What happened to small towns?

[Trenchfriend]

Is it true, that US-hygienic standards in gastronomy are extremely strict?

 

[Joe50's]

local soda bar and lunch counter that has been here for years the current owner worked thier 19 years before buying it and offers fresh baked pies and desserts on weekdays . the place is decorated with all pepsi memorobilia and they only serve pepsicola products. my grandma worked ther for a while in the 80's and the uniform was a red half apron and shined saddle shoes. they actually recently bought out the store next door and added another counter and booths along the wall.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Is it true, that US-hygienic standards in gastronomy are extremely strict?

Theoretically they are, but inspectors have been known to be influenced by the occasional "green handshake."

 

[BlueTrain]

My hometown (again) had two drive-ins, plus the Suzy-Q, which was not a drive-in. One of the drive-ins did not have curb service, the other did. The car hops were not on roller skates but the lot wasn't paved anyway. There was a roller-skating rink just over the hill from that drive-in. I don't recall if either of the drive-ins had inside seating or not.

There were a few motels outside of town, out close to what was the end of the West Virginia Turnpike at the time, since incorporated into an interstate. So now there are even more motels and hotels. But the older motels (the new ones are regular chain hotels) generally had nice restaurants. I'm not sure if they were inside the city limits or not. That's also where all the new chain restaurants are now, too.

Small towns used to have plenty of hustle and bustle, which was viewed with mixed feelings at the time. Hustle and bustle was a sign of prosperity, after all, but people still complained about the parking and the traffic. At one time, but which was a very long time ago, a suburb could almost be inside the city limits, although that is stretching things. Suburbs really took off when public transportation was put in place, which would have mainly been the streetcar. Even my hometown had streetcars and that town never had 10,000 people. It connected our town with the college town five miles to the east and the "big city" (30,000 people) ten miles to the west. The streetcar company was appropriately called "Tri-city Traction." Eventually busses replaced the street cars but if you know where to look, you can still see where the tracks were, which followed the "old road." As far as I know, none of the street cars were converted to diners. Going ten miles then seemed like a long ways to go.

On my first trip to Washington, DC, probably in 1958, I rode the street cars. They're experimenting now with bringing them back but the cars are from overseas, from the Czech Republic. Don't know where the old street cars came from.

 

[Fading Fast]

Theoretically they are, but inspectors have been known to be influenced by the occasional "green handshake."

I agree with this and would add two things.

One, it seems that almost anyone who touches / handles food in the food service industry today wears rubber gloves (not waiters though, but a good waiter shouldn't actually touch the food) which I guess is good for preventing open cuts, etc. on the workers hands from infecting the food, but I still see them wiping their mouths and noses with their hands in the gloves (hard not to as a normal person), so it only does so much.

Two, in NYC, several years back they toughened up the system and now restaurants get letter grade ratings for their health inspections that they have to prominently display. When places started getting Bs, Cs and Ds, you saw them clean up their act quickly. Good inspection with transparency was working. Then, of course, the food service industry complained and the gov't folded a bit and the system was weakened where the businesses get longer to fix a problem before they have to put up the low rating. Another example of business and government colluding against the people's best interest.

So while I'm sure there is still the "green handshake -" hard to fully police that - it is the top-down systemic weakening of the code / process that was unfortunate in NYC.

 

[AmateisGal]

Another reason for small towns to get smaller - or even die - is when schools are consolidated. This is especially prevalent in the Midwest-Great Plains area. If a school goes, a large part of the community goes with it. People don't want to move to a town that doesn't have a school.

 

[LizzieMaine]

That's happening up here, too -- and it's happening as a direct result of the influx of retirees who (1) don't have kids of school age, and (2) don't want to pay school taxes and keep voting the budget down every June. The schools here were built to support a population of a far different demographic, and with that demographic gone now, the towns can't afford to keep the schools open. And that means young working families with kids don't want to move here which means we get all the older transplants who, let's face it, are going to be dead in fifteen years, and really don't have any long-term stake in the communities they're colonizing. But oh, the pretty view...

 

[belfastboy]

That's happening up here, too -- and it's happening as a direct result of the influx of retirees who (1) don't have kids of school age, and (2) don't want to pay school taxes and keep voting the budget down every June. The schools here were built to support a population of a far different demographic, and with that demographic gone now, the towns can't afford to keep the schools open. And that means young working families with kids don't want to move here which means we get all the older transplants who, let's face it, are going to be dead in fifteen years, and really don't have any long-term stake in the communities they're colonizing. But oh, the pretty view...

News flash Lizzie.....we all are going to die!

 

[LizzieMaine]

Quite true. But a person who's going to be dead in fifteen years likely has far different concerns and priorities than a person who's got another forty or fifty years ahead of them.

