What about us naturally curly girls?

[dmoran227]

Clabbergirl, have you tried fingerwaves as a setting method? I have mixed daughters( though every head is different between my girls one's hair thrives with protein products, the same products make the others dry and brittle, that one needs moisture and more moisture on top of that. So I am very familiar with your texture(also a cosmetology degree). Fingerwaves are still widely this way in salons that cater to older ladies with ethnic salons. I think a good set with wrapping lotion(if you're not using already you said setting lotion which I don't think they best choice for your hair) would give you the look you're going for. That being said I would continue to take suggestions and experiment with all the ones that sound good for you. I am always amazed at the HUGE disparity in skin and hair treatment, products, and routines among us. What makes one thrive could wreak havoc on another. My can't live without product could turn your hair into a bush. Fascinating. And they say hair is dead. Ppsstfuh! How could something with so much personality, so many moods, that needs so much attention not be alive?

I agree with deleteduser, I use the same type boar/plastic bristle brush. But it's a matter what works best for you. My older daughter who is now doing her own hair prefers a big plastic paddle brush. For styling they are similar the boars just distributes oils better. And satin wraps and pillowcases really help. I also agree with Crwitt, please discontinue the brushing "like crazy". Brushing is needed to relax and smooth your set but it must it must be done with care and in the correct direction.
Not sure if I've mentioned here before but I attended cosmetology in high school in the 80's. We had two instructors who were both in there sixties and had done hair their whole lives. They taught hardcore old school. When performing a "combout(brushing/combing/teasing)" on hair with a tight curl pattern we were shown a method using two hair brushes at the same time. It really makes a difference. I find it hard to explain but with the first brush stretching the hair you use the second brush to "mold" the wave.

 

[Clabbergirl]

Thank you, dmoran, for your suggestions! I have had some successful sets since I posted that awful photo, and in the process have learned some things about my own hair. If I had been born in an earlier time, I feel like I'd have known more about how to work with my hair, but growing up in the 80s...well, I could get BIG hair with little effort! Now that I want more subdued hair...it has been a challenge. I've learned that sponge rollers with end papers goes a long way in reducing frizz as well as adding a teeny tiny dab of Alberto V05 hairdressing to each section of hair just before I roll. Then I wrap in something silk or put one of those caps over and in the morning use a wide-toothed wooden comb to separate the curls and try to form into waves against my hand. If that doesn't work, I break out a plastic-bristle brush I have and do the same. I seem to get less frizz from a plastic bristle brush than from the boar/plastic. I want to use the boar because of oil distribution, so I haven't given up on it.

I've tried finger waves by watching videos on youtube and in books, but it's difficult for me and I hear it's one of the harder things to learn in beauty school? My grandmother could set her own finger waves while riding in a car down a highway with the windows down - so she said - but alas, she never did this to my hair even though she believed my hair would do it naturally. Combing through my hair when wet and encouraging the bends for a finger wave doesn't happen - it ends up flat on top and poof on the bottom. Is there a way to coax them into a retro look without trying (and failing) at real finger waves?

I've been using setting lotion because so many here do - if there's something else with hold that would work better, do tell! I'm open to trying anything. I haven't noticed any issues with using products with lots of protein, but I do know the curls like a drop of honey in anything I put in after shower, as well as shea butter and pure vegetable glycerin. These are for natural curl days. I'm afraid to try either of those when doing a set, however, because they encourage curl and that's not what I want when I've got my hair in pin curls - curls getting a mind of their own. The double hair-brush technique sounds fascinating too. Off to see if I can find a video for that.

So what do you recommend I use instead of setting lotion? And thank you again for the great info.

 

[cecil]

Keep practicing fingerwaves, clabbergirl. My hair is naturally VERY frizzy and curly but setting lotion + fingerwaves = fine. Pincurls are a bit harder to get a smooth result but it's not an overwhelming obstacle, women had frizzy-ass hair in the forties too!

Also there's always the option of blowdrying your hair straight and then setting it with curling tongs which is super easy and hard to screw up too badly.

