Western Leather Jacket

[frussell]

Fanch, you're killing me. Having grown up in Texas, my inner Texan wants to make a snide comment about Okies not being able to read maps, or the jacket not going over in OK because the buckle was too complicated, but I'm much more mature now. I always enjoyed the TX/OK rivalry, and the UT vs Oklahoma game was always a highlight of my college years. All in good fun, still have many friends and family in both fine states. Frank

 

[Fanch]

Fanch, you're killing me. Having grown up in Texas, my inner Texan wants to make a snide comment about Okies not being able to read maps, or the jacket not going over in OK because the buckle was too complicated, but I'm much more mature now. I always enjoyed the TX/OK rivalry, and the UT vs Oklahoma game was always a highlight of my college years. All in good fun, still have many friends and family in both fine states. Frank

Yep Frank, our UK brethren have no idea what we are talking about. My aunt used to tell me that the only thing between the TX/OK panhandles and the North Pole was a barbed wire fence.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

[video=youtube;ZbrnXl2gO_k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbrnXl2gO_k[/video]

 

[majormajor]

Now THAT jacket needs to be shortened up to the first button or so. Major - from my biased point of view only, a "western, or cowboy" jacket should be something that evolved from cowboy function more than Hollywood style. Something an old-time cowboy (or modern day one) would wear to work in. I've seen lots of your denim jackets you've posted on real westerners, both past and present, and owned some hand-me-down versions myself when I was young. Today's "western" fashion seems to stem more from Nashville style than actual horseman practicality. I'm sure others would disagree. My taste comes from the way I was brought up, and the old school cowboys I've been surrounded by my whole life. Maybe my confusion comes from the use of "cowboy" and "western" interchangeably these days. For me, they are two separate things. Having said all that, if the jacket you posted was longer, without a buckle, and in my size, I'd be all over it, as I do think it's a neat look. Frank

OK Frank. So I get the thing about "western" and "cowboy" - although it was you who brought that connotation up. And I get the Texas/Oklahoma thing too - I have been to that neck of the woods a few times.

But you still haven't answered my question - what DOES a "Western" jacket need??

 

[gtdean48]

This is a bit of friendly banter between Texas and Oklahoma. IXL has pointed out before that if one looks at a US map, Texas and Oklahoma appear as one massive state separated by the Red River. The Texas panhandle appears on the map to be a western extension of Oklahoma.

Thought Texas was just Baja Oklahoma?????

 

[Fanch]

Thought Texas was just Baja Oklahoma?????

 

[frussell]

Major - I can see you're not going to quit shaking this particular bone. What does a Western jacket need? Someone to wear it, I guess. Didn't mean to stir you up. It's like I said from the start, purely my own personal taste and opinion. If I had to pin it down, I'd be looking more for a cowboy's jacket than "western," (which could include the Nudie/Nashville style). It would need to be made of tough material, denim, leather, canvas, heavy wool, or something that would be hard to tear. Buttons would be better than zippers, although I do have a few "western" vests that have zippers and snaps. Big enough collar to turn up against the cold, and a few pockets for tobacco, medicine, ammo, as well as handwarmer pockets if possible. I'm not against yokes on a jacket, have a few myself. Just don't prefer them. I've had short denim and canvas jackets that I rode in, and many longer chore/barn/field coats that have seen lots of saddle time. Where I live these days, I can usually get by most of the year with a good wool railroad vest. When/if my Aero Teamster finally comes, I'll probably ride in it, if it's cold enough. I don't need my jacket to tell people I'm "western," the hat, boots, hand-tooled belt and occasional spurs usually get the point across. If I have trodden on your area of expertise, I apologize. Certainly meant no harm. I actually like most of the vintage denim stuff you post, and only wish it came in huge sizes like I wear. Cheers, Frank.

 

[simonc]

In reference to length, why are biker jackets and cowboy jackets short? Because when you sit on your ride the jacket then sits at your waist and not under your ass. Understand the function and then dig the style I say.

