What Price Glory A-2 Jacket

[rolando_ol]

If I'm 39" chest, but 5'7 height and want a snug fit, should i order a medium or large?

 

[Big J]

Well, I spend that kind of money because I have the proportions of a gorilla, instead of the proportions of a 1940's teenager who grew up malnourished by the Great Depression. I'm simply not thin and boney enough for a super trim fit jacket.

 

[RailRoad]

If I'm 39" chest, but 5'7 height and want a snug fit, should i order a medium or large?

If it were me I'd go with a medium. I'm a 42"-5'8 and I can zip up a medium but it's snug.

 

[Edward]

Smithy, that's a great looking jacket. The website photos that Thor kindly put up don't do it justice. The color is fantastic. Seriously, how do they make such a great jacket for only $150?

Combination of factors, I'd imagine. I'm sure labour costs is one way of keeping the price down - inevitably, it's gonig to cost more to have something like this run up in Scotland or the USA than, say, Pakistan. A lot of the cheaper, fashion oriented leather jackets on sale here in the UK are produced in Pakistan, and some in India. I'd guess one of those as the source given how many cheaper goathide jackets I've seen come from those places, and given that the WPG bits I've bought before now are labelled "Made in Pakistan". Quality is often surprisingly good, though you can see where they cut corners in terms of hides, smaller panels (you can find a lot of jackets that are vaguely Highwaymanesque, for instance, but they'll typically be a split back, without the 'waistband' panel, or the yoke), lower quality hides, cheaper linings... limiting sizings to S/M/L et cetera is, I'm sure, cheaper than grading to a full range of sizies - 40,42,44, and so on. I'd imagine the same issues come into play here. Knits might well be a blend, for instance, or not made entirely to the original pattern (do they have a seam? Not sure if that's been commented on here). Of course, it's always going to be cheaper to produce in numbers this sort of thing and sell OTR rather than producing something to order, with custom sizing, in a small boutique workshop. Not to denigrate this in any way - there's clearly a market for this jacket - but I don't think we're comparing like with this if we are to hold this up against the likes of Aero, ELC or, indeed, Goodwear.

The A2 is, of course, a very simple pattern, easy to mass produce. Naturally, this is by design... There's a fair argument to be made that in spirit at least something like this run up and sold off the rack is closer (in spirit, if not in eproducing the details of a specific contract) to what was thrown at the raw USAAF pilot in 42 than a custom-sized perfectly tailored repro with the very best of leather, hardware, and so on. These are definitely to be welcomed: It's really nice to see a starter A2 on the market which is that much more like "the real thing" than the civilianised versions with handwarmer pockets and thel ikes that have typically been what is available at that price point. I can see this having a lot of appeal to those who don't want to wear an A2 outside of a USAAF reenactment costume, or who need a starter jacket for that when they can't afford one of the established repros, or who want a jacket they can patch and paint without worrying they are limiting the wear-potential of an expensive leather jacket.... and so on. I'm tempted myself to look at one of these to patch up as a wartime successor to an AVG jacket, for the CBI theatre... Should my nephew in ten years' time be interested in A2s, I can see buying him somethingl ike this as an eighteenth birthday present - affordable for me, and not so expensive that when he grows out of it in two years' time it seems a terribly expensive folly.

It makes you ask why would anyone spend $500, $600, or more on an A-2 when this one (WPG) looks as good as any I've seen!

It will certainly be interesting to see them examined side by side. I'd say it's the same as why any of us buy expensive, niche leather jackets be they USAAF repro or be they civilian designs. There will always be the little add ons, the incremental improvements between one of these and an Aero/ELC/ w.h.y. and one of John's jackets.... For anyone with no ceiling on their budget, I doubt they'll run with one of these instead of a Goodwear, but for those who do have to watch the pennies, it's all about the law of diminishing returns. As with any market, each incremental improvement will raise the price markedly... most people will have a point at which they are prepared to compromise the very most specifically accurate detailing against price. I don't imagine the established brands will be threatened by these jackets from WPG, however what they will do is put reasonably period-accurate looking jacket within the reach of many more folks than in the past, which is definitely a good thing.

 

[Smithy]

Combination of factors, I'd imagine. I'm sure labour costs is one way of keeping the price down - inevitably, it's gonig to cost more to have something like this run up in Scotland or the USA than, say, Pakistan. A lot of the cheaper, fashion oriented leather jackets on sale here in the UK are produced in Pakistan, and some in India. I'd guess one of those as the source given how many cheaper goathide jackets I've seen come from those places, and given that the WPG bits I've bought before now are labelled "Made in Pakistan". Quality is often surprisingly good, though you can see where they cut corners in terms of hides, smaller panels (you can find a lot of jackets that are vaguely Highwaymanesque, for instance, but they'll typically be a split back, without the 'waistband' panel, or the yoke), lower quality hides, cheaper linings... limiting sizings to S/M/L et cetera is, I'm sure, cheaper than grading to a full range of sizies - 40,42,44, and so on. I'd imagine the same issues come into play here. Knits might well be a blend, for instance, or not made entirely to the original pattern (do they have a seam? Not sure if that's been commented on here). Of course, it's always going to be cheaper to produce in numbers this sort of thing and sell OTR rather than producing something to order, with custom sizing, in a small boutique workshop. Not to denigrate this in any way - there's clearly a market for this jacket - but I don't think we're comparing like with this if we are to hold this up against the likes of Aero, ELC or, indeed, Goodwear.