 

[Fading Fast]

That's happening up here, too -- and it's happening as a direct result of the influx of retirees who (1) don't have kids of school age, and (2) don't want to pay school taxes and keep voting the budget down every June. The schools here were built to support a population of a far different demographic, and with that demographic gone now, the towns can't afford to keep the schools open. And that means young working families with kids don't want to move here which means we get all the older transplants who, let's face it, are going to be dead in fifteen years, and really don't have any long-term stake in the communities they're colonizing. But oh, the pretty view...

Sincere question: does the older retiree population that passes on, get replaced by a younger retiree population - so while the actually people change, does the community maintain the same population numbers?

 

[LizzieMaine]

No. Our population is declining. Right now it's just a dite over 7200. We've lost nearly a thousand people since 1990 -- and nearly 3000 since 1950. The decline is getting sharper as the median age of the population increases.

 

[Fading Fast]

Any thoughts on why younger retirees aren't replacing the older ones as "the pretty view" is still there and the town sounds like it has the gentrification the retirees like?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I meant "no", the population isn't rising, not "no, more retirees aren't coming."

The problem here is not only that young working families don't want to come here, the ones already here are being driven out. They can't afford the property taxes -- which are much higher than they should be because of all the non-profit organizations that own huge swaths of tax-exempt real estate here, many of them to provide the "amenities" and "activities" that the retirees demand. The result is a population with a perpetual short-term view and no real long-term interest in the good of the community as a whole.

The more young working people leave, and the more retirees take their place, the worse the situation gets. School consolidation is only the tip of the iceberg -- we're already at the point of making deep cuts in emergency services because "the voters" -- largely made up here of the retiree class -- demand "austerity." We'll see how they like it when they've fallen and can't get up and there aren't enough EMTs to go around to help them.

 

[Fading Fast]

Living in a cooperative apartment building, I have seen the same attitude from some. Some shareholders are rational, want a budget that pays for essential services - taxes, maintenance, garbage pick up, etc., - and others want it all done "as long as my monthly fees don't increase."

That's not how the world works - things cost money and if you don't pay for them, then you don't have them. If the cost of those things goes up, then each shareholder's monthly fees will go up - this isn't rocket science.

I am generally in favor of "austerity," not referencing the current political vogue of the word, but in being frugal, getting the best value for your money, not buying luxury when regular will do and I want those same principals applied to our building management - which it it, so far, thankfully.

That's austerity I'm fine with. If austerity means cutting out essential services but still expecting them to be there - that's just silly.

IMHO, the next step with your town seems to be it will either morph into a sustainable retirement town where the residents ultimately pay what is necessary for essential services or the town will decline to a place where younger retirees shun it. My experience has been - with older family and friends - that retirees do a decent amount of research before choosing a place to move to and, if your town doesn't offer essential services, they'll choose elsewhere.

 

[vitanola]

It does seem a shame though that those who have for a couple generations been invested in the community would feel that they were pushed out.

Reminds me of my cousin. Her grandfather moved his home and bakery out of the "old neighborhood" (Yorkville) out in to the "country" in Astoria in 1909 (shortly after the IRT Queensboro line was announced. He moved to location which was a block from the eventual Ditmars station) in those days that part of Astoria was being settled largely by Bohemians and Germans from Yorkville and Kleindeutschland. The family stayed as the neighborhood grew, apartment blocks were built, the ethnic makeup changed to Italian (Tony Bennett grew up across the street), and then to Greek. In the 1970's there was an Hispanic influx, then came the Asians, mostly East Indian and Korean. Through all the basic character of the neighborhood stayed the same. Then the neighborhood "got hot" right around the turn of the millennium. The little single and two family houses are one by one coming down and are being replaced by four and five story "Fedders Houses", which of course cover three or four lots. The density has increased and the neighborhood is unrecognizable. As recently as 2001, I could go visit and be recognized by most of the neighbors as "Cousin Bob from Ohio" by nearly everyone that I saw on that block even though i had only come by infrequently. Everyone sat out on their stoops in the summer, and were in and out of each others houses and little yards in the winter. Now the neighborhood is experiencing a wave of displaced Manhattanites, and has become a much more closed-up place.

 

[Fading Fast]

It is a shame that those who have a vested history and true commitment to a community sometimes "lose" the community through forces beyond their control.

I first had a version of this feeling when a company I worked for early in my career that had been in business since 1905 and was a true family business - third generation owner, son being groomed, employees spent their entire career there and felt like "family" and were treated that way in a non-condescing manner - had to merge. As regulation increased dramatically, financial firms were forced to merge to absorb the rapidly increasing regulatory costs (which is why you see few small brokerage firms today; whereas, thirty years ago there were, literally hundreds of small, family owned firm) and the company I worked for (actually had just left) was bought out by a larger firm that had none of the family / community feel and many of the older employees - who, in truth, were paid more than made business sense, but that was the older family firm's values - were let go.

All very sad, but one of those ancient, super-smart Greek philosophers (forget which one) was right - change is the only constant. Sometimes it's Adam Smith's ruthlessly efficient invisible hand, sometimes, as in the case of the firm I worked for, it is changing gov't rules and regulations and, sometimes, it is any of a host of other reasons - societal tastes change, key people pass away, etc. - but change just keeps happening and its ramifications to loyal members of the status quo can be devastating.