 

[majormajor]

Major - I can see you're not going to quit shaking this particular bone. What does a Western jacket need? Someone to wear it, I guess. Didn't mean to stir you up. It's like I said from the start, purely my own personal taste and opinion. If I had to pin it down, I'd be looking more for a cowboy's jacket than "western," (which could include the Nudie/Nashville style). It would need to be made of tough material, denim, leather, canvas, heavy wool, or something that would be hard to tear. Buttons would be better than zippers, although I do have a few "western" vests that have zippers and snaps. Big enough collar to turn up against the cold, and a few pockets for tobacco, medicine, ammo, as well as handwarmer pockets if possible. I'm not against yokes on a jacket, have a few myself. Just don't prefer them. I've had short denim and canvas jackets that I rode in, and many longer chore/barn/field coats that have seen lots of saddle time. Where I live these days, I can usually get by most of the year with a good wool railroad vest. When/if my Aero Teamster finally comes, I'll probably ride in it, if it's cold enough. I don't need my jacket to tell people I'm "western," the hat, boots, hand-tooled belt and occasional spurs usually get the point across. If I have trodden on your area of expertise, I apologize. Certainly meant no harm. I actually like most of the vintage denim stuff you post, and only wish it came in huge sizes like I wear. Cheers, Frank.

Hi Frank

Kudos to you for the riding. I'm very envious. But with regard to the term "western", I think you are confusing function with a style.

Below are a handful of my "western" shirts. Why are they called "western"? Well, they all have the vee'd seams across the chest, they all have patch/flapped pockets, and they all have snaps, usually in multiples on the cuff. Now I guess some of those things might have some sort of "western" function, but I doubt it. All it is, and all it has ever claimed to be, is a STYLE.

Levi Strauss even have "Western Wear", along with a picture of a cowboy, on the label. If it's good enough for them, it's OK with me.

In a similar vein, here's a shot of a few pairs of my Lee jeans:

Originally called "Union-Alls" - inferring Union-made Overalls; then called "Cowboy" - with obvious connotations; and finally called "Riders" - which widened the connotation a fair bit. So did only manual workers, cowboys and riders wear them? Fortunately not. The rest of us managed to overcome the picture of the Cowboy on the label, and wear 'em for whatever!

So, whilst I respect the view of a seasoned rider such as your good self, Frank, for me; vee'd chest seams and smiley pockets DOES say "western"

 

[simonc]

Here here

 

[gtdean48]

There is the Hollywood "western" fashion of Roy Rogers in the 50's & then there is the True West fashion shown in movies like Steve McQueen's Tom Horn & Sam Elliot/Val Kilmer/Kurt Russell in Tombstone. Look at Powers Booth's rig = bib front shirt, etc. Buckaroo style.
The pearl snap, denim shirts is more Hollywood/Roy Rogers influence, brought back by Urban Cowboy. Just like most hat styles like Tom Mix & Hopalong Cassidy's were all film creations that became iconic but far from realistic.
The horse show scene does a lot to set western fashion trends. Go to any cutting, reining, roping, cowhorse, quarter horse, paint horse, etc. & you'll also see fashion for the show pen, not for the ranch or range. Those garments show up in Shepler's, ML Leddy's & other western shops.

 

[Fanch]

There is the Hollywood "western" fashion of Roy Rogers in the 50's & then there is the True West fashion shown in movies like Steve McQueen's Tom Horn & Sam Elliot/Val Kilmer/Kurt Russell in Tombstone. Look at Powers Booth's rig = bib front shirt, etc. Buckaroo style.
The pearl snap, denim shirts is more Hollywood/Roy Rogers influence, brought back by Urban Cowboy. Just like most hat styles like Tom Mix & Hopalong Cassidy's were all film creations that became iconic but far from realistic.
The horse show scene does a lot to set western fashion trends. Go to any cutting, reining, roping, cowhorse, quarter horse, paint horse, etc. & you'll also see fashion for the show pen, not for the ranch or range. Those garments show up in Shepler's, ML Leddy's & other western shops.

ML Leddy's in the Fort Worth Historic Stockyard is the bees knees of iconic western wear, but don't enter their premises withe out a lot of cash or credit card with a very high limit of credit.

 

[gtdean48]

ML Leddy's in the Fort Worth Historic Stockyard is the bees knees of iconic western wear, but don't enter their premises withe out a lot of cash or credit card with a very high limit of credit.

I've just browsed & only entertained items on the clearance racks....

 

[Fanch]

I've just browsed & only entertained items on the clearance racks....

