was tipping at restaurants common in the old days?

[green papaya]

I always hear people talk about being very generous tippers at restaurants these days? what was it like back in the 1920's - 1940's ? when many people didnt have a lot of extra cash to throw away and leave a nice tip? I was never a big tipper, but I usually leave the minimum, because it feels like your just throwing your money away, I hear some people get carried away and leave a $10 - $20 tip on a $10 meal, I guess if you like throwing your money away.

seems everybody wants a tip these days and leave a tip jar out, it's almost like a form of panhandling.

 

[Dragon Soldier]

Depends, did servers get paid a living wage in that era?

 

[HudsonHawk]

Tipping a server originated in Europe and became widespread in the US following the Civil War. Folks felt that it made them appear more worldly, but many people did not embrace the practice. In fact, there was a very organized movement against tipping, as it was seen as aristocratic and the very definition of un-democratic and therefore un-American. There were many laws passed outlawing the practice, but it continued anyway, and gained steam throughout the 1920s and 30s, and soon was common practice. So it depends on how you define "old days".

 

[LizzieMaine]

John D. Rockefeller was legendary for handing out ten-cent tips. Many waitresses who served him considered him a pompous, skinflint jackass, and "rockefellering it" became popular slang for stiffing the staff.

 

[Haversack]

In Preston Sturges's 1942 film, The Palm Beach Story, a thinly veiled Rockefeller named John D. Hackensacker, (played by Rudy Vallee), states "Tipping is un-American." And who was described by the Pullman Porter, (played by Charles Moore), "Nawsir. She say he takin' her down to his boat, yassuh. I suppose she mean a yachet, but I don't see where no gentleman who come up wid ten cents from New York to Jacksonville get off to have a yachet ... more like a bicycle ... or a canoe ... yassuh."

What I've noticed over the years regarding tipping in the US is the increase in the percentage of what is considered a reasonable tip for good service. I can remember when 10% was considered adequate and if you look at guide books from the 1950s 10% was considered generous.

 

[Stanley Doble]

From the 20s thru the 50s a dime was the usual tip in the "blue plate special" class of restaurants. No doubt, fancier places got bigger tips.

My favorite tipping story was told by Tom McCahill, who was a close friend of bandleader Paul Whiteman for many years. When Whiteman was playing private parties he was often offered tips, which he always refused. Until one evening in the twenties he was playing a party at an estate on Long Island. The host came up to him at the end of the evening and said "I want to thank you and the band for giving us such a good time" and handed him an envelope. Whiteman happened to peek inside, and saw a $1000 bill.

He immediately revised his anti tipping policy. In the next 30 years he received several $1000 gratuities, a couple of $5000 and one $10,000.

He continued to return tips of under $1000. A man must have his standards.

 

[Stanley Doble]

The standard was always 15% of the bill. This was considered a fairly generous tip for good service. I understand today, more is expected, 20% and up.

They never added a tip to the bill. This was always up to the patron. Some were very generous, some were not, just like today.

 

[ChiTownScion]

I know that, in my family, the men were usually the better tippers. Most of the women would leave at the minimum 15%, but the men usually were good for 20%. My grandfather had the opinion that there was nothing in the world worse than a cheapskate- unless, of course, it was a union busting scab.

I had a grand aunt, however, who'd figure tips at 15% to the penny, and would argue about Who Ate What for a quarter of an hour after the meal when divvying up the bill. She, of course, had more money than the rest of the family combined.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I know how hard these people work. I tip very generously.

 

[Foxer55]

Here in the DC area many businesses have started adding the gratuity to the bill. In fact, Arlington County, a Virginia suburb of DC, passed a local law making 15% gratuities part of the bill.

In my case, I always tip 20% or more of the bill. Reason: I met the love of my life waiting tables and she worked in a decent restaurant. But I learned that not only patrons stiffed her, the restaurant screwed her out of much of the tips and the poor girl struggled just to get by. After learning this, I began tipping more.

 

[gaseousclay]

I always hear people talk about being very generous tippers at restaurants these days? what was it like back in the 1920's - 1940's ? when many people didnt have a lot of extra cash to throw away and leave a nice tip? I was never a big tipper, but I usually leave the minimum, because it feels like your just throwing your money away, I hear some people get carried away and leave a $10 - $20 tip on a $10 meal, I guess if you like throwing your money away.

seems everybody wants a tip these days and leave a tip jar out, it's almost like a form of panhandling.

