What are you Writing?

[Fading Fast]

....is an outline required or can one just start with a thinnest of a premise and write from there?

Great writers have done it both ways. I, certainly not a great writer, need an outline as an initial structure and to keep me from worrying that I'll get lost or write myself into a corner. That said, I will veer from the outline if I see an opening.

The outline is a discipline for me that gets me going and, as noted, gives me some comfort, but it is not a dictator. If I am in the middle and see a better way to go, I'll alter the outline. I don't think there is a right or wrong, just whatever works to help you write better.

 

[Benzadmiral]

. . . Currently I'm mulling over an idea for another "Man from U.N.C.L.E." fan story. True, nobody will pay money for these stories; but, "Writing fan fiction isn't work, it's joyful play," and writing them is a good way to keep your skills sharp. This time I'm trying to work out a crossover with two characters from a famous Billy Wilder movie. However, I have no real plot yet, and I'm very much a plot writer.

Okay, I have something of a plot. One idea I have involves a setting, a children's playground with statues and pirate ships and fairy-tale characters, such as our City Park has ("Storyland"). However, did such a thing exist anywhere in the Manhattan of the early to mid-1960s? Anybody know, or know how I could find out?

 

[AmateisGal]

Okay, I have something of a plot. One idea I have involves a setting, a children's playground with statues and pirate ships and fairy-tale characters, such as our City Park has ("Storyland"). However, did such a thing exist anywhere in the Manhattan of the early to mid-1960s? Anybody know, or know how I could find out?

I'm thinking Fading Fast would be the one to ask.

 

[AmateisGal]

Last thing I wrote: a press release. HATE those things. But it's done. Have to get the women correspondents article DONE this weekend. Then maybe I can get back to my novel which I really really miss.

 

[MikeKardec]

I am engrossed in reading Faulkner these days but bogged down with The Sound and The Fury so have put it aside for Light in August. The best part of TS&TF was Faulkner's intro where he spoke to his process. He said the failing of As I Lay Dying was that he knew too much, about the characters and their story and he no longer wished to write that way. He said the Light in August he started out with a pregnant woman walking down a path, that is all he knew and he wrote the story from there. I look forward to reading it to see where he takes it. It is a fascinating concept....is an outline required or can one just start with a thinnest of a premise and write from there?

My dad, 91 novels and over 200 short stories, rarely outlined in any coherent way and even incoherently only about half the time. Often he put "himself" (really his characters) into a situation and just let himself react to it. He generally did not like to know what was going to happen, and he often lost interest in a story if he knew too much about it ... thus he did only the roughest outlines which rarely covered the ending and took only the roughest sets of notes. THAT SAID, he wrote every day for 6 to 8 hours and by the time I came along he'd been dong that for at least 25 years (with a couple off for WWII). HE was really in the groove and firing on all his unconscious cylinders.

Strangely, he wrote quite a few treatments (the description of the narrative). That was the kiss of death. By the time he was done he rarely had any interest in the damn thing at all. I can't figure out why he did it unless he didn't catch on 'til late in the game that in was an inspiration killer.

I like an outline myself but I'm a demon for getting all the details and nuances right, that's as exciting for me as discovering the ending. I can go back and forth over and over something honing it to an invisible edge ... sort of, I'm not one of those "literary perfectionists" you read about in the NY Times Book Review ... if I was only that talented! Anyway, I came out of screen writing rather than the pulps so Dad was all plot but I get persnickety about dialog, always looking for the perfect word choice that reveals character.

An outline is really useful but don't feel obligated to follow it.

 

[belfastboy]

My dad, 91 novels and over 200 short stories, rarely outlined in any coherent way and even incoherently only about half the time. Often he put "himself" (really his characters) into a situation and just let himself react to it. He generally did not like to know what was going to happen, and he often lost interest in a story if he knew too much about it ... thus he did only the roughest outlines which rarely covered the ending and took only the roughest sets of notes. THAT SAID, he wrote every day for 6 to 8 hours and by the time I came along he'd been dong that for at least 25 years (with a couple off for WWII). HE was really in the groove and firing on all his unconscious cylinders.