Even goods in their clearance racks are expensive! :eeek: It is incredibly fun to browse and try on their western boots in all sizes, even my 13AA feet. As I recall, ML Leddy also selsl leather western jackets too. Though I'd mention that since leather western jackets is the topic of this thread.

 

[frussell]

Major - congratulations on your shirt collection. Very nice. I can offer a little personal input on those snap-button shirts, which myself and many others who ride wear as well. Lots of things done horseback need to be done with one hand, for obvious reasons. Snaps are easy to do up and undo with one hand, while buttons are not as easy, and zippers most usually take both hands to feed correctly. I wouldn't want them on my jacket, as they tend to wear out quicker than buttons or zips, but on shirts, they are A-ok. As far as labels go, if it says cowboy, it must be true, just like if it says "horse" it couldn't be steer, except when it is. Sorry, I don't do the cute smiley faces. Enjoy your western wear, as I said before, I think just about everything you've posted is pretty sharp looking. Almost forgot. As in most things, I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Dean. He walks the walk. Frank

 

[Fanch]

Major - congratulations on your shirt collection. Very nice. I can offer a little personal input on those snap-button shirts, which myself and many others who ride wear as well. Lots of things done horseback need to be done with one hand, for obvious reasons. Snaps are easy to do up and undo with one hand, while buttons are not as easy, and zippers most usually take both hands to feed correctly. I wouldn't want them on my jacket, as they tend to wear out quicker than buttons or zips, but on shirts, they are A-ok. As far as labels go, if it says cowboy, it must be true, just like if it says "horse" it couldn't be steer, except when it is. Sorry, I don't do the cute smiley faces. Enjoy your western wear, as I said before, I think just about everything you've posted is pretty sharp looking. Almost forgot. As in most things, I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Dean. He walks the walk. Frank

The snap-button shirts shown by Major would definitely relate to western shirts. To me, the topic of what represents western wear is very broad, and maybe everyone is correct with what has been said. As far as what is worn on horseback, it would certainly depend on the season, what one is doing and where. All of my horseback experience has been recreational while on vacations, and I am sure Frank has forgotten more on the subject than I will ever know. I do not recall ever sitting on a jacket while in the saddle though, which brings me to the next subject:

Frank, I am curious as to what back length you requested on your Teamster and your choice of lining? I also have a Teamster that is about to be made, and I have stewed over body length and lining for far too long; I finally decided to go with a 28" to 28 1/2" back and moleskin body lining with cotton drill sleeve lining. I am almost 6'2" but suspect that you are a foot bigger than I in all directions. My reason for the slightly shorter back length is so I can maneuver around in a chair or in my car without actually sitting on the jacket. Most times I doubt that more than the two middle buttons would be buttoned. Anyhow, I thought that I would ask what you specified on your order and why. I probably have a tendency to over analyze things. I'll post pictures and impressions as soon as my Teamster arrives and hope that you will do likewise.

 

[ButteMT61]

Go to a freakin' tack shop in Casper Wyoming or Montana. You'll find what western wear is.
I'm not getting into the fire, but I know what I grew up with and what "I" think it is, so to each their own interpretation.

 

[IXL]

[video=youtube;ZbrnXl2gO_k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbrnXl2gO_k[/video]

There was choir practice? Nobody told me!!

 

[majormajor]

Major - congratulations on your shirt collection. Very nice. I can offer a little personal input on those snap-button shirts, which myself and many others who ride wear as well. Lots of things done horseback need to be done with one hand, for obvious reasons. Snaps are easy to do up and undo with one hand, while buttons are not as easy, and zippers most usually take both hands to feed correctly. I wouldn't want them on my jacket, as they tend to wear out quicker than buttons or zips, but on shirts, they are A-ok. As far as labels go, if it says cowboy, it must be true, just like if it says "horse" it couldn't be steer, except when it is. Sorry, I don't do the cute smiley faces. Enjoy your western wear, as I said before, I think just about everything you've posted is pretty sharp looking. Almost forgot. As in most things, I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Dean. He walks the walk. Frank

Hey Frank.

You take your shirt off whilst riding a horse?

Sounds pretty cool to me!

 

[frussell]

It wouldn't if you've seen me with my shirt off. The cuffs have snaps too, as do the pockets, more to my point. It's been fun. Gotta go tear the yokes off all my western wear now. Frank.