What seperates "golden era" from "midcentury"?

[tonyb]

And the public couldn't get enough of it.

Most "modern" consumer stuff was indeed shoddy, but surely not all. I have some modernist stuff around here (furniture, mostly) that's going strong after five-plus decades of regular use. But, you know, it wasn't (and isn't) the cheap stuff. The wooden stuff is built of good wood, the metal of good metal, et cetera.

As I noted earlier in this thread, much of the what we think of as post-war modernist style was around well before the war. People unversed in such things would be forgiven for thinking that that the Mies van der Rohe Barcelona chair dated from 1992, rather than 1929, as is the actual case. (Oh, and the real ones, as contrasted with the much more plentiful knockoffs, are quite durable indeed.)

Planned obsolescence run amok can be witnessed at any Ikea store. Many people apparently now regard furniture and housewares as transitory and "consumable" as clothing. While entering the big Blue and Yellow in Renton, Wash. one day the summer before last I overheard a young man utter to the young woman on his arm, "the key to Ikea's success is they know how to make cheap **** look good."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Of course, most people weren't buying the high-end stuff -- which is why the name-designer examples fetch such prices today as they do. Most of the suburban ranch houses of the postwar era were furnished with the sort of stuff you got at the local Friendly Kredit Furniture Emporium. My parents bought a bunch of this stuff when they got married in 1959, even though they lived in a cold-water walkup, and most of it had fallen apart before it was paid off -- I still remember the thud when my overweight uncle sat on the couch and collapsed it.

Contrast this to their bedroom set, which was second-hand goods dating to about 1910, and which my mother is still using today.

 

[Horace Debussy Jones]

I would have been the old square guy down the street that kept all my old fashioned art deco furnishings. Chairs that could actually be sat upon, shelves that would support books, appliances made of solid oak.
They could keep all their spindly-legged cheesy modern junk. :lol:
The majority of the furniture my parents had was from the 1920s or so, handed down to them from their parents. My sister still has the old oak dining room set, going strong for almost 100 years now.

 

[Edward]

And the public couldn't get enough of it.

Most "modern" consumer stuff was indeed shoddy, but surely not all. I have some modernist stuff around here (furniture, mostly) that's going strong after five-plus decades of regular use. But, you know, it wasn't (and isn't) the cheap stuff. The wooden stuff is built of good wood, the metal of good metal, et cetera.

As I noted earlier in this thread, much of the what we think of as post-war modernist style was around well before the war. People unversed in such things would be forgiven for thinking that that the Mies van der Rohe Barcelona chair dated from 1992, rather than 1929, as is the actual case. (Oh, and the real ones, as contrasted with the much more plentiful knockoffs, are quite durable indeed.)




Planned obsolescence run amok can be witnessed at any Ikea store. Many people apparently now regard furniture and housewares as transitory and "consumable" as clothing. While entering the big Blue and Yellow in Renton, Wash. one day the summer before last I overheard a young man utter to the young woman on his arm, "the key to Ikea's success is they know how to make cheap **** look good."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

There's certainly cheap and nasty in IKEA, if priced accordingly. I've known a lot of folks who live in rental accomodation and have to move around a lot (the nature of the London rental market) buy all their furniture in IKEA and then just leave it every time they move, as it's cheaper and easier than getting removers, and so few folks here drive. IKEA also has its higher end too. I have two beautiful, free-standing, solid pine wardrobes in a very classic style that I bought in there fourteen years or so ago, still going strong. I'd be very surprised if they don't outlast me. Some decent bookcases, too (save the malaise of all modern bookcases, where they assume nobody really reads any more, so the shelves are a bit far apart and don't make the most efficient use of their frame....).

 

[tonyb]

I happen to have an Ikea couch, a "Klippan" model, in black leather, which retails new for 500 USD. Found mine secondhand on Craigslist for 50 bucks. Let the cat claw the damn thing, eh?

Is it good ****? Of course not. But it is a very nice design, and it plays well with the other swag around here. And without kids trampolining on it, it'll last long enough for my purposes.

More than 20 years ago a friend converted a decidedly down-at-the-heel century-old house into an up-and-down duplex. He did an exceptionally nice job of it, respecting and in many cases enhancing the original architecture by undoing various "improvements" inflicted on it by previous owners. In the upstairs unit he put in Ikea kitchen cabinets, for which he had to drive up to Vancouver, B.C. (from Seattle), because Ikea had no stores in the Seattle area then. (When did they open in the States?) Indeed, that was the first I had ever heard of Ikea. The upshot is that those cabinets are holding up well. So yeah, the spendier stuff at Ikea is apparently in the "at least not bad" category.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^^

Although I can't even begin to recall all the very sturdy original-to-the-structure kitchen cabinets I've seen torn out and replaced by clearly inferior stuff, which, in most cases, I suspect, will itself be torn out and replaced within a couple of decades.

Alas, people tend to take inordinate pride in their kitchen remodels, so I bite my tongue.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There is no greater example of modern throwaway culture than the "remodel the kitchen" fad. And it's no concidence that when you walk into the typical bank these days you see posters and brochures for home-equity loans and other debt products that show Mrs. Sally Suburb dreaming wistfully of granite countertops and laminate cabinetry. As always, The Boys are driving these trends for all they're worth.

