WANTED: A REAL car... meaning a vintage car ;)

[jtcarrey]

I need a new car soon, right now I drive a 1991 Infiniti G20, I've only had it for a year and already it's falling apart, it needs about $5K of work, so of course, I'd rather ditch the car and get a REAL car, so if anyone out there is looking to sell a 30's or 40's car, contact me!! I'll even go for an EARLY 50's car... heck, I'll let you have my car, come on, ya know you want it hahahaha lol

 

[Spellflower]

Just remember the "Car Talk" guys' safety rule for driving vintage automobiles: Don't drive a car on a road that didn't exist when the car was built. That shouldn't be too hard in L.A., right?

 

[Graemsay]

The Morgan Motor company builds vintage cars with more modern mechanicals. They even built a concept with a fuel cell...

http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/

There's quite a long waiting list for new cars, but they should be available secondhand.

Being a vaguely modern car, I'd expect them to be more usable than a 30s car on a day to day basis, and will probably have better crash protection.

 

[jtcarrey]

interesting, I bet they cost a pretty penny too, but yea, I still want the real thing haha nice concept though!

 

[Stan]

Hi,

Sounds like you want to drive this on a daily basis.

Not that I want to be a wet blanket, but......

Have you any experience as a mechanic?

No, I'm serious about that. The older you go with cars, the more of a mechanic you'll need to be. There are lots of things that go wrong with vintage cars that require mechanical work alongside the road on a daily basis.

Presuming you want the real thing:

If you stick with 1950 and newer, it's not so bad. If you get back to pre-war, then you're going to get into things that just plain don't happen any more. Cars were designed with this idea that anyone that actually bought one would be their own mechanic. Really.

I used to commute 50 miles a day in a 1933 Ford, and I needed to carry half my garage in the trunk to be sure that I could make it each day. It was a restoration, but it was an accurate one, so no modern parts were used. Oh, there were repro parts for sure, but the danged things were made exactly the same way as the originals-flaws and all!

One thing to be very aware of is that most things older than 1965 had drum brakes. They glaze up readily, and then they don't do much in the way of stopping you. They slow you down, but stopping sometimes is an adventure. With modern traffic, I find I have to sand the drums and brake shoes every few months to keep them working well.

Then, they have single-cylinder master brake cylinders. Pop one wheel hose, seal or line - and guess what? No brakes at all! Oh, there's an 'emergency brake' pedal. Let me know how well that stops you. The last time I went thru this was in a 1965 Ford Mustang convertible and I had to write off the entire right side of the car on a guardrail to get it slowed down enough for that 'emergency brake' to work as a brake! This is why the name changed to 'parking brake' in the 1970's! :eusa_doh:

Oh, and keep in mind that power assisted brakes and steering was an option until around 1970. Enjoy the workout you'll get in a parking lot. All my pre-1970 cars were fun in this respect.

If we go back before 1960, then they had vacuum wipers. These are cute. They stop -dead- going uphill. They go like hell on the downhills, though, so it all evens out. Oh, and they wipe such that half the windshield isn't wiped at all. Oh, and washers were also optional. I've used many a Windex(tm) bottle hanging out the driver's window when stopped at a traffic light.

As we go further in the 'way back' machine, we run into six volt electrical systems. You good at roll starting a car? Because if everything is not at 100% with the battery, cables and starter - it won't start. Either you park on a hill and roll it, or you break out the tools and clean the electrical connections, seemingly every other week. Oh, and don't think you're *ever* going to see the road with 6v headlights. Most modern cars have brighter marker lights.

Get back before 1950 and kiss automatic transmissions goodbye. Oh, and the 1950's two-speed autos are horrible on gas mileage, so you'll really want a manual anyway. Three speeds, and on the column. It's hard to work at first, but becomes easier after the first week or so.

I once had a 49 Plymouth that had an interesting tranny. It was a semi-auto. You used the clutch for first gear, and then forgot about it for second and third. You still needed it for downshifts, though. I gave up on it and just used the clutch all the time.

