What Is A "Dinner Jacket?"

[Baron Kurtz]

All three were velvet? Never seen that!

Perhaps a special edition on the aesthetic movement?

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

In certain instances, AA and Esquire pushed things that never went anywhere.

Very true. I've never seen a '30s velvet tuxedo in person and I doubt I ever will. Who would have worn such a thing, except maybe Fats Waller? (See his black rayon satin suit, below.)

In vintage clothing stores, I have seen grey and burgundy dinner jackets from '30s and '40s, all of them made of lightweight Palm Beach Cloth. I'll bet they were more popular with big bands than with the average man.


Anyway, here's Fats in his satin suit. From 1938:

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[jamespowers]

Perhaps a special edition on the aesthetic movement?

bk

Like in the 70s?

Regards,

J

 

[geo]

The term "dinner jacket" refers to the whole suit, coat and trousers, whereas the term "smoking jacket" refers to the coat only. The term "white dinner jacket" refers to the generally white coat only.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Like in the 70s?

Regards,

J

The 1870s, yes:

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The term "dinner jacket" refers to the whole suit, coat and trousers, ...

Geo, I'm confused. The sentence above doesn't make sense to me.

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[manton]

If you go to Savile Row and place an order, you will find that the preferred term is "dinner jacket and trousers." They never say "dinner suit." You do indeed have to specify that you want both, if you want them to make both. In discussing dress codes and invitations, "dinner jacket" suffices to reference the entire rig because hostesses expect that gentlemen will not show up without their trousers. Which, I think, is a reasonable expectation for them to hold.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

If you go to Savile Row and place an order, you will find that the preferred term is "dinner jacket and trousers." ... You do indeed have to specify that you want both, if you want them to make both.

Thanks! That makes sense. And it follows that if you place an order and simply ask for a "dinner jacket", then the tailor will only make the jacket. And if you ask for a dinner jacket of crimson velvet, will not the tailor make something like this?

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[scotrace]

This has been great info.

Of course, I retract my error in saying that a dinner jacket was a subset of the tuxedo. That was entirely wrong.

 

[jamespowers]

The 1870s, yes:

bk

Ah yes, every 100 years something like that seems to crop up. In the 1970s it was much more brutal to the eye though.

Regards,

J

 

[manton]

If you order a black DJ, they will expect that you want trousers as well, but they don't take it for granted; they will ask. They make a fair amount of separates: light color dinner jackets for cruises and the tropics, smoking jackets, etc., things that don't take matching trousers. For those, there is no question that the trousers are not included. If you want trousers as well, the price will be slightly higher than a dinner jacket with matching trousers, in part because they have to order cloth from two lots, and each length has to be slightly longer. A decent tailor can make a suit for the average guy out of 3 1/2 yards of 60" goods. But for a coat alone, he will want 2 1/4 or even 2 1/2 and for trousers 2. And since they will not be the same cloth, he can't spread things like pocket flaps and backings around the margins of each piece, thus more cloth ends up wasted.

If you ordered that in red velvet they would probably insist on calling it a smoking jacket, but they would make it. They would recommend black semi-formal evening trousers.

 

[geo]

And it follows that if you place an order and simply ask for a "dinner jacket", then the tailor will only make the jacket.

Not right away, he will first say "with trousers to match, of course?" and you will say "of course!", and the tailor will proceed to make the dinner jacket, which includes the coat + trousers.

The red jacket is shown on the LL, with the commentary taken from Esquire, and it's called "1) Red velvet DB house jacket with piped pockets and discreet, self faced lapels"

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Thanks to Manton's link to the "London Lounge" thread, I found the original 1937 Esquire text that accompanied the photo of the crimson velvet jacket.


It turns out that we're both off the mark. It is neither a "smoking jacket" nor a "dinner jacket". The fact is that it's a peculiar hybrid of the two: a so-called "house jacket".


The full text: "Red velvet double-breasted house jacket with piped pockets and discreet, self faced lapels."



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[Briscoeteque]

I'm totally sold on the 'house jacket' in form, it's really beautiful, but how would it work? I assume by the name its not meant to be worn outside of the home. The rules for evening wear are far more complicated than I thought, I never knew there were this many different catagories! I suppose while a black dinner jacket and tails were absolute staples, tropical summer jackets, smoking jackets, and house jackets were options.

I may have something that sort of fufills this 'house jacket role', it's a red and black raw silk jacket from the 60's. It's a little small on me, rather short, and incredibly delicate. I love finding things in these more unusual colors. I can't wait till I find someone with a camera to take pictures of my things.

 

[Orgetorix]

I'm totally sold on the 'house jacket' in form, it's really beautiful, but how would it work? I assume by the name its not meant to be worn outside of the home. The rules for evening wear are far more complicated than I thought, I never knew there were this many different catagories! I suppose while a black dinner jacket and tails were absolute staples, tropical summer jackets, smoking jackets, and house jackets were options.

Rather than there being a vast set of different rules for different garments and situations, I think it's more helpful to think of formal- and semi-formal wear as a scale where rigidity is tied to formality. For the most formal events, one wears white tie--an ensemble that is fixed and in which about the only option you have is whether to wear a red or white carnation in your lapel. For public semi-formal events, you have a little more leeway--i.e., SB or DB jacket, waistcoat or cummerbund, black or white jacket, turndown or wing collared shirt. For events in the home or club, which are still less formal (yet still require evening dress), one has even more freedom with regard to materials, patterns, colors, and so on; thus smoking jackets and house jackets are within the realm of good taste. Regardless of where on the scale you find yourself, respect for tradition and a sense of classic style will stand you in good stead.

 

[jamespowers]

1929 M Born and Company catalog.

 

[Tomasso]

And in France, it is known as le smoking.

Doesn't "Le Smoking" reference Yves Saint Laurent's female version of the DJ?

 

[manton]

For the most formal events, one wears white tie--an ensemble that is fixed and in which about the only option you have is whether to wear a red or white carnation in your lapel.

You can also wear a DB or an SB vest, and opera pumps or plain toe patent oxfords. Other than that ...

 

[jamespowers]

1929 M Born and Company catalog.

A 1938 dated example:

Regards,

J

 

[RadioHead]

===================== End of quote ======================

Are you sure there were British citizens in America in the good ol' days when King George V ruled the Colonies. Or, were they simply His subjects with no voting rights?

Semantics. They were (supposedly) Englishmen living in America. Besides, it was George III.

And how is it the U.S. of A. was not and has never been a member of the British Commonwealth?

I think the rather bloody revolution- which occurred even before the "British Empire" and therefore long before the inception of the "Commonwealth" -might have something to do with it...

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"RadioHead"

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