What Happened to Chivalry?

[Prairie Dog]

Chivalry is gone, or so it appears to be in today's society. The days of gentlemen opening doors for ladies, standing when a woman enters the room, doffing a cap respectfully, seem to be firmly fixed in the "good old days."

I found this website last night while doing some personal research and - from what I've read of it - I really like what it has to say.

http://www.chivalrynow.net/intro.htm

Perhaps we can springboard this questionnaire I found on the site into a discussion.

1) Does the word Chivalry convey a positive or negative image in your mind?
Positive:___ Neutral:___ Negative:___

2) Is there anything about Chivalry you find appealing? If so, what?

3) Is there anything you dislike about Chivalry? If so, what?

4) How would you define Chivalry?


5) Do you find a focus on these values missing in your life?
Yes ___ No ___

6) The Order of the Round Table was a fabled order of knighthood started by the legendary King Arthur. Only prestigious knights of proven skill, courage and virtue were invited to belong. This brotherhood worked together for the good of Arthur’s realm.

If you were invited to join a similar Round Table today, would you:

__ Accept without hesitation.
__ Find the offer attractive or flattering and actively look into it.
__ Want to know more about it first, but only if the info comes your way.
__ Feel somewhat amused, but not interested.
__ Think the idea is stupid, even though it appeals to something deep inside you.
__ Think the idea has no relevance.
__ Consider it a complete turn-off.

7) Camelot represents a kind of Utopia based on Chivalry. It is a realm that enjoys peace, grace and beauty. The people are inspired by high ideals and work together in respect and harmonious cooperation. They value and appreciate what they have. In a world saturated by corporate greed, consumerism and politics tainted by corruption and special interests, how do you view Camelot as a symbol? Which of the following statements most closely resembles your opinion:

__ It is a valuable ideal that can be used for cultural, social & political improvement.
__ It has some nostalgic value.
__ As a symbol for change, it is probably too late to make a difference.
__ A nice idea that can have no realistic impact on today’s world.
__ Ridiculous to try.
__ I like the way things are, and don’t want change.

8)Would you personally like to see men act more chivalrous?
Yes ___ No ___

Comments?

 

[JimWagner]

Let's not confuse chivalry with manners.

Chivalry and the Knights of the Round Table were largely a construct of Thomas Malory in Le Morte d'Arthur. Pure romance. Not history.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

What Happened to Chivalry?

Don Quixote de la Mancha asked the same thing ... over 400 years ago.


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[Nathan Dodge]

"Common courtesy went out with common sense."

~A fellow record store employee, answering my question sometime in the mid-1990s.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

"Common courtesy went out with common sense."

Truth be told, common sense has never been all that common.


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[Carlisle Blues]

This is something to aspire to:

The twelve chivalric virtues (14th Century)

* Faith
* Charity
* Justice
* Sagacity
* Prudence
* Temperance
* Resolution
* Truth
* Liberality
* Diligence
* Hope
* Valour

as defined by the Duke of Burgundy for the Order of the Golden Fleece

I have to be honest while I do not tip my hat, I nod and smile and say hello. I open doors and in the right setting stand when anyone comes into the room. I say thank you and please and once I have you where I want you I ask for a loan for which I will never repay..

Does this make me better or worse than someone who does not do this I hardly think so.

 

[The Wolf]

The lack of courtesy and chivalry was lamented even in the 1930s/1940s.
However, I think they are still worthwhile.
I will try to keep this light lit in the darkness of brutishness as long as I'm able.

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[LizzieMaine]

The key to real chivalry is humbleness. If your main interest is in impressing other people with how chivalrous you are, you ain't.

 

[Tiller]

IMHO chivalry in many ways is when you have power, but don't use that power against innocent people in one way or another. It has it's idealized roots in an attempting to tame military classes all over the world (Bushido being the Japanese ideal for the Samurai class, and by extension Japan's "chivalry".) In the United States George Washington wrote books on manners, and what it is to be a gentleman, and a man of power who knows when and how to use it. And of course in our modern mythology Stan Lee, and Steve Ditko have made Spiderman's most famous stories by having them rotate around the idea that "with great power comes great responsibility" .

