Vision of the future?-by Snrbfshn 9/28/05

[K.D. Lightner]

Unless it has something in the back to protect from the sun (e.g. the Foreign Legion hat), I would not want to wear it. It has no more protection than a ballcap, which has very little.

Perhaps it is meant to dress-up in and not for protection. It also does remind me of a military hat and I am not much into those unless they're Australian slouch hats.

Good luck in your venture, you might very well find a market for the hat/cap.

karol

 

[Russ]

I wish I could see more photos before offering an opinion, but judging from the one in the avatar, and the one on the under-construction web site, I would say this hat does have a niche. I see guys in suits with baseball caps (and most are not even Washington lobbyists) who would consider such an item a step up; something that goes with their suit fabric but still doesn't take them off the deep end into the dark evil world of fedoras.

I'm not a cap wearer (except when I go running) and prefer the deep end where the water isn't as warm.

 

[WEEGEE]

RUSS

I'm not a cap wearer (except when I go running) and prefer the deep end where the water isn't as warm.

...as warm, LOL

I do like the design as I stated in a prior post.

 

[thefedorastore]

To comments posted under the thread "Vision of the future" 9/28/05
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4496 ,
If you don't have anything nice to say, why say it? ....

Welcome to the Lounge Mike. Don't take many of these comments to heart too much. No matter where you go, you will find those that are full of themselves, and those with simply an opinion. Take every post at face value. I agree with your point, and think you don't deserve to be called a "fool" just because someone doesn't like your design. I also think your innvoation is to be applauded, as it is difficult to come up with new designs. I think you should market to "hollywood" and the "urban" scene, and I think you will do well. Watch out that Kangol doesn't grab on to it! In the women's line, most creations are accepted without the harshness you have encountered. However, men are different. We all have to handle some posts that are zings, but most of the time around here, they are more subtle and gentlemanly, and I am sure there are some folks that would like to retract some remarks now that you are here. I personally am glad you are here and welcome again.

Duane

BTW, posts in TheFedoraLounge (a very productive website!!)
are very nicely indexed in the search engines, and I would guess that it happens daily based on the volume of traffic. http://www.alexa.com

 

[BigSho]

I don't know how many people know it but Borsalino makes something just like it sans the band. I also have many customer (good ones) that want to wear a baseball cap with a suit (and do). Not saying it is right cause I am no baseball cap man myself just sayin.

Jeremy
http://www.hats-plus.com

 

[Twitch]

Hey Mike ole dude, the problem with the internet is the anonymity of it all. It emboldens some people to just be hateful. The Lounge is more mellow with very little of people with attitudes. And thankfully they've just now banned political discussion. All I've seen elsewhere is banal arguements about this or that political party or politician. I personally don't understand why anyone wants to discuss it. I am so tired of people on the web with agendas that hijack threads and bend them into some political harangue I can't stand it. Lot of that is from kids but there aren't any kiddies here.

Then you have the people who are overty aggressive towards you but sit back and snipe with smartaleck one line responses. There's a glib sarcasm that you really can't stomach but they aren't flaming you so the moderators leave them alone.

If everyone is honest and respectful we all do fine. We all have differing opinions, theories and ideals. There's "sorry, but I respectfully disagree," and there's "what are you and idiot?"

But the cap-a-hat? Uh, for me no thanks.

Anyhow let's just ease back into the booth and order some drinks.

 

[Snrbfshn]

Since I started it...

After an absence of several months (it's a long story), I'm back in the Lounge.

NeezusMike, welcome. Diversity of thought among the Lounge's clientele makes this the best hat site in the world.

The reason I started the thread back in September was because the hat's design was provocative, and I knew it would generate a lively discussion. You might note I never offered an opinion, just posing the question. That said, I feel now as I did then that the design wasn't for me.

The historical perspective of hats shows a number of styles that pop up and then disappear. It certainly is worth asking the question where one thinks hat design is going. While reminiscent of the Legionnaires cap and the ubiquitous ball cap, clearly your cap's differing design invited speculation, as well as criticism.

Also, it was impossible then to get a lot of information on it or you. Your website was minimal and the mention in Hat Life was a tease more than a promotion.

I applaud your art, and hope there is a market to sustain it. Any hatmaker is a welcome addition to the currently very thin ranks.

 

[NeezusMike]

Keepin' it Loosh as usual...

That was appreciated. We thank all the critics too...

 

[bolthead]

That was appreciated. We thank all the critics too...

I never got to see what it looked like..... [huh]

 

[art92101]

Johnny Rebel or was it Yuma?

The hat/cap on the web site reminds me of the 60s TV show where I think Steve McQueen played a roving former confederate soldier. He wore a confederate cap? the style looks like it may have potential, the website needs more photos. I would not order as its too much like a cap. I like require fuller shade over my ears. Good luck!

