what is it so hard to find vintage in 7 1/2 ?

[moontheloon]

.....in felt fedora that is

where not many made?

where peoples heads smaller back then ?.... hahahaha

seriously.... I don't understand why almost everything I find is 7 1/4 and under

does anyone have a source for me to check out where they may have some ?

 

[jamespowers]

There are several theories involved there. It could have been that a lot of people were that size and thus bought and wore out the hats long before our time---so none survive. Smaller hats abound as not many people were wearing them out.

The other side of that is yes, there were few larger headed people back then so large sized hats were few and far between. Those people wore the hats and not many survive pristine because of it.


I think it is a combination of both. There were smaller people back then if you go by the statistics. However there are always going to be larger people around---just not a HUGE majority as this is not a Viking society. The numbers have gone up some in the last forty years with better diets and nutrition though.


As to where to find lots of larger hats? I have no idea but if you find a place let me know as I am in the same boat as you.

 

[javadave61]

I feel your 7 1/2 pain. I've resigned myself to vintage 7 3/8 and a good hat stretcher.

It's not just that larger hat sizes are hard to find. It's also that you can find so many 6 3/4 and 6 7/8 hats in the vintage market. These hats are too small for my 9 year old daughter, so I struggle to imagine a time when grown men could wear such small hats. We're taller and bigger now. My doctor told me that if I actually got down to a BMI in the "normal" range, my friends would worry that I'm terribly sick or significantly malnourished. We've accommodated to being larger altogether.

Now, if we can only prove that larger head size means greater intelligence. I'm going with that theory.

 

[moontheloon]

thanks for the replies gentlemen

it is frustrating for me to see all these great vintage pieces that will never come close to fitting my head

I've had a few successfully stretched by Kevin over at Pork Pie... he does really great work on that end..... but stretching anything smaller than a 3/8 to 1/2 usually leaves this bulbous protrusion in the back that is unsightly .... and unfortunately even 3/8 are quite rare

there seems to be a wealth of 6 3/8 to 7 1/4 .... so if you are in this size range enjoy it and be thankful you lucky bastards

 

[Zombie_61]

...There were smaller people back then if you go by the statistics...The numbers have gone up some in the last forty years with better diets and nutrition though.

Not to mention all of the chemicals "they" are putting in the foods most of us eat these days.

...It's not just that larger hat sizes are hard to find. It's also that you can find so many 6 3/4 and 6 7/8 hats in the vintage market. These hats are too small for my 9 year old daughter, so I struggle to imagine a time when grown men could wear such small hats...

My wife and I have been to quite a few museums over the years in which they had at least one display of a civil war era uniform or civilian suit that had somehow survived over the decades, and every one of them looked like it would barely fit a modern-day skinny/slight 13-year-old boy. I have no idea if these were "normal" sizes for the day, but the fact that they were all on the smallish side leads me to the conclusion that humans, for the most part, have indeed increased in size over the years.

...My doctor told me that if I actually got down to a BMI in the "normal" range, my friends would worry that I'm terribly sick or significantly malnourished...

The BMI is laughable these days. I'd have to lose 20-25 lbs. to get into the high end of the range for my height, and if I did that I'd look like I'd just walked out of a concentration camp.

Getting back to the main topic, my hat size is 7-1/2 as well and I've given up on trying to find a decent vintage hat on evilBay or wherever--they're either absurdly out of my spending range, or they look like they're so ill-maintained that a slight breeze would turn them to dust.

 

[mayserwegener]

Men also tended to wear their hats higher up. This is especially the case with stiff felts (Derbies here). I am between a 7 1/4 and 7 3/8 and could probably get away with wearing 7 1/8 soft felt back in the day (do on occasion today). I believe there is a list of famous men's hat sizes from 1930s on here and they are about the same as what you would see today. I could see maybe a half size difference over the past 90 years.

 

[tommyK]

Moon, one of the biggest problems you (and I) have is you are also competing with at least five other members here for those few 7 1/2's that come along and two 7 3/8's that like to buy up a size and at least one 7 5/8 who buys down a size in thin ribbon hats and that's just the folks I know of.
You can see how many people are looking at a given subject, often 100 people or more at a time but I don't see 100+ people contributing pics of their hats and info they find. More like 20 people or so. So a lot of people are using this sight for info in their own collecting efforts, getting them and contributing nothing here.

 

[tommyK]

My wife and I have been to quite a few museums over the years in which they had at least one display of a civil war era uniform or civilian suit that had somehow survived over the decades, and every one of them looked like it would barely fit a modern-day skinny/slight 13-year-old boy

My Grandmother had her Grandfather's civil war uniform. I would sneak the jacket on as a kid, last time it fit me I was about 13! You're right on the money, Zombie!

 

[gtdean48]

You have very savy & experienced vintage hat hunters watching that size for true

 

[theoldnorthwest]

There are 7 1/2 vintage hats that pop up on eBay from time to time, I wear that size and have collected 12 over the past few years. You really have to look at least a couple of times a week if you want to catch them when they come up and you must be willing to pay top dollar. For most of the more desirable hats you will be paying in excess of $200 per hat. I paid $220 for a Dobbs 20, $185 for a Stetson Playboy, and $315 for a Stetson Stratoliner to name just a few. If you can't pay those prices it will be hard to get those kind of hats in that size. I have found a couple of great hats including a Stetson 5X Open Road style in 7 1/2 at an estate sale but that is really rare and I go to estate sales almost every week. Ebay is definitely your best bet, you can try Etsy but the selection is not as good as on eBay, the thing with eBay though is you must know how to bid and be willing to bid high otherwise you will certainly be outbid by people like me. Just know those hats are out there but you must be diligent in your search and I wish you good luck.