My number one piece of advice for the frizzy haired among us (or anyone I suppose) is PRACTISE. Go slowly, don't try to take any short cuts, do it over and over again until it turns out. The beautiful hairdos you see around the forum didn't look that perfect the first time round, I guarantee it.

 

[Clabbergirl]

Curling tongs? Hmmm...will have to google that. Maybe you're referring to what we call duckbill clips here. I agree that practice has helped - but we all want that shiny s-wave right out of the set. The art of compromising!

 

[dmoran227]

Thank you, dmoran, for your suggestions! I have had some successful sets since I posted that awful photo, and in the process have learned some things about my own hair. If I had been born in an earlier time, I feel like I'd have known more about how to work with my hair, but growing up in the 80s...well, I could get BIG hair with little effort! Now that I want more subdued hair...it has been a challenge. I've learned that sponge rollers with end papers goes a long way in reducing frizz as well as adding a teeny tiny dab of Alberto V05 hairdressing to each section of hair just before I roll. Then I wrap in something silk or put one of those caps over and in the morning use a wide-toothed wooden comb to separate the curls and try to form into waves against my hand. If that doesn't work, I break out a plastic-bristle brush I have and do the same. I seem to get less frizz from a plastic bristle brush than from the boar/plastic. I want to use the boar because of oil distribution, so I haven't given up on it.

I've tried finger waves by watching videos on youtube and in books, but it's difficult for me and I hear it's one of the harder things to learn in beauty school? My grandmother could set her own finger waves while riding in a car down a highway with the windows down - so she said - but alas, she never did this to my hair even though she believed my hair would do it naturally. Combing through my hair when wet and encouraging the bends for a finger wave doesn't happen - it ends up flat on top and poof on the bottom. Is there a way to coax them into a retro look without trying (and failing) at real finger waves?

I've been using setting lotion because so many here do - if there's something else with hold that would work better, do tell! I'm open to trying anything. I haven't noticed any issues with using products with lots of protein, but I do know the curls like a drop of honey in anything I put in after shower, as well as shea butter and pure vegetable glycerin. These are for natural curl days. I'm afraid to try either of those when doing a set, however, because they encourage curl and that's not what I want when I've got my hair in pin curls - curls getting a mind of their own. The double hair-brush technique sounds fascinating too. Off to see if I can find a video for that.

So what do you recommend I use instead of setting lotion? And thank you again for the great info.

