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Waist coats are a jacket's best friend...

PADDY

I'll Lock Up
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You say tamate-taa, we say tomatoe...

A waistcoat is a waistcoat, is a waistcoat. That small sleeveless jacket that comes down to your waist that one wears beneath a full length conventional jacket. Tradition dictates that gentlemen wear it fully buttoned with the last button undone, in memory of King Edward VII.

Supposedly this practice began when the British king Edward VII grew too large a stomach to close the last button, and other gentlemen of his company slavishly followed the example, whether out of courtesy or because Edward was such a style setter they thought it an appealing touch. Whatever the impetus, the fashion caught on quickly, and leaving the bottom button idle is still considered de rigueur for fastidious dressers. In The Road To Wigan Pier (1937), George Orwell, rather sneeringly I'm afraid, reminded his readers of the English class-consciousness of such idiosyncrasies of dress: Comrade X, it so happens, is an old Etonian. He would be ready to die on the barricades, in theory anyway, but you notice that he still leaves his bottom waistcoat button undone!

A vest, as BT rightly point out, is an undergarment, just like underpants are undergarments. And you wear your vest underneath a conventional shirt to keep warm. Having said that, you do, on odd occasions, see rather uncouth fashion disasters of men, with pot bellies, sporting a stained and yellowing 'vest' that allows their rolled tummy to overflow like Angel Falls, over their equally stained and saggy denim jeans. It's also fashionable to accompany this look with a 5 o'clock shadow, a cigarette end hanging out of the side of one's mouth and having breath that makes the aroma of a badger's armpit decisively tasty!

The idea of a waistcoat being referred to as 'a vest' died out in the 18th Century, thank goodness!, if my mind serves me correctly!

How the two terms can ever be confused today, beggers belief.
 

Mycroft

One Too Many
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Florida, U.S.A. for now
PADDY said:
A waistcoat is a waistcoat, is a waistcoat. That small sleeveless jacket that comes down to your waist that one wears beneath a full length conventional jacket. Tradition dictates that gentlemen wear it fully buttoned with the last button undone, in memory of King Edward VII.

Supposedly this practice began when the British king Edward VII grew too large a stomach to close the last button, and other gentlemen of his company slavishly followed the example, whether out of courtesy or because Edward was such a style setter they thought it an appealing touch. Whatever the impetus, the fashion caught on quickly, and leaving the bottom button idle is still considered de rigueur for fastidious dressers. In The Road To Wigan Pier (1937), George Orwell, rather sneeringly I'm afraid, reminded his readers of the English class-consciousness of such idiosyncrasies of dress: Comrade X, it so happens, is an old Etonian. He would be ready to die on the barricades, in theory anyway, but you notice that he still leaves his bottom waistcoat button undone!

A vest, as BT rightly point out, is an undergarment, just like underpants are undergarments. And you wear your vest underneath a conventional shirt to keep warm. Having said that, you do, on odd occasions, see rather uncouth fashion disasters of men, with pot bellies, sporting a stained and yellowing 'vest' that allows their rolled tummy to overflow like Angel Falls, over their equally stained and saggy denim jeans. It's also fashionable to accompany this look with a 5 o'clock shadow, a cigarette end hanging out of the side of one's mouth and having breath that makes the aroma of a badger's armpit decisively tasty!


The idea of a waistcoat being referred to as 'a vest' died out in the 18th Century, thank goodness!, if my mind serves me correctly!

How the two terms can ever be confused today, beggers belief.

That is power first hand, eh. Well, I am going to buy my first 3-piece suit soon, I decided in the airport yesterday. Any suggestions on the general way a waist coat should fit and feel.
 

scotrace

Head Bartender
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Small Town Ohio, USA
Great Quote for under your Greatcoat

PADDY said:
...with pot bellies, sporting a stained and yellowing 'vest' that allows their rolled tummy to overflow like Angel Falls, over their equally stained and saggy denim jeans. It's also fashionable to accompany this look with a 5 o'clock shadow...

"If you and your undershirt would take two paces backward, I could enter this dwelling."
"May I have three aspirins? You'll find them in the medicine cabinet, just behind the untouched can of shaving cream."


Hobson, from the film "Arthur"
 

BellyTank

I'll Lock Up
...some Waistcoats...

...for the record...

1937_Waistcoats.jpg


1937_Waistcoatsa.jpg


B
T
 

Alan Eardley

One Too Many
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1,500
Location
Midlands, UK
The waistcoat

The waistcoat...a worthy and under-rated item of clothing. I'm regarded as eccentric in wearing a waistcoat both formally and informally as not many men in the UK wear them now, except as formal wear. I venture to suggest a reason: in terms of fit, a waistcoat is an unforgiving garment, I feel. If you're 150 lbs they look great; if you're 200 lbs, you get a sort of overhang that looks...well, unsightly. Perhaps that's why not many men wear them nowadays. They go with a 1930s or 1940s male body. Maybe we should leave it at that. Just my opinion.
 