The A2 is, of course, a very simple pattern, easy to mass produce. Naturally, this is by design... There's a fair argument to be made that in spirit at least something like this run up and sold off the rack is closer (in spirit, if not in eproducing the details of a specific contract) to what was thrown at the raw USAAF pilot in 42 than a custom-sized perfectly tailored repro with the very best of leather, hardware, and so on. These are definitely to be welcomed: It's really nice to see a starter A2 on the market which is that much more like "the real thing" than the civilianised versions with handwarmer pockets and thel ikes that have typically been what is available at that price point. I can see this having a lot of appeal to those who don't want to wear an A2 outside of a USAAF reenactment costume, or who need a starter jacket for that when they can't afford one of the established repros, or who want a jacket they can patch and paint without worrying they are limiting the wear-potential of an expensive leather jacket.... and so on. I'm tempted myself to look at one of these to patch up as a wartime successor to an AVG jacket, for the CBI theatre... Should my nephew in ten years' time be interested in A2s, I can see buying him somethingl ike this as an eighteenth birthday present - affordable for me, and not so expensive that when he grows out of it in two years' time it seems a terribly expensive folly.



It will certainly be interesting to see them examined side by side. I'd say it's the same as why any of us buy expensive, niche leather jackets be they USAAF repro or be they civilian designs. There will always be the little add ons, the incremental improvements between one of these and an Aero/ELC/ w.h.y. and one of John's jackets.... For anyone with no ceiling on their budget, I doubt they'll run with one of these instead of a Goodwear, but for those who do have to watch the pennies, it's all about the law of diminishing returns. As with any market, each incremental improvement will raise the price markedly... most people will have a point at which they are prepared to compromise the very most specifically accurate detailing against price. I don't imagine the established brands will be threatened by these jackets from WPG, however what they will do is put reasonably period-accurate looking jacket within the reach of many more folks than in the past, which is definitely a good thing.

I’ve had a few things from WPG over the years and they’ve all been very acceptable quality but the thing with their A-2 is that it is streets ahead in quality. I’m still stunned whenever I pick it up. I originally only bought this to see if I could live with an A-2 before thinking I’d splash out on a more expensive repro.

One of the immediately noticeable things is the goatskin – it really is excellent, as good as some samples I’ve had from some of the more well-known jacket makers. The lining on my jacket is also brilliant quality, it’s certainly not some shitty low quality cotton, quite the opposite actually. The hardware as well (throat latch, snaps, underarm grommets) are all superb as well. The fit is very “wartime” and definitely not like some modern blousey A-2s out there. I don’t know where Jerry has had these made (probably Pakistan judging by WPG’s previous offerings) but whoever made my jacket is a skilled leather worker. IMO this WPG item is a new benchmark for what the company offers and is capable of making.

I found out the knits are wool, albeit the cuff knits do have a seam. I’m personally not too bothered by this, they are very sturdy and anyway knits always need to be replaced at some point so I can source what I want when the time comes.

One of the things which I find amusingly ironic about A-2 repros is that the originals were a mass produced, relatively cheap jacket (funnily enough the WPG is pretty much the equivalent of what an A-2 cost in 1942) but now an industry has built up making A-2 with a fastidious attention to detail and at enormous cost. That’s not having a go at the likes of GW or ELC - these guys offer real time machine products, but there is a certain irony when you consider the nature of originals, how they were made and how much they cost back in the day.

If someone is after a stitch-for-stitch contract replica then they’ll obviously go with the big boys but for those who want an A-2 which is 90 - 95% there, the WPG in my eyes is very, very hard to beat. It would be easy to customise as I’ve mentioned, and you can wear it in much the same spirit as the originals were – hard and without some of the worry that one can have with an expensive repro. That Japanese chap with the ELC who came up to me the other day said he was going to get one for that very reason. His compliments and surprise at the price (he nearly fell over when I told him) was the nicest that I could get.

 

[Brettafett]

Kinda looks like a 1756...
It certainly is a nice looking jacket Smithy, esp for the price. I think there may be a few here who are quickly loosing interest in 95%+ accurate jacket that cost $1000-$1500...
The likes of WPG, Steve McCoglan and Aerial Star may soon start to see business pick up if they can produce jackets like this.
I wonder if they do custom orders? Tweaking lengths...

 

[Smithy]

I wonder if they do custom orders? Tweaking lengths...

I severely doubt it Brett. Offering only OTR will be just one of the ways they keep the price down.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

With all this talk of "bargain" prices...just ordered a goatskin A-2 2000 from US Wings for $195, and free shipping if you spend an extra 5 bucks. I like the incorrect hand warmer pockets, and the satin type lining. The fabric lining on my Cockpit USA A-2 makes it a small challenge putting the coat on and taking it off.