Strangely, he wrote quite a few treatments (the description of the narrative). That was the kiss of death. By the time he was done he rarely had any interest in the damn thing at all. I can't figure out why he did it unless he didn't catch on 'til late in the game that in was an inspiration killer.

I like an outline myself but I'm a demon for getting all the details and nuances right, that's as exciting for me as discovering the ending. I can go back and forth over and over something honing it to an invisible edge ... sort of, I'm not one of those "literary perfectionists" you read about in the NY Times Book Review ... if I was only that talented! Anyway, I came out of screen writing rather than the pulps so Dad was all plot but I get persnickety about dialog, always looking for the perfect word choice that reveals character.

An outline is really useful but don't feel obligated to follow it.

I am going to have fun and enjoy the discovery process. Just rewrote the ending of my book and I am much happier with it. After 3 edits of my own I have declared it finished for the second time and am sending it to a proofer/editor for spelling, grammar, punctuation etc etc. I am also beginning the process of a search for a 'story' editor but a little fearful as I do not have clarity on the skill set I seek from this editor. I have put the word out and will see what comes back.

 

[MikeKardec]

I am also beginning the process of a search for a 'story' editor but a little fearful as I do not have clarity on the skill set I seek from this editor.

A lot of it depends on what you want to do with it. There are few people who can help you make it more of what you'd like it to be, few have any talent and fewer still can can detach themselves enough to be of use. My first suggestion might be to put it in a drawer for 6 months, start writing something else then come back to it and see what you think and if you want to change it any. Really, that can make a BIG difference, even with serious pros.

The reason I'm suspicious of anyone trying to help you with your story is that I've worked with some 20 professional editors and found few of them to be very helpful. I've watched others work with top writers and had the same opinion. And they even had the goal of turning the stories into something their company would want to publish, they didn't even have to try to worry about helping the writer be happy with it. It's not impossible to find someone who can help, just hard. Very hard. If you find someone who can help you and you actually like them, marry them. man or woman, just marry them ... they are that valuable.

Several ideas.

1) as I already said, put it aside and write something else, then look at again. While you are doing that maybe start reading all those books on writing that people like me suggested might stifle your creativity. Compare what they make you think to what you have done but GO EASY ON YOURSELF. One or two books does not turn you into the worlds best critic of your own work over night. Mostly pay attention to what those books make you THINK ... not whether you've done something right or wrong. I really can't stress that enough, pay attention to what they make you think about your story, not what judgements they might make you have!

2) Take a writing class. New ideas, new people, all will stimulate your mind and keep you reacting to your material in new and different ways. God knows I have learned that your stories can teach you how to write but you might need some insight before you learn how to listen to them. Possibly take an acting class ... though that was one of the ways I learned to write I will admit that one beginning acting class isn't enough. I had to get to the point where I was working on sophisticated material and with sophisticated actors before it really started to help me. Join a writer's group, which you can usually find locally on the internet. Better yet find the writer's group in your closest big city if you are not already in one.

3) If you try it out on people in a class, especially your instructor, and find they think it's somewhat professional try it out on an agent (though they can take forever to get back to you). I am a firm believer that no one can really tell you anything interesting about your work (besides yourself) unless they have skin in the game. Some one who buys or someone who sells ... those are the people with skin in the game. Do not PAY anyone to read it or to offer their opinion unless you can afford to throw the money away. Their opinion is probably worth little and it would probably be better spent on a writing class (and the input of a teacher and other students).

Good luck and congratulations!

 

[belfastboy]

A lot of it depends on what you want to do with it. There are few people who can help you make it more of what you'd like it to be, few have any talent and fewer still can can detach themselves enough to be of use. My first suggestion might be to put it in a drawer for 6 months, start writing something else then come back to it and see what you think and if you want to change it any. Really, that can make a BIG difference, even with serious pros.

