What Is A "Dinner Jacket?"

["Doc" Devereux]

Would this be a good time to mention that it's not just the Scots in that position, or are we sailing too close to politics??

 

[scotrace]

Dinner Jackets!

 

[geo]

Going back to the red jacket, I think that the term "house jacket" which they use in Esquire means the same thing as "smoking jacket". Both terms refer to a jacket worn at home, replacing either a dinner jacket coat or a city suit coat. The original smoking jacket looks Edwardian, and the one presented in Esquire is a more modern version (modern for the 30's). The name "house jacket" is just a more modern name, just as Esquire liked to give inventive names to new colors, for example.

 

[Sardou]

For the most formal events, one wears white tie--an ensemble that is fixed and in which about the only option you have is whether to wear a red or white carnation in your lapel.

Maybe not even that. Looking back over the plates that have appeared in this thread, no one is wearing tails with a flower of any kind. Aren't boutonnieres mostly a daytime thing anyway?

But I agree with the main point. Tails really are a "uniform". If you want to get creative with textures, patterns, small splashes of color, etc., do it with your Tux/Dinner Jacket/Smoking (unless you actually have some medals and/or are entitled to wear a diplomatic sash, and then only if the invitation so states).

Sardou

 

[geo]

You'd be surprized how much place there is for subtle creativity and variety for tails. See the tails thread at the london lounge.http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5526

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Going back to the red jacket, I think that the term "house jacket" which they use in Esquire means the same thing as "smoking jacket".

I'd say that a "smoking jacket" is (or was) a specific type of house jacket that you'd wear (in your own home) in order to have a smoke (probably a cigar or two), but not wear during dinner.


A "house jacket" is a specific type of dinner jacket worn only in your own home; however, you would be able to wear it during cocktails and dinner, as well as afterward. It isn't for smoking only.


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[Baron Kurtz]

Though Flusser is far from being the perfect source (trots out an awful lot of misguided "rules" of style), he does deal with this quite well:

"As one ascends the social ladder, with its increasing demands for dress up, the odd or separate dinner jacket surfaces. Paired with the conventional formal trouser, this nonmatching jacket surrogate is often a variation on the velvet-smoking-jacket theme and traditionally reserved for less formal affairs. So long as its design conforms to one of the four classic models mentioned earlier [SB peak, DBpeak, SB shawl, DB shawl], its fabric can flirt with adventure. Escorting the Duchess of Kent from his London house to her awaiting chariot, our man Fairbanks [DF, Jr.] sports a satin-faced velvet smoking jacket and monogrammed slippers in toe.

Affecting an offbeat aplomb that only the genuine English toff can muster, artist and photographer Cecil Beaton squires Lee Radziwill to the English premiere of Coco. Between Beaton's own formal garniture and their matching velvet frocks, the couple radiates glamour"

bk

 

[scotrace]

I think a chap would get pretty out of breath loping off to the bedroom to change for every activity.

smoking jacket
dinner jacket
housing jacket
drinkin' jacket (hope the stains from Roger's party came out)
dancing jacket
woo pitching jacket


"Sorry everyone, no dessert tonight. I've run a little short after buying all these blasted jacket!"

 

[manton]

All of the "black tie" garments discussed in this thread derive from the original smoking jacket, which in its purest form is DB shawl, 4x1, made from velvet with quilted satin lapel facings, sleeve cuffs and braided frog closures. Definitely not something to be worn out. It began purely as a garment to smoke in, but quickly became acceptable dinner wear in your own home. Dropping the frog closure and the quilted facings makes it look more like a traditional DJ, and so more acceptable for men who don't like the sort of "precious" look of the true smoking jacket.

I think it is probably correct to say that Esquire made up the term "house jacket." Certainly, if you go to Savile Row today and ask for that, they will likely have no idea what you are talking about. Or they might think of an unconstructed day wear tweed, to be worn like a cardigan to fight against drafty windows.

If you ask for a smoking jacket, they will take one thing for granted: that it will be velvet. As to the rest, you will have to explain the details you want.

