What Happens to Old Towns?

[Foofoogal]

And, I don't know about you, but I shop online A LOT. For example, rather than traveling to the great camera store just 45 minutes away I instead shop at Amazon, Adorama, or Ritz...... Ease of buying anytime has impacted small local shops greatly... Even though I love that camera shop I often buy online.....go figure....

enjoyed your post and all the comments. Guilty as charged but I am trying more to shop local. We recently moved and I have found a hole in the wall restaurant that will put alot of the big chain restaurants in Houston area to shame.
They even call me honey. lol

 

[Paisley]

I'm going to be a bit contrary on this one. I am not so sure that what happened to small town retail, with the introduction of Walmart, is terribly different from what happened to all the little locally owned restaurants when chain restaurants showed up.

More often than not, the chain-restaurant food was better quality, consistently cooked, the restrooms were cleaner, and the wait staff were more service oriented because they were actually trained to serve, in a training regimen that had been developed to insure a quality dining experience. The surly waitress, the hung-over cook dropping cigarette ashes into the food, the food that looked and tasted differently each time you ordered it, and the general attitude that they were doing you a favor by serving you .... how we all long for the good old days.

This reminds me of one place in particular in Denver: a funky place that serves "natural, organic, locally grown" food that isn't as good as organic cookies or frozen dinners I've bought at the grocery store. One day I ordered a piece of apple pie and it was FULL of mold. Their prices aren't that low, either. It's in a slightly bad part of town where there aren't any chain stores of any kind. In my experience, independent restaurants within a few blocks of several chains have excellent food and service. These restaurants are in a better part of town, but they also have high-quality competition in the chains. As for the authenticity of the chains, a friend of mine, whose parents were born in Italy, goes to one of the chains and special orders a dish that's just like one his mother used to make.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

I would have to disagree. Some of these smaller businesses can't afford to hire people to keep open during all hours. Who would go to a tiny general store late at night for a pair of work jeans or some matches? They close at five and they have worked a good day. Wall Mart has everything at more hours, so they can force smaller businesses with better selection and quality/service etc. out. But I better not get into Wally-World bashing, sometimes it gets as bad as politics!lol

Not to put too fine a point on it for you and Shoreroad, but: nonsense.

Anyone on this forum who has started their own business or worked for themselves knows that you don't stay in business closing at 5 because you "worked a good day." Ask any Indian or Pakistani or Russian or Mexican or Columbian immigrant who owns their own franchise donut shop, minimart, sandwich shop, gas station, etc. You will see the owner there at 7 in the morning and, as often as not, still there at 9 that night, 7 days a week.

My postion is that many American small business owners got complacent. For a while they were the only game in town, and they forgot that they didn't own the marketplace. Or perhaps they got caught up in civic affairs, became "town leaders," or started going to local Chamber meetings instead of staying in their stores and listening to their customers, and lost their focus. The same maladies that afflict giant corporations also afflict small businesses, just on a smaller scale.

Then someone came along with hours that suited working folks, with prices that were acceptable (even if they are actually often higher!!) and workers who actually wanted to wait on you. The big box stores are credited with putting independents out of business, but I put it to you that the independents had long since abandoned their businesses themselves.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

This reminds me of one place in particular in Denver: a funky place that serves "natural, organic, locally grown" food that isn't as good as organic cookies or frozen dinners I've bought at the grocery store. One day I ordered a piece of apple pie and it was FULL of mold. Their prices aren't that low, either. It's in a slightly bad part of town where there aren't any chain stores of any kind. In my experience, independent restaurants within a few blocks of several chains have excellent food and service. These restaurants are in a better part of town, but they also have high-quality competition in the chains. As for the authenticity of the chains, a friend of mine, whose parents were born in Italy, goes to one of the chains and special orders a dish that's just like one his mother used to make.

Yes! My point exactly. It is the immutable law of the marketplace that businesses that do the best job of meeting the needs and desires of their customers will in the long run survive, and those that do not will only continue to exist until someone else comes along and does their job better.

 

[DetroitFalcons]

I have family ties to a couple of old towns that have either died, or are dying.

I remember a report on CNN a few years ago about illegal drugs in rural America. Since they reported from Lenawee County, Michigan (about 50 miles to the sw of Detroit), I remember the report. Basically, drugs (especially meth) have replaced many of the jobs that small manufacturing used to provide until the 70s and 80s. Meth production is set up in small towns because there is very little law enforcement and people are willing to get involved in such things because they are "stuck".