PADDY said:
And you wear your vest underneath a conventional shirt to keep warm. Having said that, you do, on odd occasions, see rather uncouth fashion disasters of men, with pot bellies, sporting a stained and yellowing 'vest' that allows their rolled tummy to overflow like Angel Falls, over their equally stained and saggy denim jeans. It's also fashionable to accompany this look with a 5 o'clock shadow, a cigarette end hanging out of the side of one's mouth and having breath that makes the aroma of a badger's armpit decisively tasty!

Ahem, i believe this image will convey the look well. Rab C. always was a looker:


rabcnesbitt_2.jpg


Whew, haven't thought about him for many a year. Thank you for bringing that image back to mind
 

Mojave Jack

One Too Many
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1,785
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Yucca Valley, California
I continuously troll e-Bay for good waistcoats, though I have to use "vest" as the search term or only itmes for sale in Great Britain result. I've been keeping my eye on the Territory Ahead Outpost Vest, hpoing for a sale to make it affordable; The same for most of the Orvis options, too.

Hemingway (right) and I are of a similar opinion, as you can see here: Mojave and Hemingway at the QM
 

scotrace

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Staff member
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Small Town Ohio, USA
Two New

In the past week, I've screwed up my family's gifting plans and gotten myself two new waistcoats. One is a J. Peterman lambskin with low gorge, lapels and two flap pockets in a mottled burgundy. It has an extra buttonhole turned the opposite direction from the others for a watch chain. The back is a paisley print satin. The other is the Orvis Expedition vest, which I've wanted for two years and expected to really really like but it's cut rather short. It's in cowhide with flap pockets, lapels, high gorge and five (hard to fasten) buttons in front and two adjuster buttons in back (one of which fell off as soon as the thing came out of the box). This one is leather all the way 'round, with a gold satin lining - cowboyish. Clothes from Orvis fit me oddly. Always too big around and too short. I guess the average fly fisherman must have the average round shape. I may yet send it back.
Anyone have any of the Scully/Wahmaker canvas waistcoats? The tweed ones from Orvis?
Pictures as soon as I can.
 

PADDY

I'll Lock Up
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Scot's waistcoat purchases...

Scot, they sound great! looking forward to getting the pics up on the room here! Oh, and with the extra button hole for a watch...have you got one that you are likely to wear with the coat? As a pocket watch will just raise that coat into another dimension!! Good luck with it.
 

Nick Charles

Practically Family
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989
Location
Sunny Phoenix
Hey Scot I have a bunch of the Wahmaker vests, 1 canvas and the rest wool. They are great with only 1 drawback, they don't usually come with a pointed hem, only straight cut.

breeks0014rp.jpg


the best place to get them by far is www.wildwestmercantile.com they get limited runs and overstock from scully and sell them cheap.
 

scotrace

Head Bartender
Staff member
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14,392
Location
Small Town Ohio, USA
Nick Charles said:
Hey Scot I have a bunch of the Wahmaker vests, 1 canvas and the rest wool. They are great with only 1 drawback, they don't usually come with a pointed hem, only straight cut...
...the best place to get them by far is www.wildwestmercantile.com they get limited runs and overstock from scully and sell them cheap.

Thanks for the info and link. I found an Ebayer who sells the stuff fairly cheaply, but they're all canvas pieces. The Orvis vest is a but like that. The bottom is pointed but still... not pointed enough? Makes it too short.
You look great in that by the way. Nice waistcoat!
As soon as I get the tree up and settle down a bit tonight, I'll try and get some pictures up.
And Paddy, I do indeed have a watch to wear with it. It's a Deuber-Hampden schoolhouse model, late 1870's. It was a Christmas gift from my then-girlfriend, now-wife. Our first Christmas together...
Thanks you, gents, as usual. Always a big help.
 

Wild Root

Gone Home
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5,532
Location
Monrovia California.
Waistcoat VS Vest.

Vest is what we Yanks call a waist coat. BT, I have to say you're images you posted a page ago are just simply marvelous! Very nice images you shared!

I'm going to continue calling a waistcoat a vest because that's how us yanks prefer it.;) Just as you Brits insist on calling French fries "Chips" :rolleyes: J/K. There's no correct name for it, it's just the name our countries call some similar items.

Another item I must bring to attention. A waistcoat is not a jacket or outer wear. This is more of a "General Attire" topic I feel. Yeah, I'm playing that record again so sue me! Just like to make that clear.

Cheers,
=WR=
 

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