Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Westworld

MikeKardec

One Too Many
Messages
1,157
Location
Los Angeles
I'm finding this mesmerizing.

Obviously, it's a re-envisioning of the 1973 Michael Crichton movie ... which I had forgotten he directed. It's a theme park, a far more than "virtual" reality environment where you can go to live out your fantasies of "history" (it's much more a place of Western Myth than reality), rebellious violence or guilt free sex.

The park is staffed with robots who are amazingly lifelike, even to the point of having enough "consciousness" to allow them to care for their own needs to a limited extent, like seeking maintenance, react in a deeply lifelike way to park guests, process complex situations and ... well, that's where the story really begins.

Stealing a concept from Jurassic Park the series takes on the premise that "life will find a way," that sterile dinosaurs will breed and that semi conscious robots self programming capabilities will eventually make them conscious. It's fascinating and heart breaking to watch pain and suffering (basically electronic PTSD) cause some sort of humanity to flicker to life

We are the masters of the matrix, it's casual gods, but our inhumanity causes their humanity to evolve. Pain makes us human. Life makes pain. Lets hope that rather than a revenge against the humans story this turns into something that also suggests that experiencing pain also creates empathy. If you've never been hurt you can never care about others hurting.

There is also a secret hidden deep in the structure of the park, something not yet revealed that only some of the robots and one of the guests ... and theoretically a few members of the staff are aware of. There are agendas within agendas; staff members experimenting with robots in ways that could be kind or supremely dangerous, a board that seems to want something other than the creator and a creator who has his own special way of controlling everything. There's a mysterious second creator, a dead man who seems to still haunt the park in an unknown way. And there is no hint of what the outside world is like except that there are still corporations and biotech and traditional families. But the technology in the park is extraordinary and it's 30 years old.

The performances are excellent, but cable TV has managed excellence pretty consistently for the last 10 years. HBO has nurtured Evan Rachel Wood since she was very young, as they have few other actors, and I have a feeling that they are going to blow the doors off with her character.

It's the commentary on entertainment, especially that the audience makes up its own story (or should be allowed to) that is very interesting. There is a great conflict in the film business over whether you should spoon feed simple stories to audiences or allow them complex worlds that they only partially understand ... and let their imaginations fill in the rest. That's a conflict within the structure of making this show as well as one in the story we are being told. How much can remain mysterious?

JJ Abrams is involved. He has always been either bad at explanations or very good at the mystery thing and second guessed by the powers that be; forced into simpler explanations than he would like to present. Think of the fascinating parallel worlds aspect of the last season of Lost vs the stupid, they were dead all the time and meet in a church to go on to heaven or whatever, ending. You have to wonder if the network didn't insist on that crud so they wouldn't get "you cheated because I didn't understand it" mail from fans. Personally, I think that a lot of that mail just shows how deeply involved people are and that, regardless of what they say, they are not unhappy with mysterious and intelligent entertainment when they can get it. I've had a fair amount of experience with fans "complaining" about elements they obviously loved ... it's just their way of expressing themselves.

We'll see what happens this time ...
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
25,081
Location
London, UK
Love the original film. Was it ever a Crichton novel before it was a film, or did it go straight-to-screen? I don't do subscription TV, though (unlss you count Netflix), so it's going to be a while before I see this. I'd like to, though. It sounds like they've sought to give it a bit more depth (similar themes to Blade Runner, it seems), which is a good idea, if it is to sustain a series or several.
 

Worf

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,207
Location
Troy, New York, USA
Ed it's a limited series currently airing on HBO. I don't how many episodes in total but it's not meant to go beyond one season I believe. The premise is fascinating if a bit slow. Puddin' called it "Groundhog Day with pistols". It's more than that though, like MK I find the question of sentience to be fascinating. STNG did a wonderful episode with Data that covered the question pretty well. When does a thinking machine, cease to be a machine and cross the line into a living, self aware creature? In addition to this question is the human capacity for senseless violence. This is made even more gruesome as these "machines" are so lifelike. You're not pumping lead into a drone or rumba, you're shooting something that looks like, talks like, acts like and bleeds just like you.... troubling.

Worf
 

Doctor Strange

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,252
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Worf, it's NOT a limited series. HBO has sunk a huge amount of money into it, and - especially after canceling their last prestige hour drama (Vinyl) when it met with a meh response - they hope it will be the big series to carry on when Game of Thrones ends in two years. Of course, they still have time to come up with another couple of "big" shows.