 

[geo]

The original purpose of the smoking jacket in Victorian times was for smoking, but that has changed to become a jacket worn at home, alone or when receiving guests. Flusser shows Cecil Beaton wearing a smoking jacket with slippers outside, but Beaton was an original; there's a picture of him, in the same book, wearing a tan poplin suit with a t-shirt and opera pumps.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I think a chap would get pretty out of breath loping off to the bedroom to change for every activity.

smoking jacket
dinner jacket
housing jacket
drinkin' jacket (hope the stains from Roger's party came out)
dancing jacket
woo pitching jacket!

Believe it or not, they -- the leisure class and its aspirants -- actually did change clothes for every activity. The movie The Shooting Party gives an accurate picture of it.


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[Vermifuge]

I found the following on a google new group. i though i would add it to this thread. the folloing words are not my own. but i found them interesting!

"I think I know how the term got there: by way of Paris, specifically fashion houses. I believe that at some point in the past, and this could be researched and proven or disproven but I've got a gaudy Halloween gown to finish for my daughter and work to go to, some fashion designers came out with a line of dinner jackets which they claimed to be evocative of the smoking jacket in some way. Now I'm going to guess, based on hazily half-remembered pictures of nineteenth-century gentlemen, that the design detail which was considered to be so evocative was the lapel. But don't decide that these are really truly facts in the sartorial history of European men. "

 

[FreddieVonRost]

Hey, Radio Head

Why is Baron Kurtz quoted in this thread when he doesn't seem to have posted to this thread?

Are you sure there were British citizens in America in the good ol' days when King George V ruled the Colonies. Or, were they simply His subjects with no voting rights?

At the risk of pedantry I think you will find that George III was actually on the throne during the American War of Independence. 1775 to 1783.

George V was born in 1865, ascended to the throne in 1910 and died in 1936.

The reason the USA is not a part of the Commonwealth is that the majority of the remaining British colonies sought independence post WW II at which point America had already been an independant state for at least 175 years.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

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Speaking of SMOKING JACKETS ...


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Victorian-Cam...80QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4036QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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[John in Covina]

Asia / Chinese influence

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Speaking of SMOKING JACKETS ...


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Victorian-Cam...80QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4036QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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Very cool Smoking jacket definate asian / Chinese influence with this one. Awesome!

 

[Tomasso]

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Speaking of SMOKING JACKETS ...


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[Happy Stroller]

At the risk of pedantry I think you will find that George III was actually on the throne during the American War of Independence. 1775 to 1783.

George V was born in 1865, ascended to the throne in 1910 and died in 1936.

The reason the USA is not a part of the Commonwealth is that the majority of the remaining British colonies sought independence post WW II at which point America had already been an independant state for at least 175 years.

==================== End of quote ======================

My belated apologies to Radio Head for my mistakes. 175 years ago. About time for a reconciliation I would think by submitting an application for membership.

1936 - the Year of the Three Kings. So sad the Golden Age of Gentlemanly Apparel came to en end that year, even for Shanghai.

 

[Happy Stroller]

This thread seems to have changed to a thread on smoking jackets. Even dressing gowns, especially those made from Chinese silk, are being described as smoking apparel in a well-known online auction site.

 

[FreddieVonRost]

This thread seems to have changed to a thread on smoking jackets. Even dressing gowns, especially those made from Chinese silk, are being described as smoking apparel in a well-known online auction site.

Hello HP,

Typical seller tactics really. There is a great demand - usually phrased as BOHO fashion - for these jackets/coats/gowns. A lot of idiots will buy these as they think it makes an amusing and witty addition to their wardrobe. Any desperate measure to tart up their torn jeans or their ridiculous chav items. No knowledge or real affection for the item of course. This means that the real aficionados pay more and increasingly - well in the UK anyway - find it harder to purchase bargains.

It really is the acme of ghastliness. Jeans hanging off pubic bones, or, for the Gentleman of the house, drooping off one's arse with a mixture of sunglasses, hip hop/gangster gear, the latest fashionable plimsolls and the ubiquitous base ball cap to finish off this stylish ensemble.

As for the Lady of the house? Yes, you have guessed it. Just add a bit of BOHO.

The barbarians have stopped baying at the gates of civilization and are busily breaking down the walls, prior to the total annihilation of good taste and civilised behaviour.

FVR

 

[John in Covina]

What's BOHO and what's a plimsoll?