 

[tonyb]

If only it were just a fad, eh?

Seems that ripping out kitchens and putting in the latest stuff (are granite countertops just too 20-aughts yet?) is keeping-up-with-the-Joneses writ with multiple zeroes. Makes me wonder what people have against actually owning their domicile, rather than constantly finding new ways to be indebted over it.

Bought a new gas stove a few years back. The salesperson alluded to something about replacing major kitchen appliances every so many years.

Huh? Why would I wish to replace this stove in a few years? A friend is using one that's gotta be older than I am. Works fine -- for him, if not for the appliance salespeople of this world. And the loan officers. And the remodeling contractors. And the Korean factory workers.

 

[Fading Fast]

There is no greater example of modern throwaway culture than the "remodel the kitchen" fad. And it's no concidence that when you walk into the typical bank these days you see posters and brochures for home-equity loans and other debt products that show Mrs. Sally Suburb dreaming wistfully of granite countertops and laminate cabinetry. As always, The Boys are driving these trends for all they're worth.

I assume you are using "The Boys" as a old-style phrase not as an accurate description because my experience is that many marketers today are women and, maybe or maybe not oddly, they are as aggressive about pushing certain adversing stereotypes that are unfavorable to women as the men are.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I call them "The Boys" for just that reason. Their overt use of sexual stereotyping is just as pernicious today as it was during the "Mad Men" era -- no matter what the plumbing arrangements of the marketer in question.

 

[LizzieMaine]

If only it were just a fad, eh?

Seems that ripping out kitchens and putting in the latest stuff (are granite countertops just too 20-aughts yet?) is keeping-up-with-the-Joneses writ with multiple zeroes. Makes me wonder what people have against actually owning their domicile, rather than constantly finding new ways to be indebted over it.

Bought a new gas stove a few years back. The salesperson alluded to something about replacing major kitchen appliances every so many years.

Huh? Why would I wish to replace this stove in a few years? A friend is using one that's gotta be older than I am. Works fine -- for him, if not for the appliance salespeople of this world. And the loan officers. And the remodeling contractors. And the Korean factory workers.

The "vanity kitchen" trend really got going in the '80s, around the time people stopped living actual lives and had "lifestyles" instead. I've never been in a remodeled "modern" kitchen that didn't reek of a very specific kind of post-Reagan-era insincerity.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

I don't presume to know why people do what they do. I don't presume to know their motivations or political or cultural inspirations. I only know my friends, family, and associates. Speaking anecdotal gives insight unto the whole without the broad generalizations and arrogance emerging from placing thoughts and aspirations into other's brains.

With that as preamble, these are my thoughts.

Kitchens have always been the heart of the house, so their importance cannot be underestimated. Remember also that kitchens are getting more like commercial kitchens with the rise of foodie culture and I for one see this as a very good thing. As you begin to cook more you search for more implements to do more things. A simple electric stove will not due because you need fire to sauté. If you have the means, you may put in a Viking range. Maybe there is a brag factor in this, maybe not. For people I know, it is about the food, and once they start thinking of the food, then they think about the ingredients. This sends them on a search for organic local fare and this is good for everyone. I imagine that this may be part of the reason why people upgrade their kitchen. It certainly has been for my friends.

Also, let's not forget that, in a rising market like mine, a modest investment in an updated kitchen has an immediate impact on the resale value of a home. So, if someone plans to sell one day, they can maximize value while enjoying a better kitchen. So the banker that finances that updated kitchen is both making a better life for the homeowner and helping them to maintain the value in their most precious investment. There is nothing wrong about this on any side.

Granite counters are probably popular because they are awesome. You can sit anything on them without a scratch. This goes for slate and quartz as well. I have found it indispensable to rest a hot pot on the counter while I do something or another. Someone wanting the safety and convenience of this seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Nevertheless, I do remember one summer day when I was working my way through college doing flooring that I watched a homeowner in suburban Philadelphia pull out 1950s era 57-Chevy-blue appliances and cabinets, because, yes, they all matched! Refrigerator, oven, cabinets, and I believe dishwasher (if they were around then, I know that there were more appliances than two). This was around 1987. So, this amazing kitchen went to the curb, but before I left that day, a truck had shown up and some enterprising gentlemen from the city were loading all of this onto the vehicle.

"What are you going to do with all of this?" I asked.

"We're taking up to NY. This kitchen is worth a fortune in Manhattan. We'll swap out the compressors and all of the outdated inefficient mechanisms and update all of this, keep the bodies, and sell it for tens of thousands."

That made me feel much better.

 

[LizzieMaine]

"We're taking up to NY. This kitchen is worth a fortune in Manhattan. We'll swap out the compressors and all of the outdated inefficient mechanisms and update all of this, keep the bodies, and sell it for tens of thousands."

That made me feel much better.

The sad part of that story is that, as inefficient as a late-fifties refrigerator was -- and it was far more so than a prewar model -- the mechanisms available in the 80s were the absolute nadir of refrigeration design, in both quality and efficiency, so such an upgrade was a long way from being an improvement. I hope the purchaser got a good warranty.