Edward, it was an original film - Crichton's first screenplay, and of course he directed too.

Interesting piece I just saw on how Michael Crichton found Hollywood very much like Westworld.:

http://www.vulture.com/2016/10/westworld-michael-crichton-memoir.html

Mike K, how did HBO "nurture" Evan Rachel Wood? I've been following her career since Once and Again, and she's only been briefly involved in a couple of HBO shows that I can recall.

As I've said on the other TV threads, I'm enjoying Westworld so far, and Wood's beautifully nuanced performance in particular. To get back to Worf's point, it does SEEM like it's a limited series, because while there are a bunch of ongoing plots and mysteries, you wouldn't think they could milk the androids-become-sentient-and-what-is-"real"-anyway? angle for too long.
 

scotrace

Head Bartender
Staff member
Messages
14,392
Location
Small Town Ohio, USA
I've just finished the first four and find it very addicting. So many layers and much to think about.
Those who are self aware and sentient take it for granted and go about raping and butchering those who only look and feel the same as them. Those who are trapped in the world made for the pleasure of visitors want that kind of free will -- would they value it more than their creators? It's a Genesis story. Just do what you're supposed to do in this world created for you, but don't try to figure it out or you'll be cursed with all the things that come with self awareness.

There are ongoing possibles after this season. Other worlds. Demon World, War World, Dragon World, etc.
 

Worf

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,207
Location
Troy, New York, USA
Worf, it's NOT a limited series. HBO has sunk a huge amount of money into it, and - especially after canceling their last prestige hour drama (Vinyl) when it met with a meh response - they hope it will be the big series to carry on when Game of Thrones ends in two years. Of course, they still have time to come up with another couple of "big" shows.

Thanks Doc, I stand corrected. Got your tix for the premiere?

Worf
 

MikeKardec

One Too Many
Messages
1,157
Location
Los Angeles
When does a thinking machine, cease to be a machine and cross the line into a living, self aware creature? In addition to this question is the human capacity for senseless violence. This is made even more gruesome as these "machines" are so lifelike. You're not pumping lead into a drone or rumba, you're shooting something that looks like, talks like, acts like and bleeds just like you.... troubling.

It makes me wonder about what the outside world could be like. Today, though we play violent video games and watch violent films we also have a younger generation who is (at least pretending to be) gentler than we were. They complain about being triggered by all sorts of stuff that is par for the course in my book. I'm not a fan of ugly entertainment unless there is a reason but I'm thinking and hoping one exists here ... like I said consciousness seems to be growing in the robots as they vaguely remember the trauma of their past lives, like lightning striking the primordial soup. If that's the case, it can be as violent as it wants. But if taken as a fictional REALITY the sort of "fun" Westworld presents if it were an actual place would cause trauma and, in fact some of the characters have already commented that they have critical memories of it. I'm very interested in the outside world and hope the writers take up the challenge of going there and doing something interesting with it.

Mike K, how did HBO "nurture" Evan Rachel Wood? I've been following her career since Once and Again, and she's only been briefly involved in a couple of HBO shows that I can recall.

Okay, maybe not ... but she's under 30 and, while she has a serious resume for someone so young, she's done 4 HBO series. While not the star of Mildred Peirce they'd have been obligated to pay her the same rate or better to have her in True Blood and Doll and Em in considerably lesser parts, parts where they could have probably saved some money. My thought was that they wanted to keep her around and happy with them while waiting for something great to come up. HBO is the superbowl of filmed entertainment, a better gig (great pay and nearly always excellent writing, directing and co-stars) even than most features. The competition from up and comers and top dogs is fierce. I assume that when you see someone come back over and over that something is up ... ie. the powers that be really like that person or no one else will hire them but in this case I'm guessing that is really far from the truth!

"Groundhog Day with pistols".

Hysterical! I like a slow burn, however. And I'm the kind of guy who will reread my favorite novels a dozen times savoring every nuance.

 

emigran

Practically Family
Messages
719
Location
USA NEW JERSEY
I LOVE it... and thanks to you all for imparting you personal wisdom on the series... Luckily I can review it "ON DEMAND" so I can catch all of the rapid fire nuance depicted...Interesting to see if it has ongoing seasons....

"The Night Of"...ought to have had...
 

MikeKardec

One Too Many
Messages
1,157
Location
Los Angeles
I am beginning to wonder if there isn't some information about this story lurking in the original movie ... that this is a sequel rather than a re-envisioning!