I did have a 32 Buick at one point that had a 'Lady's Clutch' in it. Honest. That's what Buick called it. It had this vacuum unit that pulled the clutch pedal down when you pressed this nifty little rubber bulb to the left of the clutch pedal. Worked slowly, but it did work. Presumably, the ladies of 1932 knew how to speed match the non synchro 'crashbox', as the vacuum assist was useless for double clutching.....

Get back to the 1940's and we lose the modern crank and rod bearing shells for poured babbit and this was the era when oil pumps were becoming popular. Although, many engines were still splash oiled - like a lawnmower - and also might or might not have oil filters. Time between rebuilds is on the order of 50k miles if you don't pay close attention to the engine oil. You need to use single weight non detergent oil, and match the weight used with the average temperature. Enjoy.

Go back into the 1930's and you lose even more things. All cars are manual everything, and the trannys have no synchromesh rings. You have to either listen carefully to the engine RPM to catch the shiftpoint, or you get to double clutch the thing.

This is where you hit the clutch, put the geasrshift into neutral, let up on the clutch, rev the engine, push back down on the clutch, and (if you did this right) the thing will go into the next gear. This is on the upshifts as well as the downshifts. Have fun mastering this one in LA traffic. Oh, when you get it wrong, the gears just grind and never go in. When going from first to second, and you miss it, you have to stop and then coax the thing back into first. The traffic will love you.

You also lose water pumps on the engines. They 'thermo-siphon'. Meaning natural convection is all that moves water thru the engine and radiator. There's no pressure on them, either, so 212 deg F is boil over. Don't worry, you'll know when it happens. The radiator cap is also the hood ornament, and it'll spray boiling water all over the car when it overheats. You can't drive one of these in modern traffic jams very well. They need at least 20 MPH airflow thru the radiators to work right......

Remember that 32 Ford I mentioned? It liked overheating. A lot. I finally figured out that there was some original casting sand that was in the engine that wound up knocked loose during the rebuild and it was clogging up a few passages between the block and the flat heads. Once I got it cleaned out, after another full teardown, it was much better about not overheating.

Also, pre 1937 and the cars have no fuel pumps. The gas tank is in the cowl. Watch old movies and newsreels. They fill the car right in front of the windshield. The system is gravity feed, with a shutoff under the dash. Yes, Virginia, the gas is kept right over your legs, and the line runs there as well. If you don't use the shut-off, the carburator can overflow with the engine off and raw gas runs all over the hot engine. Not a good day, trust me. Remember this safety tip.

Go back past 1930, and we lose oil pumps. I had a 29 Essex that required me to pull over every 15 miles, open the hood, pop an oil can off the firewall, oil the rockerarms as it was an overhead valve engine, put the can back, close the hood, and resume driving. Now, this was probably fine in 1929, but it stunk in 1989.....

Go back to the 1920's and things get even wierder. Case in point - the Model-T. It had belts for a tranny, odd foot pedals to work it, manual spark advance and throttle levers - on the steering column, and one drum brake - on the driveshaft. This is fine in a parade, but nothing to drive every day, trust me.

Go back even further, and cars are truly horseless carriages!

Now, you can always opt for a 'hot rod'. This is where they take, say, a 1941 Willys (or whatever) and stick in a driveline from a 1972 Camero (or whatever). Then, they use the front-end off of a 1976 Ford Mustang-II (honest, they love Mustang-II front end parts for some reason). Well, whatever they used, you'll have a 350 CID Chevy V8 with a Turbo-400 3-speed automatic, power front disc brakes, electric wipers, etc, etc. It'll serve better than a true vintage car as a daily driver, and you won't have to be you own mechanic so much.

You'd better pay close attention to what the builder used by way of make, model and year of parts, though. Otherwise, you'll have a bad time finding parts for the thing!

Well, that was long-winded, but maybe it'll help you *not* to get something that costs a lot and give you nothing but headaches. There *are* good 'modenrized' vintage cars out there, but you really have to keep your eyes open.

Later!

Stan

 

[jtcarrey]

AHHHHHH! I'm scared.....yea, I've dealt with some of these problems before with my friends old 46. So I know vintage cars can be a daily problem but I don't think they're all THAT bad.... it really depends on how well it was taken care of before I think, I mean, take my car for instance, everything in it leaks, the brakes are pretty much gone and they were JUST replaced, the tires are separating, the engine is about to fall out, none of the windows work except one in the back, the A/C barely works, the struts are bad, my headlights don't work haha so yea, I'm basically living in a vintage car right now if ya ask me, and that car only had one owner, who apparantly never took it to the dealership for it's check ups, just drove it with trust, and now look at it...

