What Is A "Dinner Jacket?"

[scotrace]

As is often the case, the term "dinner jacket" is applied and mis-applied to many garments from smoking jackets to plain navy blazers.
A dinner jacket/suit is a subset of the formal tuxedo, but what are the features that define a dinner jacket? When is a dinner jacket appropriate?
Does anyone have good photos to share?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I thought the "dinner jacket"/suit was simply a black tie tuxedo (as opposed to tails). Called thus because you wore it for dinner. The host was allowed to wear a smoking jacket. I may be misinformed.

I'd like to know if there was an elevenses jacket ...

bk

 

[Mojave Jack]

Baron, I think you're right. I think it's just called a dinner jacket in the UK and Europe, and a tuxedo in the States and Canada.

For elevenses, wouldn't the morning coat be approriate?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I was kidding, of course, but i think you're right. I've never had elevenses and hope to God i never will.

bk

 

[Mojave Jack]

Really? Why not? Is elevenses pretentious? Honestly, the first time I ever heard of elevenses was reading the Paddington stories as a kid. Cocoa and buns sound kind of nice around eleven!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

All too terribly english for me, i'm afraid. As a citizen of a country occupied and downtrodden by the english, i tend to reject such things.

bk

 

[scotrace]

Honestly, the first time I ever heard of elevenses was reading the Paddington stories as a kid.

This is the very first time I've ever heard of elevenses. Is this like Bilbo's eleventy-hundredth birthday?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

eleven o'clock tea time. Often with cucumber sandwiches, depending upon how far down the stereotypical pathway one wishes to travel. All very quaint, Miss Marple-ish, small village in middle England type stuff. All the things the tourists crave and the BNP idolises.

bk

 

[Zemke Fan]

To tell the truth, Mortimer...

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There are SO many in flip-flops and jeans these days that... well... the sport has sort of gone out of it for me...

 

[manton]

In traditional Savile Row parlance:

A dinner jacket is "semi-formal" evening wear, more formal than a suit, a notch below tails. In ye olden times, in high society, men were expected to wear this to dinner every night. The only exceptions were when they were expected to wear tails! Hence the phrase "dinner jacket." Nowadays, it is made basically the same way, but its purpose has changed. It is no longer "every day" wear but is today the typical formal evening attire; tails are rarer and rarer. These days, an invitation that reads "black tie" calls for the dinner jacket; "white tie" calls for tails.

And, yes, "tuxedo" is just an Americanism for "dinner jacket and trousers." Savile Row hates the term and you can see their noses twitch when they hear it.

The DJ is typically a black coat, though midnight blue is a favorite of dandies. Off white is a nice alternative for summer or tropical climates; purists sniff at it in Europe or the Northeast. On the black and blue versions, the lapels should be faced with satin or grosgrain (preferred by the cognoscenti); on white, self facings are preferred. DJs can be DB or SB, but they traditionally take peak or shawl lapels; no notch. I know that FL members have found old American plates that show notched lapel DJs, but this must have been an American "error" of interpretation. Even today, a Savile Row tailor would likely refuse to make such a request. And for most of its history, Brooks didn't make them either. (Things are different today.)

There is some debate about whether the buttons and pocket jettings should be faced with the same silk as the lapels. I prefer that; some don't like it. In any event, no pocket flaps. Another fraught question is vents. I think this can go either way: none or side. I would never do center on a DJ.

The trousers match the coat, if the latter is black or blue; white coats take black or blue trousers. They should not have cuffs, and should have a stripe made of the lapel facing material running down the outseam.

As to the picture posted, the one on the left is a classic SB shawl DJ. The one on the right is a velvet "smoking" jacket, the ancestor of the DJ, and traditionally considered an alternative for wear in one's own home or club (but not out).

 

[John in Covina]

Around here we dress for dinner!

A tux with an open notch comes from the lounge suit I think and can't be regarded as truly formal. It always reminds me of an entertainer's version of a tux, more like a "lounge" act!

 

[geo]

Notch lapel dinner jackets were around in the 30's. The red jacket on the right is a smoking jacket.

fftopic: What else is in a cucumber sandwitch, besides cucumbers and bread?

 

[scotrace]

A smoking jacket has frog closures and satin lapels and cuffs. Or perhaps stitched cuffs.

I don't think the red jacket in the illustration is a smoking jacket.

 

[geo]

Smoking jackets come in many styles. See here:http://www.pakeman.co.uk/products.asp?cat=26 for example for a velvet DB with frog closures and a velvet SB with one-button closure. Both have velvet lapels. Also, see this:http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5433 There is the picture above, and a very good discussion on smoking jackets.

 

[jamespowers]

There are SO many in flip-flops and jeans these days that... well... the sport has sort of gone out of it for me...

Yes indeed. Far too many to shoot at. It would not be sporting. Sort of like shooting fish in a barrel. I have far too many flip flops on my wall in the study anyway.

Regards,

J

 

[jamespowers]

I know that FL members have found old American plates that show notched lapel DJs, but this must have been an American "error" of interpretation. Even today, a Savile Row tailor would likely refuse to make such a request. And for most of its history, Brooks didn't make them either. (Things are different today.)

Yep, here you go 1927:

Another from 1916 without the notched lapel option:

Regards,

J

 

[manton]

A smoking jacket has frog closures and satin lapels and cuffs. Or perhaps stitched cuffs.

I don't think the red jacket in the illustration is a smoking jacket.

True, a classic in every respect smoking jacket has frog closures, sleeve cuffs, and quilted lapel facings. But the key distinction is the cloth. Velvet in any color makes it a smoking jacket. The red jacket would have been considered a smoking jacket in the 30s. Somewhere I have the original text for that illustration, and I believe it identifies that garment as a smoking jacket. I will double check when I get the chance.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Really? Why not? Is elevenses pretentious? Honestly, the first time I ever heard of elevenses was reading the Paddington stories as a kid. Cocoa and buns sound kind of nice around eleven!

Believe it or not, nearly all Chileans, regardless of social class, engage in a daily ritual called "onces" (the Spanish word for "elevenses"). Brought to Chile in the 19th century by British shippers, bankers and mining engineers, it is really a sort of "high tea" ... and it's not held at 11 o'clock, but around 5 pm.


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[BellyTank]

Smoking...

Baron, I think you're right. I think it's just called a dinner jacket in the UK and Europe, and a tuxedo in the States and Canada.

In Europe(Western/Northern), the getup which is known by Americans, as a Tuxedo(and Dinner attire) is know as "Smoking". Just "Smoking".
In German even.

Confused..?

B
T

 

[BellyTank]

Onces...

Believe it or not, nearly all Chileans, regardless of social class, engage in a daily ritual called "onces" (the Spanish word for "elevenses"). Brought to Chile in the 19th century by British shippers, bankers and mining engineers, it is really a sort of "high tea" ... and it's not held at 11 o'clock, but around 5 pm.


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"Onces", that's an anagram of "Scone".

But that would be more of an "Andean Cream Tea" offering.

B
T