We're more immature than ever!

[Matt Deckard]

Never said marriage was a milestone for maturity... I said how marriages tend to work out in todays society looks like a good gauge on society and how we treat things that were once looked at as commitments.

Yes I am single and haven't a wife...

My marriage history and if or if not I have children... Maybe there I sometimes steer clear of the wife for myself subject... not for this thread or forum. There is some past history of mine I never talk about!

Perhaps I am extremely immature.

I am better known as Matt Deckard: incurable bachelor and aspiring gentleman on the prowl in the city of Los Angeles.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

And Nathan Marsak and I are professional dilettantes.

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[Marc Chevalier]

Do you have children yet, Marc? No?

None that I know of, James. Lots of practicing, though.

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[jamespowers]

None that I know of, James. Lots of practicing, though.

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Sounds like the phrase I use to get out of jury service up here.

 

[jamespowers]

Never said marriage was a milestone for maturity... I said how marriages tend to work out in todays society looks like a good gauge on society and how we treat things that were once looked at as commitments.

Yes I am single and haven't a wife...

My marriage history and if or if not I have children... Maybe there I sometimes steer clear of the wife for myself subject... not for this thread or forum. There is some past history of mine I never talk about!

Perhaps I am extremely immature.

I am better known as Matt Deckard: incurable bachelor and aspiring gentleman on the prowl in the city of Los Angeles.

One thing I have learned, Matt, is that you do not get married unless you are ready to do so. You have to be able to go in 100% and say there is no out. If you can do that then you just might be ready. The 50% divorce rate is deplorable but that is what happens when you run head long into something you have no business being in. Therefore, sometimes, not being married is mature.
Children are another story---there is no out no matter what kind of legal wrangling you think you can do. There used to be an old phrase that dealt with children in a round about way. Drink orange juice. Not before or after---instead.

Regards,

J

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Hmm, a strange article. lambasting immaturity, yet saying that to get on one must be immature. Looks more like a critique of the society that enforces immaturity (must be flxible to switch your job when it gets "outsourced" etc.) than the immature themselves.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Lurrnin' bad:

“But formal education requires a child-like stance of receptivity to new learning, and cognitive flexibility."

"When formal education continues into the early twenties," he continued, "it probably, to an extent, counteracts the attainment of psychological maturity, which would otherwise occur at about this age.”

bk

 

[jamespowers]

Lurrnin' bad:

Actually that explains a lot about the Literatti. lol

Regards,

J

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Great, great discussion...

It comes down to this; entertainment and leisure time!

In the not too distant past most people's time was occupied with work - some sort of physical chore that required effort and sacrifice so as to maintain or build a lifestyle. As physical work has become more simplified or replaced by machines and computers, humans have freed up time for leisure and entertainment. Coupled with a certain lose of self-esteem and self-worth because of a deep-seated sense of worthlessness, a person fails to 'mature' emotionally. Add to that a certain sense of entitlement brought on by union driven wages and pension plans, a person then fails to make the connection between work, value, and self-worth. There comes a false sense of accomplishment and hubris regarding one's importance.

There a number of factors involved, not the least of which is the government sponsored education system where an individual receives the barest minimum of education with vertually no direct cost. A High School graduate leaves school with a "know-it-all" attitude not even realizing how little he knows. The schooling didn't cost him anything, he put in little or no effort, he graduated with pomp and circumstance and with a false sense that he is entitled to .... "something".

All of this, along with free time to practice "eye-hand coordination" with video games and viewing countless media that glorifies violence, sloth, and impudence, a person is less prone to do the things necessary to achieve the very thing that brings emotional maturity; the process of SELF-ACTUALIZATION!

Now, don't imagine that I'm not a victim of all this myself, because I'm of that age where playing, pretending, and having fun is still a big part of my life. I was fortunate enough to have a father that was born in the 'olden days' from whom I could guage and compare a century of human progress. His attitudes about work and liesure were very, very different from my own generation's.

Well, enough pontificatin'! I've still got some maturing to do. It's back to work for me!! Keep up the dialogue - this is good! -dixon cannon

 

[jamespowers]

It comes down to this; entertainment and leisure time!

In the not too distant past most people's time was occupied with work - some sort of physical chore that required effort and sacrifice so as to maintain or build a lifestyle. As physical work has become more simplified or replaced by machines and computers, humans have freed up time for leisure and entertainment. Coupled with a certain lose of self-esteem and self-worth because of a deep-seated sense of worthlessness, a person fails to 'mature' emotionally. Add to that a certain sense of entitlement brought on by union driven wages and pension plans, a person then fails to make the connection between work, value, and self-worth. There comes a false sense of accomplishment and hubris regarding one's importance.