I know having a vintage car is a headache but how much fun are they! I know I'm just a silly girl, so I'm in no way a mechanic, but I have a bit of experience with old cars, plus they're built so much simpler than today's computerized machines... some new cars are ok but they don't compare to the beauty of an older one.. Of course, in a perfect world, I'd have my vintage car and my boring new car, because I don't think I could handle all the problems of an old car so yea..

your post gave me alot of insight though, stuff I don't know about, so it's good to know this kind of stuff before you get into anything like this but it doesn't change my opinions about owning a classic! I'm just a silly brainless girl when it comes to old cars so why not ya know! lol

 

[Stan]

Hi,

Well, first off I don't think you are *silly*, per se, and it matters not if you're male or female. What matters is that you don't rush off spending a large chunk-o-cash on a vintage car because it looks the way it does. Then, you find out about all those 'gotchas' that our parents and grandparents put up with! :eusa_doh:

I admit it - I got on a roll there, pardon the pun. Once I started wandering backward down memory lane, there, I picked up speed like I'd blown a brake line and was jammed in neutral going downhill!

I'm with you, actually. I'm seriously considering a couple vintage options right now. One is a 1940 Ford Business Coupe (no back seat so the salesman had space for the sample case). I'm not sure I want another flathead V8-60 to deal with, nor a 3-speed manual column shift......

The other is a 1963 Ford Country Sedan (Galaxie) station wagon. This one has a 390 with a six-pack (three two barrel carbs) and a 4-speed toploader (floor shift manual). This would be my choice, except it'll get 10 MPG! On a good day!! Downhill!!! With a tail wind!!!! :eusa_doh:

My daily driver right now is a 1990 Mercury Grand Marquis wagon. It has an electonically controlled, fuel injected 5 litre and gets 25 MPG. Much better to drive *and* to service. It tells me what's wrong with it! Plus, it only cost me $800.

However, I keep looking at that, and thinking, hmmm. I could get a crunched Mustang and move the engine and tranny into the wagon and make something reminescent of that 63 Galaxie wagon there, and get more go with even better gas mileage (depends on how one works the right foot) and still keep the power everything, air conditioned, modern stuff.

I'm 46 now, and beginning to appreciate all those 'modern things' that they put in cars for so long. lol

Plus, that would be a pretty good 'sleeper'. It'd be even better than the 1963 sleeper would be! I mean, some folks would suspect the 63 just because of it's age and condition. No one would look twice at the 90!

Anyway, the idea of having a modern car to drive on a daily basis and then a vintage one for fun is pretty much how everyone does the car hobby. And - for a very good reason. You need a working car to go get the parts you need for the broken one (or while waiting for UPS to bring the parts)!!!

As far as finding one goes, Hemmings is the best place. They even have on-line ads you can search, although they are a month old as they give the readers of the magazine a head start. Also, eBay isn't too bad as far as the really vintage stuff goes.

I have some lines on stuff from time-to-time, but I'm all the way over on the other coast, so I don't think I'd be much help in that respect....

Later!

Stan

 

[Spellflower]

I think the point is, owning a classic as a hobby car is one thing; depending on one for daily transportation needs is quite another.

 

[jtcarrey]

ahhh Stan, well I haven't the dough right now to buy a car and definately not the credit to finance one, so I'm basically dreaming now... even if I sold my wreck, it wouldn't be enough to get a car... my car is worth maybe -$6000 hahaha so yea... but someday hopefully life will straighten out where my dreams will come true

Spellfleur, totally true...