Greetings Clabbegirl, I'm happy you've had success and you're on point about when we were born affecting us as well as having to unlearn things. It's pretty much all around too. The industry pounded tried to pound us in the head on the horrors of oil with "oil free" "strips oil" when actually oil is probably the single most beneficial hair and skin product for the majority of us! I found the same thing when breastfeeding my kids( no one around me had breastfed so besides the lack of advice I got misinformed and sometimes rude comments( they can't be hungry it's only been two hours-breastmilk digests quicker than formula, too big to be breastfeeding-but your baby who's the same age is still drinking a bottle?, etc). Thank heavens there's seems to be a renewed interest in getting back to us being able to take care of ourselves. We should know how to feed our babies, sew our clothes(I don't practice what I preach here, hopefully when I have more time), cook from scratch, grow our own veggies, make our own soap and cold cream,do our own hair and teach our daughters all of these. Offtopic I know but that reminded me of this my mother had hair much like yours. She used to straighten it before setting on rollers. She blowdry and hot rollers if in a rush but most of the time she wrapped it put saran wrap then a scarf, then sat under a hooded dryer. Afterwords while her hair was still warm she set on rollers. Have you ever wrapped your hair? For some reason it seems to only be done in ethnic salons( in fact it was a jamaican friend of my mom who taught her) which is a shame because it's fantastically effective with all hair. Of course this is adding a step for you but depending on how often you shampoo maybe worth it. Which by the way is IMO why I believe nearly everyone had great hair back in the day. Twice a week was the most anyone shampooed. Nowadays all the blame on the rise of female hair loss and unhealthy hair and fading color is on sulphates, those ladies used them and used color. The difference is they used them much less frequently as well as much lower heat styling. I don't think the answer is simply using a milder detergent in shampoos and continuing on. Sorry there i go ranting again.
Anyway back to the wrapping. If you haven't tried and wish to try there are tons of you tube videos. Its a bit tricky at first but not complicated and once you get the hang of it you'll be done in a few minutes. What I was saying earlier is to use wrapping lotion instead of setting lotion for the finger waves. Really for all your wet sets including wrapping. It's basically setting lotion with moisturizing ingredients marketed for ethnic hair. Has the same type ingredients for hold, but with added moisturizers and a bit of protein. Setting lotion will give you the hold and is okay but it can be drying and when hair needs moisture it will pull it from the air if needed. If you give it the moisture with the set it in addition to looking better and shinier you don't run the risk of it pulling it from the air. You live in the south like I do, sure you know we have lots to pull. Why by the way and you may already know this is a danger of using pure glycerin. I forget how many times it's own weight it can hold in water but it's pretty high. So it can sometimes suck the water from your hair and skin. It should always be mixed with at least the same amount with water or my favorite aloe vera gel.I don't think you're in danger with moisture products and smooth sets I don't think they encourage a curl, they keep your hair in it's optimum state and that's a defined unfrizzy curl. Thank you so much for the honey idea I am going to try that out.
I agree with cecil keep working on those waves. You're already got the curl us straight girls are trying get you've just got to get it exactly where you want it. Use plenty of duck bills! Wrapping lotion is you're using as a set but if you want to wear the finger waves today in the salon gel is used. Not squeeze out gel, in a jar in the ethnic section. Ampro, prostyle, ecostyler. Much like the wrapping lotion, has hold but with added moisturizing properties as well. I stopped and thought about finger waves being difficult to learn and remembered this: After the "Theory" classes the very first thing we were allowed to do on our mannequins was finger waves. Teachers said you needed the dexterity and if you couldn't do them you really had no business doing hair. I liked them so I didn't have much of a problem. But there was a lot of girls who hated them and could see no reason why they even had to learn them. I heard rumours of many girls quitting or switching out of cosmetology to another vocational program because of fingerwaves. Can't say for sure as all the girls in my class mastered them enough to move on. If you're really commited I would invest in a mannequin.They are much harder to do on your own head Ones with short hair are super cheap on ebay as you can't learn many cuts but all you need is a few inches to work with in getting the finger placement, pressure and connections down.

I still have my old textbook will look through and see about the two brush combout and send that along with fingerwave info if you'd like.

PS I used to LOVE VO5! Nothing made my hair glisten like that. I'm glad you reminded me of that, will have to try and find some!

 

[Clabbergirl]

Thank you for all these tips! I'm going to check Sally beauty tomorrow on the way home from work to see what they have. I haven't tried hair wrapping but I will be checking out videos on it. I think I've been trying to create my own wrap stuff because I've gotten to using setting lotion or gel with a dab of moisturizing stuff (like Sebastian Potion 9 or aloe vera). If I use glycerin, I need to mix it with something else then? Usually I do - aloe vera or some kind of curl cream, but now I'm wondering if I should water it down a bit more.

And yes, feel free to send whatever you have on this kind of thing. I'm going to pick up some duckbill clips while at the beauty supply too and start practicing. Thanks!

 

[dmoran227]

Yup you've been doing it on your own for sure. Aloe vera for hair is awesome isn't it? I think as long as your ratio of glycerin/liquid is at least 50/50 you're good. But I do 33/67 glycerin/liguid for my girls.
Yeah I think in general you should be shopping in the ethnic section when you buy hair products. Focus is on hair strength, moisture, and health. Very general statement here and totally IMO but on the whole ethnic hair products are superior in every way. They got rid of sulphates eons ago, they were using silcone shine products back in the 80's before frizz ease.( Not that I advocate silicones) the aphogee two step treatment was created for ethic hair.They been selling satin sleep accesories for ages. Curly hair has it's issues already and then add to that the high number of those who relax..The focus had to be on hair health. Also I believe because the market and the company catering to it are smaller like with any business quality is higher. Have you tried KeraCare products? Not sure if Sally's has them but if you get a chance try them. You are sure to love them. Since you read Curl Talk sure you already know about the dangers of silcone, still have to watch out for them. I prefer the Isoplus wrapping lotion over the Motions which is most popular because of this. And it's cheaper. Also check out the StayonSatin ( the satin bonnets/pillowcase)products in purple bottles. They have a nightime setting lotion with a girl with her hair wrapped on the bottle. It is amazing for wrap. I will stop boring you to death and will look tonight for my textbook.

