Wartime road signs in Tennessee?

[p51]

I'm slowly desinging and will soon be building a model train layout (O scale narrow gauge) that takes place in TN in 1943.
One of things that has stumped me is what wartime road signs looked like in Tennessee. I have the license plates figured out, but I want to make scale authentic speed limit and direction/distance signs. Does anyone have a good reference for this by any chance?

 

[rjb1]

I was born in TN (and am still here, glad to say), but it was somewhat after 1943. I'll see if I can find some photos or other historical information from that time which might be of use.
However, even though it's not literally a road sign, one thing for sure that you need for a TN train layout is a "See Rock City" barn. You could not drive any distance in this part of the country without seeing one or more of those. Just google "See Rock City Barns" and there will be several pictures of those. (By coincidence, one of my former students is part of the family that owned Rock City originally.)
DESCRIPTION:
Since 1935, they have stood as genuine highway Americana, their bold white-on-black signs compelling both snowbirds and Sunday drivers to a spot near Chattanooga, Tennessee, where they could “See Rock City”.

But the Rock City barns that once dotted the map from the Great Lakes to the Gulf of Mexico are disappearing, bowing to time’s decay or being replaced by other marketing mediums.

In 2005, Rock City marked the 70th anniversary since the barns first appeared as advertising icons, fewer than 100 remain out of a rural network that once numbered near 900. Clark Byers painted the barns for three decades and became a legend in his own right by braving bulls, slippery roofs and lightning bolts. When he retired in 1969, he had painted some 900 barns in 19 states. He died in 2004. His successor, Jerry Cannon, has handled the brushwork on the barns Rock City still maintains.

Today, spotting one of these ever-recognizable structures not only gives tourists a look at a historic landmark, but takes them on a nostalgic jaunt back to a time when motorists drove blacktop lanes in search of family fun.

Depression-weary Americans were just rekindling their love affair with the automobile when a marketing brainstorm by Garnet Carter turned some country barns into billboards that spread the word on Rock City’s come-hither charms.

 

[rjb1]

I just thought of something additional that would be very appropriate for a 1943 TN train layout, especially for a WWII reenactor. We had multi-division-size Army training maneuvers here during the war (1941-1944) because the terrain is so similar to Western Europe. (When I was a kid, I asked my dad, who fought in the ETO, what it looked like over there, he said,"Just like here..." Slightly disappointing, since I expected a more exotic description of "over there".)
As a part of the maneuvers, soldiers, Army convoys, and field exercises were *everywhere* in this region (eastern half of Middle Tennessee). In total over 850,000 soldiers were involved. Having a troop train or a freight train hauling an armored division would be a perfectly accurate addition to the layout. Just google "Tennessee maneuvers" and you will get a lot of photos and information about them. (No family whose roots are here doesn't have some maneuver-stories or photos of same in the family album.)
As I write, other things are coming to me. There are three different topographical regions to the State, so if maneuvers are included, the topography of the train layout should be that of Middle Tennessee, not East or West (all totally different).

 

[p51]

I know all about the wargames, but they were much further West than where I'm modeling (the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina RR, running from Johnson City TN, to Cranberry, NC). The airborne forces for that wargame DID fly right over the area at the time, though. My folks lived in the area and were kids at the time the layout will take place (it's a fictional branch of that RR, will be set in the area they grew up in). There'll be a minor Army presence from a RR operating unit helping run the trains for prep to run other trains overseas.
As for the "See Rock City" signs, yeah, I need to paint that on a barn at the least (assuming they didn't paint them over for air raid worries). I remember seeing them as a kid as we went to the tri-cities area at least once a year growing up. I still love the area and wish I could get back there more often, haven't been in several years as I live in WA state now. Click here to see more on my layout concept if anyone cares to read it...

 

[rjb1]

I knew you were "way out there" now, but didn't know you were from "here", originally. That being the case, you know exactly what I was getting at, topographically-speaking. You're modeling the upper-East corner of the State, and well into the Appalachian region, not the Middle-Tennessee hills where I live and where the maneuvers were held.
On the cars, don't forget to make the license plates the shape of the State. There used to be some sort of local joke about living in the only State that was shaped like a license plate, back when that was the case.
(Come on back when you can! It's still a great place to live or visit.)
Concerning the Tennessee maneuvers, you might want to get a copy of the book, "In the Company of Soldiers", by Woody McMillan. It's the definitive story of the maneuvers. In addition to describing the maneuvers on a strategic level, it has a number of stories about the "adventures" of the individual soldiers, including sneaking away to get home-cooked food from the local people (including my grandparents).

 

[Espee]

There's a southern-style barbecue joint in Bellflower CA with SEE ROCK CITY on an exterior wall. I don't recall the mileage...

 

[p51]

As for the Rock City sign, this looks like a good representation and if I can’t find a photo from pre-1946, I’ll probably use this one (a barn near Louisville) as the typefaces were for sure in use during the 30s and 40s:
http://www.roadfood.com/insider/photos/8574.jpg
As for the road signs, I found a site that shows highway signs, but where I'm modeling, it was just a county road through there. I just hope I'll be able to find some shots eventually.
The vehicle license plates were easy to find. I found two 1943 ones (actually, 42 plates with a small 43 corner added, really common that year for many states) and swapped out several numbers within them to make numerous photo-quality scale plates. I'll be printing them onto photo paper. I now only need to figure out how to make scale ration stickers, which will be uber tiny at that scale...

 

[LizzieMaine]

And don't forget the Federal Motor Vehicle Use Tax stamp, which was even smaller than the ration sticker -- it had to be displayed on the windshield of every motor vehicle between 1941 and 1947.

It was usually displayed on the lower right hand corner of the windshield, or the corner opposite the ration sticker.

