a late 1930's early 1940's look. These are the same slacks that Powerhouse was selling awhile back.

Thanks for the correction. How do you like them? Does the fabric drape well?

 

[Dr Doran]

Is Siegals the place on Mission Boulevard in San Francisco?

 

[John in Covina]

Is Siegals the place on Mission Boulevard in San Francisco?

*************
On the zoot suit store web site if you get to a page with the contact us button hit it and it lists the Siegel store address on Mission.

 

[resortes805]

Thanks for the correction. How do you like them? Does the fabric drape well?

I really like them, but they are only available in poly or linen. I have a pair in Black linen. I don't like they way their pleats looks, so I usually were a pull-over shirt or vest with a waistband that covers the top of the slacks. I believe Scotrace also has a pair in linen.

Is Siegals the place on Mission Boulevard in San Francisco?

Sure is.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

These trousers look interesting. 24" cuffs would put them into the Oxford Bag catagory.

Too wide for bags. Originals are 22" max, according to the period press cuttings. (22" was absolutely massive for the middle 1920s; the abominations from the early 30s, largely from outside England, were mere pastiche - caricatures of the real deal.)

The initial suit in this thread is an abomination. I'm sorry to offend others here by saying that the one Benny posted is almost its equal. A very, very bad idea. I have never seen a flattering zoot suit. Perhaps that was their purpose … so outlandish that they cause a scene/statement. In any case, very bad cut.

bk

 

[resortes805]

I'm sorry to offend others here by saying that the one Benny posted is almost its equal.

bk

No apology needed Baron, I've always appreciated your opinions on this board. Much like modern hip hop wear, the zoot suit look is meant to signify something to members of the sub-culture and everyone else be damned. That 'something' may represent teenage rebellion, an affinity or jazz and hepkat culture, or something else entirely. Teenagers have'nt changed that much in 60 years; ask a hip hop kid to explain their fashion sense to you and they'll roll their eyes at you, thinking "Either you get it, or you don't."

I doubt that the teenagers that wore zoot suits were consciously wearing their drapes to shock the bourgeoisie. They honestly felt they looked sharp, and that's why they dressed that way. In retrospect, the zoot suit is quite the fashion anomaly: the incredulous pairing of Fitted Edwardian jackets with high waisted "Genie" pants. But I've always dug them.

 

[Benny Holiday]

I'm with Resortes, Baron. Your knowledge and opinions are highly valued and respected, and have evolved from your own journey into the world of vintage clothing. We've all come to our appreciations of vintage menswear from different backgrounds and viewpoints. Being individuals, we're not all going to like precisely the same thing, even if we're in the same general ballpark.

On the other hand, it does amaze me that two guys who live on opposite sides of the globe, that is Resortes and myself, can have such similar taste when it comes to clothing!

 

[DerMann]

From what I've read, mostly online (of course), Zoot suits were made popular by Latinos (the word Zoot coming from the Hispanic corruption of the word suit) during the years of WWII as a form of rebellion (instead of saving wool, they were wearing as much of it as they could). The only people who actually bought into the style were teenagers and the aforementioned Latinos. All of the contemporary sources that I have seen ridicule the Zoot suit and the people who wear them.

E.g.:

There's a WWII Disney cartoon in which Donald Duck has to choose between buying war bonds or blowing it at a bar/brothel. He is torn between two figments of his imagination - a patriotic Scrooge McDuck and a fast talking copy of himself wearing a Zoot suit. Later the duck in the Zoot suit is morphed to look like Adolf Hitler. As there were wool shortages in the US, wearing such extravagant suits would only imply that one was not doing one's bit for the war. Thus, Zoot suits were almost universally hated in the US.


Unfortunately, Zoot suits did manage to create such an uproar in the 1940s that they became a symbol of the era. While many more people were in three, or the increasingly more popular, two piece single breasted notched lapel suits (and pants without cuffs), the Zoot suit stood out more against its more conservative opposition.

What this means is that people (especially teens, again, but for different reasons) looking for a "vintage look" are almost instantaneously drawn to Zoot suits and the ridiculous hats that follow them. I know several people who went to prom in Zoot suits, and they looked ridiculous (one of the chaps I knew was rather short and wore a completely white Zoot suit with white basketball shoes).

Luckily most people pass by Zoot suits as they may not be adventurous enough to try them.

Sometimes Zoot suits can look presentable. Just so long as they aren't in a ridiculous colour or pattern, and the hat doesn't have that bally feather.

Note: Here is the video I am referencing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ69X1qt4sQ

 

[Forgotten Man]

I beg to differ on the "Oxford Bag" stats... I own a few pairs of 30s pants... and they're not "Oxford Bags"... just pants from a lost suit... and they have 23" cuffed bottoms... and my English double breasted is 23" at the cuff. The standard here in the states during the 30s was about 20" which isn't really that much. I believe Marc posted photos of real oxford bags... they were around this size:

Anything around 20"-23" were just stove pipes... straight legs that were rather mainstream fashion here in North America.

My self, I'm not crazy about Zoots... but, when their made from tasteful period suiting, I find them unique and fun to see which reflects upon the history of Southern California during the 40s.

 

[resortes805]

From what I've read, mostly online (of course), Zoot suits were made popular by Latinos (the word Zoot coming from the Hispanic corruption of the word suit) during the years of WWII as a form of rebellion (instead of saving wool, they were wearing as much of it as they could).

Kinda-sorta. The zoot suit is both an actual suit, but it is also a look. In other threads we discussed that many teens could'nt afford a zoot suit, so they would piece together something that would pass, either by wearing their dad's suit or getting second hand clothing that was too big and having them taken in to their size.

There have been claims to the origins of the zoot suit from Blacks, Chicanos, Filipinos, and even a white t

 

[resortes805]

On the other hand, it does amaze me that two guys who live on opposite sides of the globe, that is Resortes and myself, can have such similar taste when it comes to clothing!

Yeah man! Here's basically a "real" version of the costume suit that started this thread.

 

[Inky]

Yeah man! Here's basically a "real" version of the costume suit that started this thread.

Wowza! You look so great! Really sharp, Resortes805!

fftopic: We live just up the Coast from you near Pismo - you'll have to tell me what's fun to do around these parts dressed like that - I'm dying to get the hubby into a zoot suit.

Call me impressed!

 

[resortes805]

I actually scanned and posted this image. The baggy "Smokey Joe" brand slacks that the swing dancers like and that Siegals sells, are most like trouser style "H" from the Walter Field catalog above. American collegiate slacks, which are often called Oxford Bags, (but are really not) had more of a flare to them, as seen in the Sears Catalog pictures. The Oxford bags debate rages on.