 

[cecil]

Oh curling tongs is a curling iron, sorry. But yes, duckbills are also your friend! Also I totally agree with dmoran227, my dry frizzy hair is colour treated and gets hammered with product and irons, but the reason why it's still in good condition and looks nice is because I only wash and style it once a week.

And wow, is there anything glycerin can't do? I use it on cuts, grazes, dry skin and to sweeten my tea, now you're telling me it's good for my hair too? *hugs bottle of glycerin*

 

[crwritt]

Here is my neice, Kate, about as naturally curly as you can get, sporting her usual "work" hairstyle of finger waves

 

[stardust]

My curls are usually much better when my hair is moisturised properly. Redken Allsoft heavy cream has been a blessing! I use this as a treatment once a week and after washing my hair every time I use Moroccan oil - my curls haven't looked better.

 

[Clabbergirl]

crwitt, thank you for posting this photo. I need to work on finger waves. I practiced some this weekend but was unhappy with the results. Not sure my face is cut out for them either. I like the 'puffier' waves like in Water for Elephants, but I don't know how to get regular, flatter ones, let alone those. Work in progress....I know...

 

[RitaHayworth]

Another curly here too.

I find a wet set pin curl makes my hair frizzy as well - I wash mine and set on velcro rollers, which I then either sleep in and take out in the morning or let them dry on the velcros and then pin curl.

 

[Clabbergirl]

How do you use velcro rollers without getting a big knotted mess? I haven't been able to use velcro rollers at all, let alone rolling around in sleep! I might as well take a fistful of tape and shove it in my hair as to use velcro rollers. They are a serious no-no for me. What's your technique?

 

[Mrs Krogsæter]

A few years ago I chemically straightened my hair and my curles was messy, flat and uncontrollable ever since. This summer i bought ,for the first time, hair products especially for recreating bounce, shaping curls and maintain curls. Now my hair has gotten my originally curly bounce back, and when I set them with curlers they shape wonderfully. I normally use a wet pin-curl set, or I use my rollers, but they turn out wonderfull nearly all the time. I also find that the curls keep for days. The longest they have kept was 4 days, and that even with washing in between. Ofcourse the 4th day it took more effort to style, but the set was stil there... and even if I brushed it out it will curl back in during 30 min or so.
So as Jemjefferson said: It's all about the cut and products.

Make sure when you set pin-curls that you do not twist the hair. It will make your naturally curly hair big and super frizzy. Happened to me the first few sets. I promise, it was not a pretty sight. And remember that the bigger the curlers or pinned curles are the softer the curl turnes out. Small curls on naturally curly hair tends to get grizzy (at least on me).

 

[FraeuleinBerlin]

Hi girls!

I was just wondering, when you style your hair and need to leave the top section flat - what you you do???

 

[crwritt]

Hi girls!

I was just wondering, when you style your hair and need to leave the top section flat - what you you do???

I would say that rather than putting rollers in that section, comb it smooth, start the rollers or pin curls lower.

 

[Marzena]

Hello, ladies, I am very new to this, but instantly recognised the topic .
I have an additional problem of hair which is, all at once, fine, easily damaged, and highly resistant to growth. Yet in addition it is also curly, although the curl is lost when I try to grow my hair (frizz and mess remain in place).Over the years I think I tried all approaches, and always ended up with messy, damaged, frizzy and shapeless style.
I am afraid I have finally given up. I wear short styles, boyish ones, not even hanging down towards shoulders, and just try to maintain that look of lots of tight, small curls. When well conditioned and kept short, it all looks OK, but is there any way my hair could be made into sth mildly vintagey?