A town dying is a sad thing, but I'm not sure it is any sadder than the "Wonder Years" ranch neighborhood I grew up in. lol

 

[panamag8or]

FooFoo,
Check out Eufaula, Alabama. They have a section of antebellum homes that is amazing.

 

[KY Gentleman]

Here is a good example of an old town being given a new life.
Julliette, GA. had a Main St. that kudzu had taken over, the houses falling down. Then a movie location team renovated it for the movie "Fried Green Tomatoes" and now its still a thriving tourist town. They have a number of stores and even a winery. If you are ever in middle Georgia, check it out.
Foofoo- I am afraid it has no courthouse though.

 

[shortbow]

Hey, ya might want to look at Prescott, Ariz. It was still a cool old town with a fantastic courthouse in the middle of a big block/plaza with a giant bronze out front of a Roughrider when I lived there. Apparently it's become fairly yuppified and californicated since I lived there, but might be worth a look. And if you ever come North, look at Creston, B.C. Good luck to ya.

 

[ET]

My wife- a historian interested in small towns- believes one of the early factors in determining whether a downtown survives or not is the loss of a State or County Highway going through the downtown when they build a bypass- similar to when a small town would whither and die in the West if the railroad did not pass through. When the bypass goes in, the businesses buy up the cheaper land at the offramps and have free parking and so on. Is it a good thing? One of the things that keeps a downtown area alive, if limping, is historical value. It also causes me to advocate against parking meters if that is a source of revenue for the town. If I can buy the same item at the same price on the bypass and don't get nickled and dimed for parking, I will drive to the shop on the edge of town. There are a host of things that can help a downtown survive in addition.

 

[Tango Yankee]

and californicated

Huh? What exactly does this mean? [huh]

 

[Tango Yankee]

While it's true that for the most part the small town main street ideal is gone and the circumstances that created it will never come again, it's certainly an ideal that many miss and relate to--even for those who never actually saw it in person.

I've noticed here in Ohio a couple of non-enclosed shopping malls (one in Columbus, one on the south side of Dayton) that are designed to mimic the appearance of that main street. One looks to be like the Birkdale Village that InspectorMorse referred to. They actually remind me of Disneyland's Main Street.

My wife tells me that our county seat, Portsmouth, used to be a bustling town. It does have a beautiful, well maintained county courthouse (not on a square, alas) and a Post Office from the same era. There's also a city building from that era, but it's been the victim of willful neglect for years as the city "leaders" want a new city building and point to the sad state of the building as one reason why they should have one. They've managed to drive out the mills and most of the manufacturing that used to be in the town, and vigorously work to keep anything from coming in. They did have a mayor a while back who wanted to bring in jobs, and offered tax breaks to a few corporations who were looking to come into the area. He was recalled from office for his troubles. The big fish in this small town don't want competition.

The only real choices we have for buying groceries are 20 minutes to half hour in either direction of our house and consist of either Wal-Mart or Krogers. The largest employers in the area are the college (Shawnee State University), the medical center, and the prison. Amazingly, Portsmouth has managed to avoid developing the types of shops/eateries/bars/etc that you would expect in a college town. As far as I've been able to find there isn't a bookstore (other then, I think, religous ones, the Goodwill, and a used bookstore in Ashland KY) within 75 miles.

I wish I could suggest a thriving small town... but I think that's an oxymoron in southern Ohio.

Regards,
Tom

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I now live in my old home town of Des Moines, Iowa, a city that has been slowly moving west. West Des Moines was just a place called Valley Junction, now it has spread out for miles and miles, while the East and South sides are slowly falling into decay.

We have fine, wonderful old houses, with real yards and front porches, built in the 20's, I love those houses, but the younger people seem to want to move to West Des Moines and live in those big, ugly McMansions. the ones that have no front porch, a three-fourths garage, and little or no yard. And certainly no trees in the foreseeable future.

I am hoping that South Des Moines will be revitalized when people tire of those over-priced homes, perhaps that will happen in this economic crisis, who knows? I get tired of watching store after store relocate to West Des Moines, we have a perfectly good mall here on the South side that is slowly dying.

No, I don't shop Walmart, either. I have seen too many small towns with a beautiful old town square and half the buildings around it standing empty -- no hardware store, clothing store, drug store, or general store, maybe just a couple of restaurants and specialty shops that hang on -- all because a Walmart store is nearby.

What price cheap?

karol

 

[Bourbon Guy]

They did have a mayor a while back who wanted to bring in jobs, and offered tax breaks to a few corporations who were looking to come into the area. He was recalled from office for his troubles. The big fish in this small town don't want competition.

You live in Pottersville. Most small towns are Pottersville. There is no Bedford Falls.