The reason I'm suspicious of anyone trying to help you with your story is that I've worked with some 20 professional editors and found few of them to be very helpful. I've watched others work with top writers and had the same opinion. And they even had the goal of turning the stories into something their company would want to publish, they didn't even have to try to worry about helping the writer be happy with it. It's not impossible to find someone who can help, just hard. Very hard. If you find someone who can help you and you actually like them, marry them. man or woman, just marry them ... they are that valuable.

Several ideas.

1) as I already said, put it aside and write something else, then look at again. While you are doing that maybe start reading all those books on writing that people like me suggested might stifle your creativity. Compare what they make you think to what you have done but GO EASY ON YOURSELF. One or two books does not turn you into the worlds best critic of your own work over night. Mostly pay attention to what those books make you THINK ... not whether you've done something right or wrong. I really can't stress that enough, pay attention to what they make you think about your story, not what judgements they might make you have!

2) Take a writing class. New ideas, new people, all will stimulate your mind and keep you reacting to your material in new and different ways. God knows I have learned that your stories can teach you how to write but you might need some insight before you learn how to listen to them. Possibly take an acting class ... though that was one of the ways I learned to write I will admit that one beginning acting class isn't enough. I had to get to the point where I was working on sophisticated material and with sophisticated actors before it really started to help me. Join a writer's group, which you can usually find locally on the internet. Better yet find the writer's group in your closest big city if you are not already in one.

3) If you try it out on people in a class, especially your instructor, and find they think it's somewhat professional try it out on an agent (though they can take forever to get back to you). I am a firm believer that no one can really tell you anything interesting about your work (besides yourself) unless they have skin in the game. Some one who buys or someone who sells ... those are the people with skin in the game. Do not PAY anyone to read it or to offer their opinion unless you can afford to throw the money away. Their opinion is probably worth little and it would probably be better spent on a writing class (and the input of a teacher and other students).

Good luck and congratulations!

Mike: If I am ever in LA I owe you a very nice dinner. Thank you for this. I just received a reply from an editor and what they have offered me is a "beta" read of the manuscript. The cost is under $200 and they will give me feedback on what worked from their perspective as a reader, what worked, what interested them, what bored them, what confused them. This strikes a chord with me. It seems a very good next step after I receive the story feedback from the 3 people I have sent the manuscript to as you suggested.....feedback on purely what story they read as information I can use to compare their view of the story compared to the story I think I wrote. Will keep you posted.
I agree about setting it aside as I am getting tooo wrapped up in it all. I just reread it today in a paper/printed form as I would read a book. Surprisingly I like the writing, I am satisfied with it! The question exists still, is it a book, do these words actually comprise a compelling story??
Thanks, bob

 

[MikeKardec]

For $200 I'd do it (but I have no idea what your financial situation is) just don't take it too seriously and again, pay more attention to what their criticism makes you think creatively about the story as you get the feedback than whether the story or a section or a line is "good" or "bad." If you can have voice contact with the "editor" try to get them to do what I said elsewhere: have them tell you the story first, before the do any crit. You might get them to write out a description but it'll be useless if they are checking through you manuscript then writing their version of your story then checking back to your manuscript and writing a bit more. The best, "tell me the story" learning sessions come from someone telling it from memory, even if they finished it an hour before you asked them. After they tell you the story, if they CAN, then it's time to get their opinion. You'll even now how to apply that crit because you'll know what THEY think your story is ... as I've said, sometimes what others think s pretty surprising! You have to accept it as their experience and that you led them to have that experience but the first and most useful thing is to know what they think the story actually is. If I had someone I half way trusted to bother I'd pay $200 to have them read and then just tell me the story as they perceived it.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Anybody here in the medical field? I'm rewriting a story in which a young woman, healthy, age 23, is being examined at a hospital in the U.S. for minor exposure and exhaustion. A logical diagnosis, since she has just hiked across a mountain ridge at ~ 10K feet above sea level (an elevation she's not used to), then has driven a vehicle in darkness and light snow to the hospital. (She was rescuing her boss from diabetic coma, if it matters.) Now my plot doesn't require her to be admitted to the hospital; as long as the staff treats her, and thus runs up some charges, that's good enough.