Why is tipping 'throwing your money away'? Servers work difficult jobs that often pay crappy wages. If you're gonna pinch your pennies and complain about tipping then eat at McDonalds. The only way I wouldn't leave a tip is if my server was rude or did very little to actually serve me. This hasn't happened yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lolly_loisides]

When I'm in the US, I always tip, when I'm home (in Australia) I generally never do. The Australian minimum wage is $18.70 an hour, in CA it's something like $9 an hour.
To be honest I'd rather not tip at all & make employers pay their workers a decent living wage rather than have the general public supplement unfair wages by way of tipping.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

John D. Rockefeller was legendary for handing out ten-cent tips. Many waitresses who served him considered him a pompous, skinflint jackass, and "rockefellering it" became popular slang for stiffing the staff.

John D's ten cent tip was a bit more generous than that of the late British comedian Tommy Cooper who was known to be a real a-hole offstage. He would hand cab drivers and waiters a tea bag telling them to "have a drink on me." :eusa_doh:

 

[HudsonHawk]

When I'm in the US, I always tip, when I'm home (in Australia) I generally never do. The Australian minimum wage is $18.70 an hour, in CA it's something like $9 an hour.
To be honest I'd rather not tip at all & make employers pay their workers a decent living wage rather than have the general public supplement unfair wages by way of tipping.

In most states, the minimum wage for waitstaff is far below the minimum wage for other employees. In my state, for example, it's $2.13/ hour. Up from the $2.01/hour it was when I waited tables 30 years ago.

And with no tipping the public would still subsidize the employee's wages, it would just be through a higher cost of the product.

 

[lolly_loisides]

In most states, the minimum wage for waitstaff is far below the minimum wage for other employees. In my state, for example, it's $2.13/ hour. Up from the $2.01/hour it was when I waited tables 30 years ago.

Wow, that's disgusting.
I decided to double check the Australian wage rates for workers in the restaurant industry & looked up The Award. A server receives $18.64p/h in addition to penalty rates of an extra 25% on Saturday, 50% Sundays & 150% on public holidays.

We do pay higher costs for dining out and I have no problem with that. Wages should be set at a fair level. Servers shouldn't have to rely on the vagaries of the public & what they decide to tip a wait person.

 

[Edward]

Tipping is cultural. These days, it seems to be the US leads the way, particularly in supporting the practice. When I first went to China in 2006, it simply wasn't done; now in more touristy areas, including hotels, it is expected, a direct result of the increased tourist numbers from the US exporting their own cultural practice. In Japan, it was illegal for a long, long time, as it was considered an insult to the workers (who presumably were thought to be paid well enough already), though I don't know if that has changed. In Iceland I believe it is still considered insulting to tip. The Germanic approach (common in both Germany and Austria, and I believe parts of Switzerland also) is to round up to the nearest Euro, whether that be one or ninety-nine cents, or anywhere in between. Each server will maintain their own cashflow all night, and at the end of the shift anything in their moneybelt over what is owed to the restaurant at menu prices is the server's own to keep. Many do well on this, particularly in cafe-bar type scenarios with a high turnover of patrons. In Singapore, one is only expected to tip very few people, bellhops being the only one I can recall.

When in the US - or anywhere else for that matter - I play along with local tipping culture (I am a strong believer that when travelling it is important to respect local cultural practices in general), though personally I have never cared for a system where tips are expected as a norm rather than as a discretionary practice. I do find that as I get older I am much more likely to tip and tip better than I might have when younger for good service. I'm careful how I tip, though; a few years ago, a scandal broke in London when it emerged that a number of restaurants, especially chains, require staff to give up all tips to the management and then use that money to subsidise their wage bill. I make it a habit never to tip by card, but always cash to try and ensure that my server is the one who benefits. I've got no problem, of course, with them choosing to pool tips, particularly so that kitchen staff also benefit. It very definitely puts me off a place, however, if I discover they are effectively cheating the staff (and, by extension, me) by taking the tips for the business itself. In recent years, tip jars have also started to appear in carry-out food outlets; I refuse to tip for service in those, however!