There a number of factors involved, not the least of which is the government sponsored education system where an individual receives the barest minimum of education with vertually no direct cost. A High School graduate leaves school with a "know-it-all" attitude not even realizing how little he knows. The schooling didn't cost him anything, he put in little or no effort, he graduated with pomp and circumstance and with a false sense that he is entitled to .... "something".

All of this, along with free time to practice "eye-hand coordination" with video games and viewing countless media that glorifies violence, sloth, and impudence, a person is less prone to do the things necessary to achieve the very thing that brings emotional maturity; the process of SELF-ACTUALIZATION!

Now, don't imagine that I'm not a victim of all this myself, because I'm of that age where playing, pretending, and having fun is still a big part of my life. I was fortunate enough to have a father that was born in the 'olden days' from whom I could guage and compare a century of human progress. His attitudes about work and liesure were very, very different from my own generation's.

Well, enough pontificatin'! I've still got some maturing to do. It's back to work for me!! Keep up the dialogue - this is good! -dixon cannon

You summed up quite a bit there but I think there were other times when people's times was not necessarily occupied with work---all of the time. The library at Alexandria comes to mind. Imagine a society in which there was enough people with enough time to build a museum. Not a museum like those of today though. That museum was meant to be used purely to muse about things in a quiet relaxing environment. The concept is an old one but not realized by many societies---even today.
I suppose things were a lot more simple then. There was probably a time in history where a single person could learn everything there was to know at the time. Think Erasmus. Now that much knowl.edge base would take you hundreds of years and byt then the Alzheimers would take it away anyway.
I think maturity has more to do with the mind than it has to do with learning and everything else. They used to say that a person was "settled" when he/she reached maturity. I think that imparted more of a state in which you think before you leap and definitely think before you say something off the cuff. Today's "keeping it real' does not qualify. Maturity is also present in those that are responsible for themselves. They can live without financial help and they have planned their lives out to be as they want them to be. To them life is a series of stepping stones to advance through. That gave rise to "putting the cart before the horse" when you did something out of order in life.
Well, back to the old grind. :cheers1:

Regards,

J

 

[dr greg]

quote for quote's sake

This is possibly not germane to the discussion, but I like it anyway
The young dream of transcending their circumstances, of shaming the mediocrities around them, of saving lives or being martyrs. Life seems cheap when you have so much future before you. Perhaps you cannot fully imagine, as older people can, being extinguished, simply coming to nothing.
Barbara Tuchman's Distant Mirror, a fascinating look at the 14thC mentions the wilful immaturity of leaders of the time, perhaps due to the fact that life expectancy was very low, and some kings were barely teenagers..acting accordingly, it is addressed in some depth in regard to attitudes toward children as well...but would take too much space to summarise...recommended reading.

 

[jamespowers]

This is possibly not germane to the discussion, but I like it anyway
The young dream of transcending their circumstances, of shaming the mediocrities around them, of saving lives or being martyrs. Life seems cheap when you have so much future before you. Perhaps you cannot fully imagine, as older people can, being extinguished, simply coming to nothing.

Apropos enough. Maybe it is that the young have this immortality complex and they think they have all the time in the world to succeed or accomplish what they want to do. Eventually they realize it is later than they think.

Regards,

J

 

[Fred G.]

Speaking for America and similar countries:

Pop once told me, "The day I went to work at 17 years old, I was better off financially than my dad"... meaning that he had nobody to fall back on. If he got in over his head, could he call Gramps and bum some $ off of him to make it through payday? No. Gramps was no bum himself, just a poor farmer.

Now, Dad is expected to fund Junior until he's twenty-something, out of college, maybe grad school, or ?

Once in awhile I interview young people looking for jobs, sometimes 20-21 years old. On the job application will occasionally be a blank-- from high school graduation to the present. "What have you done for the last 2-3 years, since high school?" I ask. Typical answer: "Ya know, nothing, just bummed around".

I would not say it's this high learnin' that's causing the immaturity factor to go up...

My experience has been, you'd better be flexible, ready, able, willing to learn more, different ways of doing things, be creative, think out of the box, etc. if you are going to remain a valuable contributor to whatever effort you're involved in.