We've all lost our minds

[LeeB]

Try this, during a hot summer day, if you're to be out in the sun all day, wear light cotton long pants and shirt (with a hat, of course). Not only will you avoid sunburn but you'll remain cooler. As your perspiration soaks into the cloth, keeping it close to your body longer and assisting any errant breeze in cooling you off. I guarentee you'll be better off than the person wearing shorts and a tank top.
Look at the beduin nomads from the Middle Eastern region. They spent their lives in blazing sun and what did they wear?

 

[deanglen]

Lee,

I assume you refer to a long sleeved shirt, right?

dean

 

[Pat_H]

Try this, during a hot summer day, if you're to be out in the sun all day, wear light cotton long pants and shirt (with a hat, of course). Not only will you avoid sunburn but you'll remain cooler. As your perspiration soaks into the cloth, keeping it close to your body longer and assisting any errant breeze in cooling you off. I guarentee you'll be better off than the person wearing shorts and a tank top.
Look at the beduin nomads from the Middle Eastern region. They spent their lives in blazing sun and what did they wear?

And they aren't the only examples. At least in this region, cowhands still wear long sleeve shirts and hats all summer long. I hardly ever go out with a short sleeve shirt myself, as I'm so accustomed to long sleeves in the sun for protection.

Photos of 19th Century cowhands and vacqueros show them always wearing long sleeve shirts, no matter the weather. And they were frequently wool. That strikes people as being hot, but for a variety of reasons, it either isn't, or it isn't to the extent its uncomfortable.

 

[LeeB]

We've lost our minds!

Yes, I am refering to a long sleeve shirt.

The one factor about wool that gets forgotten is that is is an insulating fabric. It holds in tempreture regardless of hot or cold. That is why, in the days before electric refridgeration, the men who delivered ice to homes would wrap the ice in wool blankets to transport the blocks from the truck to the house. The wool would reduce the amount lost to melting on those sweltering days.

 

[deanglen]

Lee,

Learning a lot from you! Great! Proud to share the same state with you.

dean

 

[LeeB]

Thanks!

A fellow Michigander!

Much to my wife's chagrin, I am an unabashed hostory nut. All periods. I tend to go off on a rant whenever there is something on TV or in a movie that portrays history incorrectly. But, in the big picture, I could have worse cumpunctions.

It also took her a while to get used to my hat wearing. I'm not sure if she likes it, but at least she tolerates it. Even bought me one or two for birthdays and such.

 

[Pat_H]

Yes, I am refering to a long sleeve shirt.

The one factor about wool that gets forgotten is that is is an insulating fabric. It holds in tempreture regardless of hot or cold. That is why, in the days before electric refridgeration, the men who delivered ice to homes would wrap the ice in wool blankets to transport the blocks from the truck to the house. The wool would reduce the amount lost to melting on those sweltering days.

I was once told, by an NPS employee who was wearing, one, that a light wool shirt was actually quite comfortable in hot weather. It was about 80 at the time, and he was wearing a light blue wool shirt of a late 19th Century military pattern. In his office as an NPS Ranger, he was dressed as a late 19th Century soldier. According to him, you'd basically sweat through it, and then the light breeze would wick away the heat.

I'm not sure if that really works that way, but the Army blue shirts were extremely popular with cowboys on the Northern Plains in the late 19th Century. The cowhands didn't like the soldiers, but they did like the shirts. The Army itself kept a wool shirt for all types of use until the 1930s. The soldier who went into Mexico in the Punitive Expedition were all dressed in wool.

 

[LeeB]

We've lost our minds!

The reason for the switch from wool military uniforms to cotton came about in the period between WW1 and WW2. The "Great War' was over and very few saw the warning signs pointing to WW2. The military budget was being slashed mercilessly. In order to reduce costs, the military replaced wool unifomrs with cotton. Wool is best at handling climatic variables, but it is not terribly resiliant to abrasion. Cotton, especially in the form of canvas, is the best material for resisting abrasion. Cotton is also less costly to produce and manufacture into clothing.

 

[Martinis at 8]

The reason for the switch from wool military uniforms to cotton came about in the period between WW1 and WW2. The "Great War' was over and very few saw the warning signs pointing to WW2. The military budget was being slashed mercilessly. In order to reduce costs, the military replaced wool unifomrs with cotton. Wool is best at handling climatic variables, but it is not terribly resiliant to abrasion. Cotton, especially in the form of canvas, is the best material for resisting abrasion. Cotton is also less costly to produce and manufacture into clothing.

I find wool to be brilliant as an outdoor garment.

What I really liked about it most was when I was in the Army if I got wet in cold weather I could still keep warm (I went to Ranger school in the winter time).

M8

 

[LeeB]

We've lost our minds!

I am definately a wool fan! I've got a dozen wool shirts, jac-shirts (greatest invention in clothing ... ever) and a couple coats. My wife once bought me a winter parka of the insulated, nylon shell variety that never got worn. I always go to my heavy wool mackninaw for the winter season. The nylon beast was given away, this past winter, in as new condition.