What is becoming more common in the UK is for a service charge to be added to the bill. It would typically not be expected that one tip where this is done. As a legal matter, if a service charge is mentioned on the menu, then one is legally obliged to pay it; if there is no service charge mentioned until the bill arrives, one can legally refuse to pay (thogh typically most people either don't realise this or are too embarassed to object). I'm happy to comply in lieu of a tip, though I still prefer to leave the service charge in cash.

In most states, the minimum wage for waitstaff is far below the minimum wage for other employees. In my state, for example, it's $2.13/ hour. Up from the $2.01/hour it was when I waited tables 30 years ago.

Jinkies, that's low. Here in the UK, the minimum wage varies with age (From 1 October 2014: 21+ £6.50/hr; 18-21 £5.13/hr; 16-17 £3.79/hr; Apprentices £2.73/hr), but not profession (though that said, a huge number of minimum wage jobs are now subject to zero-hours contracts, so in reality rather than it being a living wage, many of these folks will still be on income support benefits). Presumably in the US the reason for the minimum wage being so much lower in certain occupations is because of thed assumption that there will be tips given, on which employees will pay no tax? I've heard of places where waiting staff even end up being taxed on tips assumed to be paid, so they're doubly stiffed by non-tippers - is that actually the case?

And with no tipping the public would still subsidize the employee's wages, it would just be through a higher cost of the product.

That at least I would find honest. I'd much rather pay 15% more for my food and tip as discretionary, than be railroaded into paying more by stealth.

 

[dh66]

I've heard of places where waiting staff even end up being taxed on tips assumed to be paid, so they're doubly stiffed by non-tippers - is that actually the case?

Yes, that is the case.

 

[filfoster]

I am appalled at the stories that circulate locally about how poorly sports professionals, entertaining at our local places, tip. An entitlement mentality? Certainly seems to show a narcissistic disregard for 'the little people'.

 

[Stanley Doble]

I know that when times were hard, as in the depression, many people would skip dessert or order a cheaper meal, to be able to leave a dime for the waitress.

 

[HudsonHawk]

In Singapore, one is only expected to tip very few people, bellhops being the only one I can recall.

In Singapore, as in most Asian cities I've visited, the tip in a restaurant is automatically added in the form of that 10% "service charge". I also tipped my driver in Singapore, as it was expected.

Presumably in the US the reason for the minimum wage being so much lower in certain occupations is because of thed assumption that there will be tips given, on which employees will pay no tax? I've heard of places where waiting staff even end up being taxed on tips assumed to be paid, so they're doubly stiffed by non-tippers - is that actually the case?

Yes, in the US, you are required to pay taxes on tips, just as you are on any income. When I was a waiter, there were places where you had to claim your tips, and others where the restaurant simply witheld a certain percentage with the expectation you were getting tipped, whether you actually received any money or not. So theoretically, one could have to *pay* to work there, though I don't recall that ever actually being the case.

But it does bring up another point about peoples' philosophy on tipping. If you poll folks about how much they tip, most will say they tip 15% minimum and more if service is good. But reality is far different. If a waiter averages 10%, he's doing pretty good. For many people, they feel your service is worth a certain amount, say $2.00. So if they have a $10 meal, they'll leave a $2 tip. If they and their date eat a $50 meal, they'll leave $2. If they and five of their friends ring up a $600 bill over the course of four hours, they leave...yep...$2, which is why a tip is often automatically included for larger parties.

That at least I would find honest. I'd much rather pay 15% more for my food and tip as discretionary, than be railroaded into paying more by stealth.

As for building the tip into the price of the meal and simply paying the waiter more, I'm fine with that in theory. I'm paying the same price either way. But it's worth noting that in places (at least in the US) where the tip is included or where the waitstaff make more money, the service suffers. In California, for example (particularly San Francisco), service in a restaurant is generally awful. There is no incentive for the waiter to be on the ball or provide any real service. Which is why the practice continues in the US. While the idea of tipping may seem aristocratic, the "everyone gets paid the same regardless of how well you do your job" attitude doesn't exactly fit the American idea of a meritocracy either.