 

[GHT]

seriously.... I don't understand why almost everything I find is 7 1/4 and under
does anyone have a source for me to check out where they may have some ?

Seven & a half eh, at least you are in the mix if something should turn up, when you are seven and three quarters, as I am, you just don't bother. A remark on the "customer experience" of a popular hat maker, here in the UK, said it all:

Great Hat! - I cannot begin to express my profound appreciation for this hat! I have a huge head and usually find buying hats that fit properly extremely difficult. Not only does this hat fit, it also looks extremely stylish and is amazing quality, especially for its price.
Danny Smith

I haven't named the hat retailer in case you think I might be deliberately banging their drum, but if you want to know, just ask. By way of consolation, there is apparently, some correlation with larger heads having bigger brains. http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/big-heads/

 

[mayserwegener]

What is interesting is this study (skulls from people born between 1825 - 1985) found the head became narrower side to side by longer top to bottom. They didn't measure circumference but a 10mm (same as the height change) change would be one hat size .

"Over the last 150 years or so, it appears that skulls got narrower from side to side by about 5 to 7 millimeters, and higher from top to bottom by an average of nearly 10 millimeters, Jantz said. And the overall size of the head has, on average, increased by an amount equivalent to the size of a tennis ball, he said."

"The researchers did not directly measure the circumference of the head, so it's hard to say whether this trend has had any effect on hat size."

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/05/our-heads-may-be-getting-bigger-literally/

My father was born in 1928 and his head circumference slightly larger than mine (I am between 7 1/4 and 7 3/8). My brother born (1957) 4 years earlier than me is a 7 5/8. We are all about the same height. My brother has a larger build (than my father/me).

Hat Sizes of Famous Men

http://www.villagehatshop.com/content/186/hat-sizes-of-famous-men.html

 

[Michaelshane]

Same with feet.My father and uncles all had size 7 and 71/2 shoe size.Mine are 9 1/2.

 

[hatsRme]

All of this is a direct result of WONDER BREAD, which "builds strong bodies 12 ways."

All seriousness aside, the plethora of "enriched" and "fortified" foods in the US and around the world are the reason we need larger hats. That's my guess.

 

[Frunobulax]

My Grandmother had her Grandfather's civil war uniform. I would sneak the jacket on as a kid, last time it fit me I was about 13! You're right on the money, Zombie!

Some folks fighting in that war were thirteen, too.

 

[mayserwegener]

Have to start digging up graves.

Based on what info is available I don't see more than a size difference over the past 100 years.

Also how hats were worn / sized is another factor (look at old photos from the 1930s and earlier, it common to see 3 or 4 finger widths above the ear).

How many people here wear their hats this high? I could wear a size 7 (normally between a 7 1/4 and 7 3/8) if worn this high up.

I can say the opposite. My father who was born in 1928 is the same height and build and has slightly larger feet and hat size. My GF on my mother's side had a giant head circumference (born in Italy) in late 1800s. Had a short and stocky build.

 

[moontheloon]

I wear my hats pretty low in a more "modern" style I guess .... I would like to start experimenting with the more classy old style that some of you cats wear.... I really think it looks great .... I just have not found it within my comfort zone yet
.... sort of like the way I cannot leave the house wearing bright colors.... just can't do it ... been that way forever


I definitely consider myself pretty much an ebay master ....hahaha... been on the damn thing for 18 or so years.... I consider myself one of those savvy searchers spoken of earlier in this thread ..... I've gotten a few choice pieces off it.... but I'm also not stupid ... I'm not dropping $550 on something that is just not worth that to me.

most of my finds come from estate sales and garage sales when people have no idea what grandpa had... and I get something I may have payed $250 for , $6

I also have a couple estate sale scouts who hit up the news paper and go to probably 7 or 8 sales a week and contact me with pictures of anything they find

and still.... 7 1/2 is pretty slim pickins

 

[hatsRme]

We're just born too late, Moon. Somewhere on TFL recently this question came up in the context of a members' hat size poll. Our average in the poll was 7-3/8, based on that sample. Then someone also posted (maybe from hat industry records?) the average size around 1900. That number was 7-1/8, if my porous memory is correct. And I don't recall if the older numbers were worldwide, or just the USA. Certainly points to the possibility that the WonderBread worked!

 

[Brother cavefish]

I have seen no problems

 

[tommyK]

I wear my hats pretty low in a more "modern" style I guess .... I would like to start experimenting with the more classy old style that some of you cats wear.... I really think it looks great .... I just have not found it within my comfort zone yet
.... sort of like the way I cannot leave the house wearing bright colors.... just can't do it ... been that way forever


I definitely consider myself pretty much an ebay master ....hahaha... been on the damn thing for 18 or so years.... I consider myself one of those savvy searchers spoken of earlier in this thread ..... I've gotten a few choice pieces off it.... but I'm also not stupid ... I'm not dropping $550 on something that is just not worth that to me.

most of my finds come from estate sales and garage sales when people have no idea what grandpa had... and I get something I may have payed $250 for , $6

I also have a couple estate sale scouts who hit up the news paper and go to probably 7 or 8 sales a week and contact me with pictures of anything they find

and still.... 7 1/2 is pretty slim pickins

I think if you're not willing to shell out $200-500 for the more sought after size 7 1/2 vintage hats you'd best get used to disappointment. You can certainly get lucky once in a while, it's happened to me a few times but it's getting more rare all the time. There is just a lot of competition for these right now.
If you develop a taste for the stingy brim hats of the late 50's and 60's there are many more bargains to be found. If you're looking for 40's Stratoliners, Whippets and Playboys you'll probably have to pay the piper or buy hats in very distressed shape and get skilled at rehabing them.