 

[renor27]

you can drive vinatge

I ride a 1964 BMW R60/2 with 1942 Sidecar.
Rebuilt the bike and hack from a pile of parts.
My 14 year old Aussie rides in the sidecar.
Also run a 1966 VW bug and my "new car" is a 1978 Bronco
The thing about running older rigs is just remember what the were built for and drive them that way.
You can take a older car and bring some of the systems ( brakes electrical etc ) in to the 21st century and still keep the rig simple.
Both My German rigs start in any weather and are fun to drive. My Bronco is still getting the make over and with gas prices and a V8 not sure how much driving it will be getting. Am toying with the idea of building a Baja Bug to replace the Bronco for desert exploring adventures.
David

 

[jtcarrey]

well one of these days I'll be proud to say I own a vintage vehicle!! sighssssss just sucks waiting hahaha lol

 

[Murph351]

I've posted this here before; 1949 GMC pickup

This is my Vintage vehicle that is regularly driven here in Los Angeles.
It is all original except for a switch from 6volt to 12volt. (easier to charge my cell phone now.)
When driving a vintage vehicle you just need to slow down and relax.(one of the reasons I actually enjoy driving the old girl.)
The brakes and suspension are light years behind what are now available
but if you're familiar with your old auto you can anticipate traffic and leave ample room for safe travel.
I drive this all the time on the LA freeways. (top speed is 55mph people either wave or flip me off!)
Things break on all cars but I've found fixing the simple systems on this truck to be a breeze and parts are
all readily available.
I would drive this thing cross country with no worries.
I would probably wear out on the trip before the truck.
If you want a heated butt and can't turn the radio knob yourself you probably don't want a vintage truck.
But if you want your own time machine that will transport you back in time with a simple drive than go Vintage!

 

[jtcarrey]

I've posted this here before; 1949 GMC pickup

This is my Vintage vehicle that is regularly driven here in Los Angeles.
It is all original except for a switch from 6volt to 12volt. (easier to charge my cell phone now.)
When driving a vintage vehicle you just need to slow down and relax.(one of the reasons I actually enjoy driving the old girl.)
The brakes and suspension are light years behind what are now available
but if you're familiar with your old auto you can anticipate traffic and leave ample room for safe travel.
I drive this all the time on the LA freeways. (top speed is 55mph people either wave or flip me off!)
Things break on all cars but I've found fixing the simple systems on this truck to be a breeze and parts are
all readily available.
I would drive this thing cross country with no worries.
I would probably wear out on the trip before the truck.
If you want a heated butt and can't turn the radio knob yourself you probably don't want a vintage truck.
But if you want your own time machine that will transport you back in time with a simple drive than go Vintage!

HOT DOG! That's what I'm talkin' about! lol yes, I'm usually relaxed when I drive either way and I don't drive freeways too often, I usually drive streets unless I'm horribly late for work or something... or going somewhere that requires a freeway... but yes, I love the feeling of driving around in an old car, it makes me feel like I'm in the past, something I would have loved to experience..

 

[tonyb]

Love your posts, Stan.

I developed a love for old cars back when they were all I could afford. But then, this was back when those "classics" were just used cars. And had anybody suggested they were "pre-owned," we would have laughed him into next week. Pre-owned? So good of them to pre-own it for us, dontcha think? Sheesh.

Anyway, I soon enough learned that I wasn't a particularly skillful automobile repairman. But in those days, a person in my circumstances either fixed his own car or he hitchhiked. So I asked a lot of questions and did a lot of things wrong the first time through and somehow managed to get where I was going. Usually, anyway.

I'm still cheap, though. And while I certainly wouldn't mind owning a brand-spankin' new higher-end car, I still view cars mostly as tools. The new wears off real quick, and then all you have is just another car. And a monthly payment plan stretching out into the Nader Administration. (And Corvairs weren't really THAT bad, Ralph. I owned a couple of 'em and, well, OK, I darn near died in one of 'em, but still ...)

I still have a '67 Triumph POS (aka Spitfire) which hasn't moved in, oh, 10 years or so. It's in real nice shape -- no rust, nice interior, etc. -- excepting its shot engine. I'll get around to fixing it one of these days. For now we're a two-van household -- a '93 Astro with 153,000 miles on it, and a '98 Windstar with 80-some thousand. Put in the key and go. And when something goes wrong, I take 'em to the shop, where one guy grabs my right ankle, and another grabs my left, and they turn me upside down and shake.

 

[SamReu]

Spokes Man

First, my hat is off to Stan, who is from my hometown of Raleigh, N.C. Not only can you turn a wrench, old hoss, but you can turn a phrase, too. A marvelous combination.