Ranges? I've seen Vikings in action, and I don't see that they offer any particular working advantage over my grandmother's old kerosene/Pyrofax-burning Florence. A stove's a stove, whether you're cooking on it or keeping your feet warm in the oven.

As far as countertops go, I don't see what the particular practical advantage to granite is over the slab of butcher's wood I salvaged and screwed onto an old utility table. I can cut on it -- without dulling my knives -- I can sit a hot pot or frying pan on it, and the more beat up and scratched-looking it gets, the more character it has. And it didn't cost me anything.


Edited to add: There's an excellent analysis of the class-driven aspects of the modern "trophy kitchen" phenomenon here.

 

[tonyb]

We all got our anecdotes, eh? The pot meets the kettle.

Perhaps people are naturally drawn to the novel. That's true of me, to at least some degree. You know, show me something I haven't seen before. But the new wears off.

The home in which I spent several of my childhood years was built in the early 1950s (give or take). An uncle, an experienced car painter, turned those true-to-period white metal kitchen cabinets a tan color. That was bordering on the outrageous, by the standards of that time (early 1960s) and place (Upper Midwest). Stoves and refrigerators came in white back then, at least in my neighborhood, as did those working-class steel cabinets.

I'd be willing to bet that the kitchen in that house (I haven't set foot in it in nearly 50 years, although I have driven past on a few occasions) has been redone at least once over the years. Kitchen (and bathroom) remo's are often mostly in not quite entirely practical, and necessary. Little plumbing leaks left unaddressed lead to rot, which might well necessitate tearing out everything above the floor joists.

I'd be willing to bet also that in whatever ways that house has been reworked over the years, those steel cabinets are long gone. And I'd be further willing to wager that those steel cabinets would fetch a price today that would stun my old uncle.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My mother got doubletalked into taking out her steel cabinets by a "home improvement" specialist, and the replacements fell apart before the end of the eighties. They're still in place, but the doors are held together by duct tape.

Meanwhile, the steel cabinets remain in her cellar. I've offered to clean them up and reinstall them for her, but she doesn't want to be bothered. But it's a pretty good guess she won't be listening to any "home improvement specialists" any time again.

She does, however, still have the icebox in the kitchen that was in the cellar when we moved in fifty years ago. She uses it to store bills, and as a stand for the four microwaves she's gone thru since 1985.

 

[tonyb]

Yeah, you gotta love microwaves. I've gotten to where I buy the best-looking one (or the least bad-looking one), seeing how I'll likely be replacing it before long anyway.

The place we just moved into has a microwave incorporated into the range hood. I suspect the microwave part will become storage space within a few years.

Oh, and the cabinets here are just for ****. Flimsy. The previous residence (we maintain ownership) was built in 1992, but it was built well. The cabinets there are definitely of their period, but the doors and sides are solid oak. I envision no reason, short of catastrophe, ever to replace them.

 

[Tuesday_Next]

I have the original 1950 kitchen in my home -- 60+ year-old ceramic tile counter tops, wood cabinets that have rusty hinges and warping from water and too many layers of paint. I would try to save them all but I know that if I want to resell the house, I need to "update" my kitchen for modern tastes.

Sad but true.

 

[tonyb]

I wouldn't dispute any of that, Ms. Next. The real estate people know this stuff a whole lot better than I ever will. But still, a person just can't help but wonder just how self-fulfilling such market "truths" actually are.

Even if I wished a 2014 kitchen in a 1950 house, I would prefer that kitchen be to my specification, and not that of the previous owner. You know, whatever savings on the sales price that might be gotten by leaving the existing kitchen essentially as-is could be put into the kitchen the buyer would rather have.

I suspect the real estate folks would suggest that a house with such a "dated" kitchen would be much likelier to languish on the market, even at a price that reflected that "deficit." And they're probably right. People just want to move in. Now. Me, I've never had that luxury. Every house I've gotten into needed at minimum a few hundred bucks worth of paint and a couple of tons of elbow grease.

 

[LizzieMaine]

When my house was appraised prior to my purchasing it this summer the fact that the kitchen was original and was "restored to a period configuration" was considered a plus. Granted, I bought it intending to live here until I die, so reselling isn't important, but I have no intention of ever "updating" it.

 

[tonyb]

Oh, by the way, an old friend recently sold her 1920s (I think) house. Got her price for it, too. She had been "restoring" the place, inside and out, for all the years she lived there. So the place was quite clean -- fresh paint, refinished oak floors downstairs, fir upstairs, et cetera. Replaced service panel and plumbing, recent roof. The kitchen and the bathroom were very much as they were when the place was built. The bath got new tile, but ceramic tile very much suiting the house's period. The gas stove was a rebuilt period unit she found while visiting a family member down in SoCal. She loaded that old soldier into the back of her Ford Ranger and cleaned it up good as new. Repaired the original kitchen cabinetry and the tile on the counters and walls. Installed checkerboard linoleum on the floor and put in a schoolhouse ceiling fixture (that didn't come cheap, but it was money well spent).