I believe it boils down to the idea that the strong shouldn't try to harm or control the weak. Sadly I don't think that that ideal has been followed often, and not just because all people who are powerful are "evil". [huh] Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

My school's favorite hymn. We sang it every two weeks in chapel:


"For the brave of every race,
All who served and fell on sleep,
Whose forgotten resting place
Rolling years have buried deep –
Brotherhood of good and godly men,
Of earth's age-long chivalry –
Source and giver of all good,
Lord, we praise, we worship Thee.

Prince and peasant, bond and free,
Warriors wielding freedom's sword,
Bold adventurers on the sea,
Faithful stewards of the word,
Toilers in the mine and mill,
Toilers at the furnace blaze,
Long forgotten, living still,
All thy servants tell Thy praise.

Valiantly o'er sea and land
Trod they the untrodden way,
True and faithful to command,
Swift and fearless to obey,
Strong in heart and hand and brain,
Strong, yet battling for the weak,
Recked they not of their own gain,
Their own safety scorned to seek.

Marvels new and manifold,
Taught of Thee, they taught their day;
Fear and bondage, long grown old,
In Thy strength they swept away;
Healed the sick and halt and lame,
Made the doubly blind to see;
Glorious Lord, their glorious name
Safe is treasured up with Thee.

Evermore their life abides
Who have lived to do Thy will;
High above the restless tides
Stands their city on the hill;
Lord and Light of every age,
By Thy same sure counsel led,
Heirs of their great heritage
In their footsteps we will tread."



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[thunderw21]

Defense of the defenseless is pretty high up there for me.

Being a Sheepdog, standing between the Sheep and the Wolves.

 

[Tomasso]

Today, many woman perceive chivalry as a sign of weakness.

 

[Chas]

Feminism happened. Chivalry is/was perceived as a value based upon the idea that women were weak and needed protection. Perhaps it is disappearing in the natural evolutionary change in human psychology.

To be replaced by something more adaptive and useful, perhaps.

 

[Tomasso]

Chivalry is/was perceived as a value based upon the idea that women were weak and needed protection.

Don't forget children and the elderly.

 

[Chas]

I was referring to the view of chivalry from the feminist perspective.

 

[Guttersnipe]

My great grandma used to say that - and she was born in 1885!

Truth be told, common sense has never been all that common..

 

[Marc Chevalier]

My great grandma used to say that - and she was born in 1885!

I'm older than I look.


But seriously ... nothing is new under the sun.

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[Foofoogal]

To me loyalty is the rarest of all today. To be courteous and then not loyal. Well..[huh]

oh, and truth right behind that. Nothing worse then yes men. The pitfall of every successful man, right behind bad women.
(evidently Tiger had both)

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Nothing worse then yes men.

I agree..

In any relationship, I approach it with the attitude of, "I will not tell you what you want to hear, I will tell you what you need to hear".

This also brings to mind, “A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero only one.” Shakespeare. The coward lives the potential outcomes repeatedly in his mind, continually bringing up the pain that will certainly accompany the event being considered. But the hero just goes for it anyway. He doesn’t think about it much. He simply moves in the direction of the feared thing and nearly always finds that things are rarely as uncomfortable as they were perceived to be in the first place.

The reality is, "the truth shall set you free". In my world "yes men" are fearful little creatures not worthy of respect, but, live in the shadows of those who dare to stand on their own two feet.


The only consolation is that the "yes men" will keep Chapstick in business for many years because someone who puckers up to the behind of another needs to keep those lips moist...lol

 

[Zip Gun Aria]

C.S. Lewis says rather interesting things about chivalry in his scholarly study, Allegory of Love. His thesis is that the misreading of Ovid's Art of Love (which is largely satirical), combined with the sexual intolerance of medieval Christianity (not a put-down of the religion -- consider who C.S. Lewis is), resulted in an alternate religion of love, with codes of conduct elevating the beloved and the ritual of romance to a kind of divinity.

He also says that the relationship of thane to lord -- often worshipful, in those days -- was soon transferred to that between common men and the Lady of the Castle.

Acts of self-debasing chivalry are explored throughout, particularly in Lancelot, by Chrétien de Troyes.