 

[deanglen]

I was once told, by an NPS employee who was wearing, one, that a light wool shirt was actually quite comfortable in hot weather. It was about 80 at the time, and he was wearing a light blue wool shirt of a late 19th Century military pattern. In his office as an NPS Ranger, he was dressed as a late 19th Century soldier. According to him, you'd basically sweat through it, and then the light breeze would wick away the heat.

I'm not sure if that really works that way, but the Army blue shirts were extremely popular with cowboys on the Northern Plains in the late 19th Century. The cowhands didn't like the soldiers, but they did like the shirts. The Army itself kept a wool shirt for all types of use until the 1930s. The soldier who went into Mexico in the Punitive Expedition were all dressed in wool.

I always think of wool making a person itch, in addition to keeping them kind of warm. the movie troopers always seem to be wearing long johns under their uniforms, even in the summer. Is that accurate?

dean

 

[Feraud]

Itching depends on the wool. There are different weights and finishes. I have felt wool military overcoats that feel like brillo pads where others are more refined.

 

[LeeB]

We've lost our minds!

The itchiness of wool depends on how its spun. The looser yarns used in most outdoor shirts and coats in coaser and has more insulative properties. Worsteds are finer and somewhat stronger the the first. Worsteds tend to be smoother to the touch and not itchy.

As for the "long johns" under the trooper uniforms. The equivalent of modern underwear came about in the Victoian era just before the turn of the century and after the Civil War. Upuntil that time, you either wore the full long johns or went "commando". Troopers normally wore them under their uniforms especially on manuevers because it was easier to loosen the outer garments (overshirts) when it was warm, and then button up when the temprature dropped. The alternative was a heavy overcoat that was issued to the troopers for winter gear. Many regions, most notably the Southwest, experience a large disparity in temp once the sun goes down. A high temp over 100 during the day could drop as low as 50 or 60 at night.

 

[Pat_H]

I always think of wool making a person itch, in addition to keeping them kind of warm. the movie troopers always seem to be wearing long johns under their uniforms, even in the summer. Is that accurate?

dean

Like Feraud notes, it varies considerably. I'm generally not bothered by wool. But in terms of military uniforms, it can vary greatly. It certainly varies by country as well. British style battledress, for example, of the type WWII various enormously depending upon the country of origin. Canadian battledress features fairly well refined wool, English much less so. Australian seems to be somewhere in between. American wool uniforms of WWII seem quite refined in wool quality in comparison to British battledress.

FWIW, there's lot of uniform discussion on the TMH forum, where I've previously linked in some campaign hat threads.

 

[deanglen]

The itchiness of wool depends on how its spun. The looser yarns used in most outdoor shirts and coats in coaser and has more insulative properties. Worsteds are finer and somewhat stronger the the first. Worsteds tend to be smoother to the touch and not itchy.

As for the "long johns" under the trooper uniforms. The equivalent of modern underwear came about in the Victoian era just before the turn of the century and after the Civil War. Upuntil that time, you either wore the full long johns or went "commando". Troopers normally wore them under their uniforms especially on manuevers because it was easier to loosen the outer garments (overshirts) when it was warm, and then button up when the temprature dropped. The alternative was a heavy overcoat that was issued to the troopers for winter gear. Many regions, most notably the Southwest, experience a large disparity in temp once the sun goes down. A high temp over 100 during the day could drop as low as 50 or 60 at night.

Man, I can't imagine that union suit underneath was easy to cool off with even with open neck and rolled up sleeves, fully aware they may have left the sleeves rolled down.

dean

 

[LeeB]

No, I can't imagine the level of comfort being very high. Than again. it's what they we're used to wearing. Also, that is why when the opportunity to bathe came around, the habit was to lounge in a tub of water for a long period of time. Often, the undergarment would simply be discarded and a new one put on after bathing. Of course, this would depend on where the person was. The chance bath in a watering hole while on patrol would not allow for this, but at least the trooper would be clean. The undergarment would be shaken out and cleansed as much as possible and put back on.

 

[deanglen]

FWIW, there's lot of uniform discussion on the TMH forum, where I've previously linked in some campaign hat threads.

thanks, Pat, I suspected I should look there (SMH). It's moments like this when I feel there should be some hybrid forum, something blending the historical apparel of history, military or civillian. H-m-m-m-m-m.

dean

 

[jamespowers]

Speak for yourself!
I started wearing them BECAUSE of the rain (as I dislike carrying an umbrella), and my transitiion to vintage hats hasn't chnged my habits.
Personally, I USE all of my "vintage" items, rather than leaving them on display. For myself, that's the whole point of having them.

Amen! If I can't wear a hat for what it was made for then it belongs in the ash can.
Umbrella!? What umbrella? They take a ducking.

Stetson and Disney had the Dupont treatment, Mallory had the cravanetted process, they were all weather treated and water proofed at the factory. Wear 'em in the rain. That's what the factory intended.

Regards to all,

J

 

[akaBruno]

GOD... I love how threads take on a life of their own.

Good stuff.

BRUNO