 

[FraeuleinBerlin]

Czesc Marzena! Sounds to me like you need finger waves!

 

[Marzena]

Czesc! sounds to me you may be 100% right. I will definitely give it a try.

 

[vavavoom]

Re: Velcro Rollers

I have a mixture of 3a-3b curls, and the only thing I've found to work has been velcro rollers. They provide the tension during the drying process that brushes give during a blow-out without the frizz-causing heat. Foam rollers don't "hold" the strands in place, so while I can get curl-like shapes, the hair within the loose spiral can be crimped or wavy itself. Pincurls work... but they work too well. I've also had the issue of brushing, and brushing, and brushing to no avail. I would only use pincurls for my bangs (I have a Middy cut) if I wanted to achieve a bumper-esque bang. When I use pincurls, I can simply brush my center hair/bangs forward and under, and it will hold a bumper formation naturally without bobbypins.

Some things that I've found to be true for my hair (YMMV):

- if it won't form defined curls when air-drying naturally, it probably won't take well to any rolling set.
Before I started using a low-shampoo/curly routine my hair was frizz all the time. I use Kinky Curly shampoo & conditioner, and I leave a bit of the conditioner in after I shower to the ends. I use an old t-shirt to squeeze excess water off, and occasionally I do leave-in treatments to heal the damage hair-dye and occasional hairspray do. I used to blow-dry my hair everyday before accepting my curls, and it does take a lot of time and effort to fix the damage that constant heat does. When you can begin to see the curl pattern in your hair after it's air-dried naturally, instead of frizz and split ends, I think it'll take to velcro rollers better. (heck, it'll take any styling better once healthy!)

- it needs to be very, very wet when rolling-- especially the ends.
The smooth quality that velcro rollers gives me is due in part, I believe, to the amount of water I use while rolling. I've found that setting lotions (while they work!) aren't best for me as they dry out my hair too much to be worth the hold they give. (I would try doing roller/pin-curl/heat stick sets without products first, you might find it is the product itself causing frizz.) So instead I just continually spray water while rolling, making sure that my ends are all wet and gelling/holding together before I brush them through with the velcro bristles. The wetter my hair is the less likely of having fly-away frizzy short pieces get away.

- it needs to dry naturally not using heat!
I think that heat can cause my hair to scrunch up, and if you blow too hard the little fly-aways will jar loose and become frizz. However, it will take a long time. I have resigned myself to sleeping in rollers. When sleeping, to avoid having the pillow scuff up the smoothness of my rolls, I wrap a silk scarf around my whole head and tie under the bottom row of rollers on the nape of my neck. This will hold all the rollers firmly in place, and the silk will allow your head to move easily on the pillow. I know the temptation of using a blow-dryer, but don't do it! The time will be worth it when you un-roll smooth, non-frizzy, curls!

- use roller pins to hold the rollers in place and keep tension.
If you rely on only the roller itself to hold the curl, things will unravel and you won't see smooth curls. I use pins similar to these that I found in a Sally's. You want them to be long, straight, and kind of heavy duty. Pin the roller to the scalp. You shouldn't get bumps from this unless you're rolling too much hair onto the roller. To create even more tension and straighten (like near the front of the face) pin it in two places against the scalp, with a space in between, so the pins are clutching at different sections of hair beneath.

- velcro rollers that have metal cores are the best!
Having a hard shape that won't bend is very important especially when sleeping on rollers. I can't use anything against the back of my head that bends into ovals because it will make my curls misshapen. Also, having a hard interior makes the "brushing" when wet easier somehow; I think it holds tension better while rolling. Third, this might be fantasy on my part, but when I absolutely have to use a blow dryer to speed things up, I think the metal cores can act as hot rods.

The other benefit of using velcro rollers is you can get ALOT of volume by rolling them to the scalp. I always roll to scalp in order to keep the tension throughout the shaft and help straighten the roots. And if there wasn't enough water when rolling or I couldn't pull tight enough around my face and I have bumpy or fly-away sections near the hairline, I just go in with a mini-straightener and touch up. No problem.

Hope this helps.