 

[ChiTownScion]

The more young working people leave, and the more retirees take their place, the worse the situation gets. School consolidation is only the tip of the iceberg -- we're already at the point of making deep cuts in emergency services because "the voters" -- largely made up here of the retiree class -- demand "austerity." We'll see how they like it when they've fallen and can't get up and there aren't enough EMTs to go around to help them.

This is exactly why my wife and I refuse to retire to a place where there are too many, well, folks like us: old people. Personally, I don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of old crabby people who are always putting down the young ones who are doing their best just to get ahead. I too remember those "good old days" and they were not always so good. Except that then, a person in their 20's at least had a chance to sacrifice, delay gratifications, and maybe lift themselves up a little in the future.

Rather than dissing the millennials, I enjoy cheering them on, encouraging them to keep at it and not get discouraged. I had that from older people when I was young, and I want to pass that on. For them AND their kids. Educational opportunities for all mean that we all benefit- and I don't mind paying higher taxes to see that happen. Good schools assure that all of our kids will play a valuable role in an increasingly global environment. And that begins by funding teacher salaries, books, and other equipment. I don't much care for crying babies in restaurants and other public places... but I'll take crying babies over bitchy middle agers and geriatrics, ANY time.

 

[ChiTownScion]

I have a real attitude about old retiree types who won't vote to raise a nickel of their property taxes to improve education, but want state of the art paramedic services on the public's dime: surviving the big one after decades of junk food and alcohol is their God given right, but a ten year old kid in an overcrowded classroom can take a flying leap.

The village where we lived had four separate grade school districts, and the facilities in each were anything but equal to one another. The kids who lived in the same district as the "retirement community" had one school and the old fogeys wouldn't pay a nickel more for taxes on their condos. The parents of the kids were paying taxes on $600,000 plus homes, so it wasn't as if they were not pulling their weight with taxes. Clearly, the retirees wanted to get as much as they could while putting in as little as they could. I would NEVER want to spend my "golden years" surrounded by such selfish, shameless jerks.

 

[EngProf]

I have a real attitude about old retiree types who won't vote to raise a nickel of their property taxes to improve education, but want state of the art paramedic services on the public's dime: surviving the big one after decades of junk food and alcohol is their God given right, but a ten year old kid in an overcrowded classroom can take a flying leap.

The village where we lived had four separate grade school districts, and the facilities in each were anything but equal to one another. The kids who lived in the same district as the "retirement community" had one school and the old fogeys wouldn't pay a nickel more for taxes on their condos. The parents of the kids were paying taxes on $600,000 plus homes, so it wasn't as if they were not pulling their weight with taxes. Clearly, the retirees wanted to get as much as they could while putting in as little as they could. I would NEVER want to spend my "golden years" surrounded by such selfish, shameless jerks.

As an "old-fogey" who isn't retired, in large part because of our exorbitant property taxes, there is another side to the story. I bought my house back when my neighborhood was just an ordinary neighborhood with moderate house/property prices. Then it became "hot" and then "red-hot" due to it's near-city location. Gentrification, etc.
My property reassessment jumped by 50% in the reassessment before last and another 40% in the most recent reassessment. The word is that it will go up another 30-40% in the next round.
Has my salary increased anywhere near that rate over the past decade?? NO!! Is my property tax payment far greater than my mortgage ever was?? YES!!
Don't say I'm rich because the property is (theoretically) worth so much. The only way to get that money is to sell out and live in the street or go somewhere I don't want to go. ("We had to destroy the village in order to save it.")

I curse the city roundly every time I pay my property tax. I consider it a protection racket with bureaucrats running it instead of mobsters.

 

[HudsonHawk]

As an "old-fogey" who isn't retired, in large part because of our exorbitant property taxes, there is another side to the story. I bought my house back when my neighborhood was just an ordinary neighborhood with moderate house/property prices. Then it became "hot" and then "red-hot" due to it's near-city location. Gentrification, etc.
My property reassessment jumped by 50% in the reassessment before last and another 40% in the most recent reassessment. The word is that it will go up another 30-40% in the next round.
Has my salary increased anywhere near that rate over the past decade?? NO!! Is my property tax payment far greater than my mortgage ever was?? YES!!
Don't say I'm rich because the property is (theoretically) worth so much. The only way to get that money is to sell out and live in the street or go somewhere I don't want to go. ("We had to destroy the village in order to save it.")

I curse the city roundly every time I pay my property tax. I consider it a protection racket with bureaucrats running it instead of mobsters.

There is quite a bit of this out there. I've known many residents of long-established communities who simply wished to be able to keep it that, a close-knit working class neighborhood, but simply can't afford to pay the ever escalating property taxes. Their voting down tax increases has nothing to do with not giving a damn about schools or young people.