An Ixquick search for "hospital treatment" "exhaustion" (and excluding "heat exhaustion") gives me lots of stories about people being treated for exhaustion, but no specifics. Naturally the doctors will take her vital signs and get some water into her. What else? Vitamin injection? Oxygen? Some real food, since she hasn't eaten in some 7-8 hours?

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[BriarWolf]

I was in the EMS field for a little while, and mostly just muscle, but from what I've seen it would depend on her signs and symptoms, the hospital, the individual staff treating her - it may be something as simple as checking for proper fluid levels (an IV if severely dehydrated), a little time off her feet, and then getting her out the door with orders to take it easy. The hospital I worked with, which was in a relatively small rural-suburban area and not busy by urban standards, would always work to clear space as quickly as possible. Anybody that didn't absolutely need medical care in that environment wasn't kept around long. Honestly, unless you need a scene taking place during the examination you could write the whole thing off in a single line of dialogue. I generally find when writing that if I'm getting too hung up on the technical details of a single point that's holding up the story, I need to write around it and move on.

 

[MikeKardec]

Anybody here in the medical field? I'm rewriting a story in which a young woman, healthy, age 23, is being examined at a hospital in the U.S. for minor exposure and exhaustion. A logical diagnosis, since she has just hiked across a mountain ridge at ~ 10K feet above sea level (an elevation she's not used to), then has driven a vehicle in darkness and light snow to the hospital. (She was rescuing her boss from diabetic coma, if it matters.) Now my plot doesn't require her to be admitted to the hospital; as long as the staff treats her, and thus runs up some charges, that's good enough.

An Ixquick search for "hospital treatment" "exhaustion" (and excluding "heat exhaustion") gives me lots of stories about people being treated for exhaustion, but no specifics. Naturally the doctors will take her vital signs and get some water into her. What else? Vitamin injection? Oxygen? Some real food, since she hasn't eaten in some 7-8 hours?

Any suggestions appreciated.

I'm guessing you can wrangle talking to a Doc or and ER nurse if you really try but I lived in the mountains of Colorado for awhile and here's some things I'd ask or consider.
1) What time of year? That could turn this from grueling to flat out awful!

2) What altitude does she live at normally? Under 5k and she's not going to be ready for the sort of weirdness that happens over 10k to people from sea level, or people like me who have lived too long at sea level.

3) What elevation did she start her hike at? There are 10k mountains and some 12k mountains all around my parents ranch but all the surrounding countryside is nearly 8k. 2000 feet can be a heck of a climb for someone from sea level but if she started lower it's even worse. Having to do it fast is HARD, and I don't mean at a run just walking without stopping too many times ... unless you live at high altitude, like above 6000 or so, then it's easier if you're in shape and trained at that level. A solid walk can make you breathe like a jog or run, depending on what you are doing.

Serious exercise at that altitude can set off many kinds of heart ailments, even for a young person. I had a friend who died at 33 of a heart attack mountain biking at around 10k and she was a serious athlete.

4) High mountains in the west are VERY dry. When I go back to SW Colorado my eyes hurt it's so dry, especially in the winter. Dehydration could be what you are looking for. Basically a rehydration drink more "technical" than Gatoraid. Do a search for rehydration salts. If you come from below 5k or so you are going to SUCK WIND and all that breathing will dry you out quickly. The exertion can of course make you sweat and loose minerals.

5) How high is the ER? If you are still at considerable altitude, like 6 to 9k, she could easily try to stand up and black out ... I have slightly low blood pressure and I really pace myself when it comes to things like standing up suddenly when I stand up in the 8k to 10k range. Once she's down to some reasonable altitude say 8k or under I'm not sure Oxy would help. If someone found her passed out in the high mountains? Maybe she'd be given oxygen ... maybe. Many small towns only have a clinic, no real hospital. Within 7-8 hours it's pretty hard to go from 10k to below 5k in many places ... maybe the Sierras. But unless she drives for 3 hours, you just can't travel far enough

6) I don't see a lack of food for 7-8 hours in an emergency as really a problem but I'm certainly not a doc. I doubt that vitamins would be required, again, I'm not a doc or any sort of expert.