The time line of the park; 30 plus years old (this could be 30 years after the future date of the park in the 1973 film). The fact that the "old" robots are supposedly more elegant, complex, and durable and display heavy mechanical underpinnings (similar to the '73 film). In searching the lowest levels of the headquarters, an area now unused that the park is fully up and running, Bernard (head programmer) passes an old robot parked deep in the shadows and left out of focus ... a robot who, even so, remarkably resembles Yul Brenner's "Gunfighter!"

The big question is if the "Arnold" mysterious is a character in the original film.
 

Inkstainedwretch

One Too Many
Messages
1,037
Location
United States
I wonder if they're playing some game with the names. The boss, played by Anthony Hopkins, is named Robert Ford. The historical Robert Ford murdered Jesse James. There are hints that Ford did away with his former partner and co-creator of the park. The two techs in the basement are named Felix and Sylvester - both cartoon cats. Felix keeps trying to resurrect Tweety Bird. There's a Maeve and a Hector, names from Irish and Greek myth, respectively. Wht this could mean I have no idea, except for the western/Bob Ford connection.
 

rocketeer

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,605
Location
England
I know I am rather prejudiced to the original film( One of the great scifi films of that era and still stands up today) i think it works better as a film/movie than a series.
Scotrace says lots of layers to think about. I think too much to think about so not watching anymore. Shame really, I am not a scifi enthusiast but some films really get me and the original was one of those.
 

MikeKardec

One Too Many
Messages
1,157
Location
Los Angeles
I wonder if they're playing some game with the names. The boss, played by Anthony Hopkins, is named Robert Ford. The historical Robert Ford murdered Jesse James. There are hints that Ford did away with his former partner and co-creator of the park. The two techs in the basement are named Felix and Sylvester - both cartoon cats. Felix keeps trying to resurrect Tweety Bird. There's a Maeve and a Hector, names from Irish and Greek myth, respectively. Wht this could mean I have no idea, except for the western/Bob Ford connection.

Okay. You got me laughing. I'm guessing it all probably means nothing, except that writers are always desperate to figure out names and sometimes will pounce on anything that works without realizing the meaning. On the other hand, given the genre, you may be right about Robert Ford having some connection. On the other other hand their troublesome and arrogant writer is named Sizemore, the name of a troubled, though talented actor. There might be a few clues in the names of characters from the original script ... names that we never learn because they don't appear in dialog.

If memory serves the original movie may be one of the first times we were informed of the negative effects of a computer virus. Creighton was always great at that sort of stuff.
 

Feraud

Bartender
Messages
17,190
Location
Hardlucksville, NY
We're enjoying the show a lot. The writing is smart. There are a lot of layers to the dialogue and production design. I read a second season is confirmed. After this week's episode I am very curious to see what comes next.
 

Inkstainedwretch

One Too Many
Messages
1,037
Location
United States
Another name: Delos Entertainment, the mother corporation of the park. In the ancient world, the Greek island of Delos was the biggest slave market in the world. Slave traders and raiders brought their wares to Delos for sale. This Delos deals in a different kind of slaves.
 

Worf

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,207
Location
Troy, New York, USA
Yes... this week's episode was indeed pretty amazing. I pride myself on seeing through poor plots... you know guessing the villain a half hour into the movie or revealing the "twist" while it's still in the can. Even I didn't see this coming until it was way too late.

Worf
 

Feraud

Bartender
Messages
17,190
Location
Hardlucksville, NY
Agreed Worf! The show highlights great writing and superior acting from guys like Wright and Hopkins!! SPOILER ALERT AHEAD!!


Consider Anthony Hopkins' attitude when Bernard was being fired compared to when they were in the basement. The acting from these two men was phenomenal!
 

Worf

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,207
Location
Troy, New York, USA
Agreed Worf! The show highlights great writing and superior acting from guys like Wright and Hopkins!! SPOILER ALERT AHEAD!!


Consider Anthony Hopkins' attitude when Bernard was being fired compared to when they were in the basement. The acting from these two men was phenomenal!

Pretty outstanding... I've always felt Wright was/is an underrated actor. Boy has Hopkins' face weathered.... I remember when he was a "youngish" thing in "Remains of the day". Wow... talk about 10 miles of HARD road.

Worf
 

Forum statistics

Threads
109,288
Messages
3,077,955
Members
54,238
Latest member
LeonardasDream
Top