 

[St.Ignatz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango Yankee
They did have a mayor a while back who wanted to bring in jobs, and offered tax breaks to a few corporations who were looking to come into the area. He was recalled from office for his troubles. The big fish in this small town don't want competition.

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You may want a good read on that subject. "The Great American Jobs Scam" by Greg LeRoy. Non partisan author who is brought in by mayors, governors etc. to acquaint the town council or commission with the rules of the game when it comes to tax breaks and such. A straight shooter who wrote a real eye opener.

 

[Tango Yankee]

^^ It's not found in the local library system; perhaps Ross County library will have it. I gather from the review on Amazon that the basic premise is that tax incentives don't work as far as bringing in and keeping decent-paying jobs.

I don't know whether they do or not. All I really know is that every time there's something in the news about this or that company coming in to town to take a look, they never come back. [huh]

Lots of small-town politics here, and they seem to use the recall election almost as often as the regularly-scheduled elections! lol

I'm not actually from here; my wife is. I've only been here about 3.5 years. It took over three years for me to find full-time work in my field (IT) and even then it was because the school I was teaching for as an adjunct instructor part-time was bought by an out-of-state school that actually believed in having good IT support. I started talking to the guy running the team installing new systems, and he commented that they been discussing the fact that they needed an IT person in Ohio as they were all out of the Owensboro KY area. Fortunately, it turned out to be an outstanding company to work for and I know I'm very fortunate to have been hired by them.

It's been rather frustrating to watch the small-mindedness that drives the local area. We'll stay here for a little while, I think, but then we'll move elsewhere, hopefully somewhere with a bit more positive an attitude and future!

Regards,
Tom

 

[B. F. Socaspi]

Mm-mm gentrification. Our town's an old, rural farming town, and you can see glimpses of it around. But now next to all the farms are sprawls of houses and, more recently, shopping centers. Lots of 'em. Really, really sad. One of the signers of the Declaration lived in town, and his house is now rotting and condemned.

 

[Dr Doran]

Hi Foofoo, south of San Francisco is a series of formerly small towns on the way to San Jose. There is a train, a real, gray, steel train with uniformed conductors wearing hats who physically punch your ticket, a two-story commuter train, called Caltrain, that connects the two cities. It stops in the historic downtown of each of the formerly small towns in between San Fran and San Jo: South San Francisco, Redwood City, Atherton, Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Mountain View, Cupertino. Each of these downtowns has apparently enough foot traffic AT LEAST going to and from the train stations to support something of a proper downtown. The entire area between SF and San Jose is highly populated like one big city, but the city limits remain (technically speaking) and the downtowns are OK.

I am not completely sure how they did it. A decision must have been made at some point to have the Caltrain stop in the downtown rather than in the outskirts. But the final effect is, there are downtowns to formerly small towns dotted along the Caltrain stops, and these downtowns may be surrounded by sprawl, but that is a lot better than nothing hereabouts.

Elsewhere in this region, such as if you drive up the Sacramento River from Berkeley, there are small towns I have mentioned in other threads which maintain sleepy but cool historic downtowns. These places are mainly interesting for tourists and bikers (I mean motorcycle riders). They have their little galleries and cafes. Not really a real downtown the way we'd truly like to see it, but something.

 

[Frykitty]

I'm not bragging, but it sounds like it!

I'm from Nelson British Columbia, and If you've ever met anyone from Nelson you know we love to talk about it! It's a small town, 10,000 ish. Thriving downtown core. Hundreds of heritage buildings. Mining town of long ago turned tourist destination. Being in the mountains there is no room for urban sprawl. Many of the old houses are protected by the "Heritage Committee" and cannot be torn down. What else? Bylaws prohibiting chain restaurants. Nelson has found a formula that worked to turn a dying industry town to a colourful, cultural, small town mecca. Oh yeah here is a picture of our courthouse.

 

[dhermann1]

Bristol Ct

I was just chatting with someone on another forum who lives in Bristol Connecticut. I've never been there but it seems very nice. Connecticut is another state that's full of old company towns where the old manufacturing company no longer exists. Clever Bristol managed to make itself the headquarter of ESPN. I don't know how many people they employ directly, but the financial impact must be enormous. Another similar town would be Camp Hill, Pa. They have a computer campus there that is a huge employer.
The medium or small towns that have thrived are the ones that became home to a new high tech industry. Unfortunately, I think the percentage that are able to do that is small.

 

[MB5]

Back when I lived in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, the cities seemed to preserve at least a part of the old town. Carrollton has one
http://www.olddowntowncarrollton.com/
and Coppell had a historic district when I lived there, and hopefully still does.