7) Any walk in the woods can leave you with scratches, falls, sprains ... the sky's the limit.

8) At a guess "exhaustion" may mean running utterly off your adrenals for too long, now that I think about it something like a catecholamine or neurotransmitter test might be in order. You might research that but i suspect most Docs don't go there. I suspect that most people get back to normal pretty quickly, however.

9) At any time of year conditions up that high can be cold. It's common to find snow in shady areas year round. The difference between sunny and shady temps can be amazing. If she sweats and stops in the shade she could get hypothermic or something like that. Cold wind could freeze sweat or turn cotton clothing into a soaked layer that chills her without insulating. Backpackers love fleece and wool for this reason. MANY times in the winter I have sat in the sun in my sweats for long periods of time when the thermometer read 30 degrees with no discomfort. The instant you step into the shade, you feel it. There's no atmosphere to retain any warmth and little to cut the radiant energy of the sun. Think sunburn, I turn very red from high altitude sun, none of that 'tropical bronzing'.

10) Grab a map and get on line. Call Small town clinics in the Rocky's until someone is willing to talk to you. Try the nursing school at a college in the right area or the public relations people at a high altitude hospital. Check out Mercy Regional Medical Center in Durango, CO they are a biggish (for the area) hospital and so might have a PR person. They are at 6500 and treat a LOT of extreme sports enthusiasts who get in trouble biking, hiking, snowboarding and such. 10k is a mid sized mountain for that area. There might be a nursing school at Fort Lewis College in Durango too.

Good Luck and I hope some physician jumps in here and gives you some more detailed and higher quality advice!

 

[Benzadmiral]

Mike,

Your details are exactly what I need. No, her hike is not 7 or 8 hours long. She ate at noon or so; she and her boss are stranded without cellphone service or a vehicle about 6 pm in October at about 9000 feet; they walk slowly up and over a ridge that probably is around 500 feet in elevation, then down. They take a short break out of the cold wind and light snow in a house, but for various reasons they can't use the phone there. So Sydney, my heroine, loads her boss into the only vehicle there, a school bus, and drives them around to the clinic in Leadville at 10,000 feet. I'd say their entire ordeal lasts about 2-2.5 hours. The major conflict is not so much her health. It's that her boss, age 50, is a diabetic, and his insulin was smashed when they were stranded. It's why they can't simply wait for the owners of the home to come back.

I'd think Sydney's worst problems would be tiredness and lightheadedness from exertion at that altitude; she's from Noo Awlins, but in the story has been at 10,000 feet, not exercising, for about a week. Also dehydration. (And worrying about how much this ER visit is going to cost --!)

 

[Benzadmiral]

I was in the EMS field for a little while, and mostly just muscle, but from what I've seen it would depend on her signs and symptoms, the hospital, the individual staff treating her - it may be something as simple as checking for proper fluid levels (an IV if severely dehydrated), a little time off her feet, and then getting her out the door with orders to take it easy. The hospital I worked with, which was in a relatively small rural-suburban area and not busy by urban standards, would always work to clear space as quickly as possible. Anybody that didn't absolutely need medical care in that environment wasn't kept around long. Honestly, unless you need a scene taking place during the examination you could write the whole thing off in a single line of dialogue. I generally find when writing that if I'm getting too hung up on the technical details of a single point that's holding up the story, I need to write around it and move on.

Absolutely. I want to know what those details would be, but certainly all of them wouldn't wind up in the story. I'm a major devotee of the James M. Cain style of writing, "Keep it moving!", and I don't want to slow the story down. There is a short scene in which my heroine summarizes the events, and I can blend the examination/treatment with that:

*****
Then two of the doctors had me on an exam table, checking my blood pressure and sticking a thermometer under my tongue.

“I feel fine,” I kept telling them. The truth was, I didn’t. I felt both exhausted and wired, keyed up, as if I’d slammed two beers right after running a marathon. Thirsty and lightheaded, too.