 

[rjb1]

If you can reproduce that tax stamp at model-train scales you need to quit what you are doing now and get into counterfeiting. You could make a fortune (literally).
Here is another site (actually the official Rock City site) which has a number of Rock City Barn pictures.

http://seerockcity.com/pages/Rock-City-Barns/

Be sure to check out image 6 of the ones on that site. The sign painter ran out of room and only has, "SEE ROCK CITY GARDE" (no "NS") on the side of the barn
For what it's worth, I remember the red ones with black roofs and white lettering the most. Maybe it's just because they are more vivid, but I do remember those more so than the plain black and white ones.

Concerning authentic road signs, we have a Traffic Engineering Dept. here, and the person who runs that may have some records of traffic sign standards from way-back-when, or he may have connections at the State Highway Dept. who have such. It doesn't cost anything to ask, so I'll check with him about that.

Since you said that you plan to have a military presence in the layout, I'll send you a photo I have of a 1940 Ford in military use at Camp Forrest, TN that has a special secondary military plate above the regular license plate (dated 1942). The secondary plate is dated 1943, but it isn't just a small date-change tab. It's rectangular and almost as big as the main plate itself.
(Whether they had those for every base or installation, I don't know, but this one does exist.)
.

 

[p51]

And don't forget the Federal Motor Vehicle Use Tax stamp, which was even smaller than the ration sticker -- it had to be displayed on the windshield of every motor vehicle between 1941 and 1947.

It was usually displayed on the lower right hand corner of the windshield, or the corner opposite the ration sticker.

Yeah, in 1/48 scale, that'd be about 0.03 inches wide. No way you'd be able to make anything that tiny, but you are right it'd be on a civilian car. The ration sticker alone is gonna be uber tiny but it is a detail many people know about. Thankfully there were next to no civilian cars running around that area during the war, so I'll only be having a handful of them (I have a nice scale Ford 32 coupe that I'm currently making look correct).

 

[MPicciotto]

You might check out the Oak Ridge Historical Society. Being as that city was created during the war they have gone out of there way to capture images from then. In fact one of the historical society members took a lot of the photographs you now see of wartime "Secret City".

I model in 1/87th and am drawing up plans for a Free-mo module to take to shows of PRR Pier No. 1 in Baltimore harbor circa 1943. I haven't gone beyond the thinking stage since the pier alone in HO scale would be about 9ft before I even do approach tracks.

Matt

 

[Phineas Lamour]

I live on the Cumberland plateau. I am actually going to Knoxville today. There are pictures all around Crossville and Cookeville of how the area looked over the years. I will start looking for street signs. If I see any I will take pictures for you. There is a model of Cookeville from 1955 with an interesting stop sign. We also have some handmade wooden street name signs on some of the streets on the outskirts of Crossville if you are interested.

 

[DeaconKC]

Don't forget some Burma Shave signs!

 

[p51]

Don't forget some Burma Shave signs!

There weren't any Byurma shave signs in the area during WW2. I've confirmed that with both my parents and other family who lived in the area at the time. The area I'm modeling is a very rural place, up in the hills of of the Northeast corner of the state (Stoney Creek, outside of Elizabethton, for anyone who might know the area).
In real life there was a logging railroad that was abandoned by the 20s or early 30s, my concept is that this line was never abandoned and instead was a much more active line. Then it was bought out by the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina RR (A real RR, known to locals at the "Tweetsie") and after the 1940 flood that really washed a lot of tracks out of the area, it lay dormant until WW2 when the Army put a RR operating unit in there to rebuild the line and partially use it for training (pun inteneded). There will be a minor military presence but mostly it'll be a representation of the ET&WNC without actually modeling the real line itself. Click here to see more if you're interested.

 

[p51]

Does anyone know if they only had the license plates on the backs of vehicles in the 40s? I know they have front and back plates now, but what about during WW2?

 

[rjb1]

Definitely front and back during WWII - from photos, not from memory - I'm not THAT old. (Actually, we (TN) don't have front plates now.)

 

[LizzieMaine]

It depends on the state and the year. Some states issued only one plate during the war years -- other states issued no plates at all, and used a metal tab or a windshield sticker to re-validate plates carried over from 1942. Still others recycled old plates -- rolling them flat and restamping them with new numbers.

 

[Peacoat]

I know all about the wargames, but they were much further West than where I'm modeling (the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina RR, running from Johnson City TN, to Cranberry, NC). The airborne forces for that wargame DID fly right over the area at the time, though. My folks lived in the area and were kids at the time the layout will take place (it's a fictional branch of that RR, will be set in the area they grew up in). There'll be a minor Army presence from a RR operating unit helping run the trains for prep to run other trains overseas.
As for the "See Rock City" signs, yeah, I need to paint that on a barn at the least (assuming they didn't paint them over for air raid worries). I remember seeing them as a kid as we went to the tri-cities area at least once a year growing up. I still love the area and wish I could get back there more often, haven't been in several years as I live in WA state now. Click here to see more on my layout concept if anyone cares to read it...

This is cool. I especially like the photo of the old diner car. I would be willing to bet that our own Dinerman (Bartender) has either eaten there or contemplated eating there.

 

[p51]

This is cool. I especially like the photo of the old diner car. I would be willing to bet that our own Dinerman (Bartender) has either eaten there or contemplated eating there.

Only if he's well past his 60s. The place had been out of business for quite a while when I saw it that only time in 1982 (thankfully my parents would go looking for these spots for me, I'm so glad they did as many of them are gone forever now). Two of the RR's coaches became diners, and both were gone by the 1990s.
Saddest of all, the remnants of the RR through my parent's hometown were removed recently when the tracks got pulled up last year. Now the area has no rail service at all.
I'm not a religious man at all, but the quote, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do," sure comes to mind... Click here for the news story