Second, everything he says is correct: Those old cars are easy on the eyes, hard on the budget. I own a 1931 Ford, and the first thing I bought after loading it on a flatbed truck and bringing it home was a good set of wrenches. As of this writing, 14 years after I bought the car, I think the wrenches have done just as many revolutions as the wheels. I enjoy the car, but know that any outing with it is liable to be an adventure -- and not always a pleasant one.

(Oh, the second thing I bought after acquiring the wrenches? A really good chain. Yes, it has traveled some miles, too.)

So think hard before choosing to drive daily in a heap -- er, vintage car. My other car is an 11-year-old Honda station wagon. I marvel at its efficiency, its smart features, its astonishing reliability. When you hear folks say they don't make them like they used to, know that they are telling the truth.

I love my Model A, but not on a daily basis.

And Murph 351's GMC pickup? It's the first cousin of the Chevy 3100 Thriftmaster series. Never was a finer truck made, anywhere, anytime. I used to ride an old one into the tobacco fields when I was a kid. But that's probably a topic for another section of the Lounge.

 

[renor27]

Vintage cars

I would say that a Model A is pushing it as a Daily Driver but for years my ride was a 1937 One Ton Chevy Flat Bed ranch Truck not that fast and stopping was some thing to get used to but it always got me where I was going and in a strange kind of style
I would say with the after market parts out there today you can take say a 1941 Chevy 1/2 ton switch over to 12 volt keep the straight 6 change out the rear gears to some thing that will do 65mph on the hiway and disk brakes up front and a few other little things like better heater and better windshield wipers and radial tires and you would have a truck that will run for an other 67 years.
In 1995 I drove across the country in a 1953 Chevy two door. was a great road trip hit every dinner I could find and enjoy camping out.
Have ridden across the country 6 times on pre-1970 BMW sidecar rigs . I did not set any speed records but got more thumbs up then I could count and invited for many a great meal and a warm place to sleep
Vintage cars are fun you just have to understand that any car is going to break down some day and that they might not have all the comforts of a modern car but they do set you apart and for the most part if they break you can fix them your self.
David

 

[MrNewportCustom]

Here's my '67 Chrysler.

I've had it since 2000. It was a very lucky find: I got it for $1,000.00. It'd been sitting in the back of the underground garage of an apartment building for almost twenty years by the time I found it.

When you find your car, expect to make repairs: gaskets, seals, hoses, etc., and especially tires. Be sure to put aside a little more than you want to pay for the car for these.

Your best bet for a vintage car is to take your time finding one. Save while you're looking and get the best you can afford. When you get it, join a club for your make of car. Clubs are an invaluable source of information. Ask around about good garages: I can send you to three excellent ones near me: one for electric, one for undecarriage, suspension and brakes, and another for upholstery (which I have not used for this car, yet). I've never needed engine work beyond replacing such items as alternators, fuel and water pumps or belts, so I haven't yet found a good shop for engines. (I'm knocking on wood that I won't need to anytime soon.) There are also automotive swap meets pretty much year round. There's a huge one in Pomona approximately every six weeks. But, almost no one there carries anything for my car (Mopar), so I go to a show-and-swap in Van Nuys that's held twice a year.

I don't rel on it for everyday transportation, but I do drive it two or three times a week. Hopefully, you'll be lucky enough to find a car as reliable as mine.

Best of luck, JT. They're rare, but they're out there.

Note: A four-door will generally sell for less than a two-door. That's true for pretty much any vintage car.


Lee

 

[jtcarrey]

thank you everyone for your insight I'm still stupid enough to want an old car though haha but I will try and make sure I have another back up car just incase... in a perfect world yes

 

[jtcarrey]

thanks MrNewport, I'm definately taking my time as I'm poor now and need a job first haha but yea, I know that getting an old car is a huge investment so I'll be ready when the time comes

 

[renor27]

vinatge cars

Spend your time looking @ cars and truck find what you like and then just keep your eyes open and the right one will fall into your lap.
If you want any advice or ideas or help ( not so much wrenching due to the fact you are in LA and I am in Reno ) but help in terms of what to look for what you might want to stay away from there is an offer on the table
david