As the male doctor, an Asian fellow, shone a light into my eyes and nodded over my blood pressure reading, the woman –- no taller than he was, with short red hair –- scribbled on a chart. “I’m Dr. Halpern. You allergic to anything?”

“No.”

“Okay, what happened?”

I told her, the first of countless times I’d tell the story, while the male doctor rolled an IV over to me and stuck a needle in my arm. He grinned at me and went out. “So I drove the bus down County Road Eighty-two,” I finished, “and as soon as I could call 911, I did, and we got here. The End. So could we call Sheriff Pacorini?”

Dr. Halpern looked astonished. “Wait. You drove down Eighty-Two? In the snow, at night -– in a school bus?”

“Kind of had to. Tough learning how to drive in snow, too.” I yawned and suppressed the urge to giggle. Whatever was dripping into my arm was making me feel less lightheaded, though.

“You didn’t know how to drive in snow?”

“Well, no. Is it required to drive in Colorado? You’ve got to have a snow endorsement on your license, or something? Listen --”

“Amazing,” Dr. Halpern murmured.

“Thanks. I guess. Listen, we need to call the Silverlake sheriff. And my boss, how is he?”

“Dr. Wu’s gone to call him and the county sheriff’s office too. We’ll have word on your boss in a few minutes, but I think once we get some insulin and fluids into him, he’ll be fine. You, now, we see a lot of this with hikers at this altitude. Dehydration, mostly. How long’s it been since you ate?”

So, once a nurse disconnected me from the IV and slapped a bandage on my arm, I capped off my first and last night in the town of Leadville with a roast beef sandwich on French, dressed, and a huge glass of milk in the Hobart Clinic lunchroom. Not a four-star meal, but right then it tasted like a six-course dinner by Emeril Lagasse.

Dr. Halpern swept in as I was plucking up the last crumbs of the bread to tell me Canaday was stable and would be fine. “As for you, Miss Mountain Bus Driver, all you need is a good night’s sleep. We’re releasing you with orders to take it easy.”
****

 

[MikeKardec]

I'd say that sounds pretty good. They do the blood pressure and temp just for the record anyway. As I said the IV might be (probably is) extraneous but some sort of technical hydration product is not. Coming up from NO she's be really breathing hard at those altitudes, heart hammering with any exertion more than walking on the flat. The difference between a normal stroll and additional load is significant. One week at that elevation really wouldn't help much except to unconsciously teach her to pace herself. You do start to create more red blood cells after 3 days or so but it isn't really noticeable and by the time it is you've been getting externalize in other ways so it's hard to tell. Driving a bus in falling snow isn't that much of a challenge (even if it's old with loose steering and bad brakes) because you have every reason to go slow, but pick a cliff sided mountain road with ICE and it's a whole other world ... scary as heck. I lost it in just a three foot skid on the road to Silverton one time ... not so bad but with a two or three hundred foot drop on one side and no guard rail. the second my tires got traction again I felt like I'd been raptured, or I wouldn't need to be. One or the other.

Keep at it!

 

[Benzadmiral]

I'd say that sounds pretty good. . . . One week at that elevation really wouldn't help much except to unconsciously teach her to pace herself. You do start to create more red blood cells after 3 days or so but it isn't really noticeable and by the time it is you've been getting externalize in other ways so it's hard to tell. . . .

Keep at it!

Thanks, Mike,

There's a scene set a day or so before this one, where she wakes up on a still warmish day, tries to go for a jog, and gives up very fast. "No wonder I hadn't seen a single person in Silverlake [my fictional town] working out." So she's been sort of forced to pace herself!

Oh, and on another site, I was advised that the taking of the vitals and the administration of the IV would probably be done by a nurse, not a second doctor. So I'm altering it to make "Dr. Wu" into "Nurse Wu."