Seriously thought about the WPG A-2, but the sizing looks small, no hand warmers, and the website seemed to be down when I looked there.

 

[Big J]

Some good comments above; the WPG jacket is likely true in spirit to that of wartime jackets (knock them together, as cheaply as possible, as quickly as possible). I guess these days you have to pay top dollar if you want all the period features; horse hide, veg tanned, accurate zipper and knits, etc. Of course, back in the day, those features were cheap, but modern manufacturing techniques having moved on to cheaper methods have made those period features expensive to reproduce, I guess.
Still, hat's off to WPG for making a really nice looking A-2 at a price that won't bust the bank. It's a great achievement.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Well, I spend that kind of money because I have the proportions of a gorilla, instead of the proportions of a 1940's teenager who grew up malnourished by the Great Depression. I'm simply not thin and boney enough for a super trim fit jacket.

My Dad was one of those kids. They weren't all malnourished, that's kind of a modern spin. Sure they had little in those days but many did eat regular meals and they ended up a mix of strong trim and well build guys. The real key to their build was they were very young. Many an A2 wearer today is 27 to 72 years. Years and decades older than the original wearers. The jackets are trim but can be worn by a wide range of builds, just not fat.

 

[Sloan1874]

Seb's right. People should look up what an "athletic build" actually is, rather than think by watching a lot of sport they qualify as having one.

 

[Mickey Bowtie]

..does not? Darn!

 

[Edward]

My Dad was one of those kids. They weren't all malnourished, that's kind of a modern spin. Sure they had little in those days but many did eat regular meals and they ended up a mix of strong trim and well build guys. The real key to their build was they were very young. Many an A2 wearer today is 27 to 72 years. Years and decades older than the original wearers. The jackets are trim but can be worn by a wide range of builds, just not fat.

It never ceases to amuse me when ou see farbe reenactors boasting about the accuracy of their kit or criticising others for the lack of same in theirs.... and you look and see the show-offs / complainers are men of a very large build, in their fifties, dressed as 22 year old fighter pilots. I'm fat and middle-aged myself so I'm not trying to point the finger here, but there are people who completely lose perspective.

 

[Edward]

FWIW.... it looks like Soldier of Fortune in the UK has these in now - selling at GBP125. I'll be intrigued enough to have a look at them on their stand at Goodwood in September. The B10s they had for that sort of money are really surprisingly nice as jackets; it'll be interesting to see how these measure up. http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/a2-leather-pilots-jacket-product,13888 I think they might be stretching the definition of "exact replica" a teeny bit, but from their photos alone it's clearly a marked improvement over the other one they've been selling for a while (both at the same price; the odler model is a less trim, more modern fit with concealed handwarmer pockets - I wonder whether it's based on the current issue model?).

 

[aswatland]

Tim, there is not much I can add to what everyone else has said about your high quality great value A2. It looks excellent for the price. Detailed pictures would be appreciated so that the jacket can be thoroughly evaluated. The pockets look fine as does the collar. I'm not sure why the wristlets are quite so long as they make the sleeves ride up a bit. Does it have the two underarm vent holes? Are the snaps the ring or ball variety?

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Tim, there is not much I can add to what everyone else has said about your high quality great value A2. It looks excellent for the price.

Excellent for the price? In my book, it looks excellent period!

 

[aswatland]

No, it is not "excellent period" if compared with GW repros which are really stitch for stitch accurate reproductions. This jacket does not claim to be in the same league and Tim is aware of this. However it is a very good value A2 and better than many more expensive A2s

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Yes, way better than many more expensive examples...in fact, way better than most. But I can only go by the photos here.
Everyone knows my feelings on G&B. Two good friends of mine bought A-2's and B-3's on my recommendation. Now all three of us feel that G&B is the brand to beat.

Lets throw price out the window, take this jacket, and some others that cost 3, 4, even 5 times as much.
Then lets do a double blind test. I would love to see the faces on the people when they found out the winners...and the losers.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Something else to consider. As the WWII jackets were mass produced, it would be inevitable that some minor variations might exist from example to example. I would not get wrapped around the axle over stitch count, thread count, etc. If it fits, looks good, and is reasonably well made...plus is affordable for the average consumer, then you have a winner. In my book, at least. Your mileage may vary.

 

[zhz]

Sounds an interesting test. Remember to find people with no knowledge of A2 at all. I think the experienced people (like Andrew) may distinguish this easily.

Yes, way better than many more expensive examples...in fact, way better than most. But I can only go by the photos here.
Everyone knows my feelings on G&B. Two good friends of mine bought A-2's and B-3's on my recommendation. Now all three of us feel that G&B is the brand to beat.

Lets through price out the window, take this jacket, and some others that cost 3, 4, even 5 times as much.
Then lets do a double blind test. I would love to see the faces on the people when they found out the winners...and the losers.