 

[MikeKardec]

It is a Colorado thing that nearly everyone under 50, especially if they are on the "progressive" side of the political and personality scale (and plenty of others) exercises like MAD! Colorado mountain towns are bursting at the seams with Mountain Bikers, Snow Boarders, River Rafters, Hikers, Climbers, ext. It's outdoor lifestyle central. The more conservative aspects of the state are played out in people who are equally hard working, the Ranchers, few remaining Miners, Farmers etc. The people you see taking it easy or getting in trouble with the altitude are the Tourists. My friend who had the heart attack biking, rode over a 10K pass a couple of times a week. A neighbor (and not a full time CO resident) used to ride his bike on a 20 mile loop part on the highway part on mountain trails between 6 and 8k ... he was well into his 70s.

Not trying to start any sort of political discussion, just giving you info on Colorado lifestyles (if you don't already know) but, in the tourist towns the culture is often fairly far "left". I live and am very politically comfortable in LA and when I go to CO I feel like I've gone to another world. This move left has been going one since the 1970s but has been gaining momentum this century. It is a vital, significant aspect of these communities and it includes a bit of friction with the rest of the world. Again, no politics, just a hint that if you are interested and if it seems like it might have an impact on your characters, you might do further research because it's a very interesting part of current mountain state culture.

 

[belfastboy]

Anybody here in the medical field? I'm rewriting a story in which a young woman, healthy, age 23, is being examined at a hospital in the U.S. for minor exposure and exhaustion. A logical diagnosis, since she has just hiked across a mountain ridge at ~ 10K feet above sea level (an elevation she's not used to), then has driven a vehicle in darkness and light snow to the hospital. (She was rescuing her boss from diabetic coma, if it matters.) Now my plot doesn't require her to be admitted to the hospital; as long as the staff treats her, and thus runs up some charges, that's good enough.

An Ixquick search for "hospital treatment" "exhaustion" (and excluding "heat exhaustion") gives me lots of stories about people being treated for exhaustion, but no specifics. Naturally the doctors will take her vital signs and get some water into her. What else? Vitamin injection? Oxygen? Some real food, since she hasn't eaten in some 7-8 hours?

Any suggestions appreciated.

I would expect them to check her for frostbite and dehydration. If they diagnose dehydration they may hold her overnight on an IV drip to rehydrate her in a controlled condition.

 

[Benzadmiral]

It is a Colorado thing that nearly everyone under 50, especially if they are on the "progressive" side of the political and personality scale (and plenty of others) exercises like MAD! Colorado mountain towns are bursting at the seams with Mountain Bikers, Snow Boarders, River Rafters, Hikers, Climbers, ext. It's outdoor lifestyle central. The more conservative aspects of the state are played out in people who are equally hard working, the Ranchers, few remaining Miners, Farmers etc. The people you see taking it easy or getting in trouble with the altitude are the Tourists. My friend who had the heart attack biking, rode over a 10K pass a couple of times a week. A neighbor (and not a full time CO resident) used to ride his bike on a 20 mile loop part on the highway part on mountain trails between 6 and 8k ... he was well into his 70s.

Not trying to start any sort of political discussion, just giving you info on Colorado lifestyles (if you don't already know) but, in the tourist towns the culture is often fairly far "left". I live and am very politically comfortable in LA and when I go to CO I feel like I've gone to another world. This move left has been going one since the 1970s but has been gaining momentum this century. It is a vital, significant aspect of these communities and it includes a bit of friction with the rest of the world. Again, no politics, just a hint that if you are interested and if it seems like it might have an impact on your characters, you might do further research because it's a very interesting part of current mountain state culture.

Oh, I lived in Denver and Aurora for 4 years, 1997-2001; so yes, I experienced that slant quite a bit when I was there. As for exercise, you couldn't walk anywhere without seeing runners and walkers (I did both), or drive anyplace without having to deal with bicyclists. However, when I visited Leadville at 10K feet, it was April and pretty chilly but sunny -- and I didn't see anybody working out, certainly not with the intensity I saw at 5K and 6K feet.

 

[MikeKardec]

10k is pretty darn high. My internal barometer gives me a touch of the nausea/altitude sickness right at 10,200 just like clockwork.