 

[Warlock]

It is not a hat for a traditionalist like me. But I find the artistic concept engaging. I like the look. It is youthful and distinctly post-modern in style. Yes, it certainly has its antecedents, but what hat does not? After all, if the Bauhaus dictum rules anything it must apply to things made to sit on the human head. If a hat may be brimless, fully brimmed, or partially brimmed, there are only so many options. And certainly a bill may be flat, or curved, but there are limits to that if it is to be serviceable. Yes, it commits the sin of being a cap.

But this seems a new and unique artistic blending of the possibilities of that style. That in itself is appealing. Normally I would align myself firmly with the traditionalists, but not this time. Then again, I feel that any fedora with a brim of less than 2 3/4 inches is undesirable... for me. Most here would probably stop before that width.

Note please, NeezusMike, that broad brimmed fedoras have sometime been mocked here along with the hatter, and it was taken in good sport. The difference here is simply that you were not known to those who made comments. And they were pronouncing opinions, not deciding something momentous about your fate. This is after all a community, and at the time your hat was discussed, you were not a part of it.

If you had been, the comments might have been the same anyway. This is, after all, The FEDORA Lounge.

Having said that....

This seems a worthy hat to me for the right person. I can certainly see it with a modern style of suit or a classic Nehru style jacket. The fact that I would not care for one because I believe it would not suit me does not mean that I do not appreciate the hatter's skill and the creative artistry in it.

Yes, we ought to remember in all our comments that hats are made and sold by people. It might be wise to temper remarks and comparisons accordingly. I imagine not. I notice that there seem to be no recollections of the classic French police hat although the related Legionaire's hat is mentioned. I wonder if the very general style has a broader set of antecedents in European military stylings? In that case this hat may be evocative of military authority figures.

On the other hand, I do not think it is a good thing for any forum to require its members to never give offense to someone. That seems to be impossible.

So, I do not like this hat for my personal wear. I would not wear one. I think I like the ideas behind it and the art that went into creating it. It may be that his next concept will suit me perfectly. I hope so.

If a member wants to really test how someone feels about this general style, perhaps he should find a member of the French Foreign Legion and laugh at his hat. Get back to us about how that works out, please.

 

[cooncatbob]

I rather like it, one picture from one angle doesn't tell much. I'd like a different color felt, a little higher crown and a different crease. I've never been a fan of the pork pie. I'd like to see more.
Bob.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Note please, NeezusMike, that broad brimmed fedoras have sometime been mocked here along with the hatter, and it was taken in good sport

.

Warlock, I understand and am intimately familiar with what you are referring to and your comments on the situation won't fly. The hatter you are referring to NEVER took anything in good sport. Instead he spewed the vile he is most accustomed to and spews it still to this day. You will not enlist any pity for him with your comments. None is deserved.

On the other hand, I do not think it is a good thing for any forum to require its members to never give offense to someone. That seems to be impossible

.

I disagree Warlock. This is the Fedora Lounge, not a backroom standing bar. Here adhominim attacks, which you refer to as "give offence" will never be tolerated even if you follow them with "and thats the truth". There is a huge difference between unintentionally offending someone and verbal attacks usually referring to ones personal sexual preferences. Your favorite hatter is a dead issue here but good try.
Civility IS not only possible, but required, agreed with or not.

By the way, I think you might have the "Godwin's Rule" record for quickest invocation of Hitler & Nazi's.

On another note

IT's good to see you stop in Mike.. How are things going with your venture?

 

[Warlock]

Art, I was not referring to another hatter. In fact, I was more surprised by that comment than any other you made. Sometimes things are simply what they seem. You look for an agenda that is not there. There is no need to defend where no offense was given, and certainly no need to assume any here. In what way was there any incivility stated or implied here? Point it out and tell me how I may make amends.

I tell you in truth that you assumed I was thinking something I was not.

I do not know what this Godwin's Rule is. I was pointing out that there was a connection being made to the hat being discussed and one worn by certain positions in the Nazi Army. As vile and monstrous as that regime and it works were, if we were to eliminate all hats worn by Nazis. we would be left with very little. I believe I would have to burn my fedoras.

What would you have me do? Is there some disclaimer you want? Is there a set of rules I have not respected here? Is there a special set for me? Fine, lay it out. I will do my best to observe it.

No offense was intended. Things are simply as they were put. Any agenda in my post was simple and straightforward. If that will not suffice, I can do no better. I will merely point out that civility is more than proper speach and spelling. It is in the intent as well. So please explain what is required here.

I do wish that one could simply look for custom hatters and buy hats. By the grace of God I am blessed with the time for the first and the funds for the second. I was looking to do that here. In fact, after having a certain commercially produced fedora perform poorly with just a little rain today, I was determined to purchase an Akubra through a gentleman I met on this forum. As you know, I like broad brims. But if I am unwelcome, my custom must be also.

I will wait for you to advise me of how anything I said here warranted your apparent taking of offense, so that I may understand this situation better. I came here for an education and for understanding. I wait upon your instructions.

Oh, Good grief. Art, I just realized what you took offense at. I cannot believe this is what set you against me. I just reread my post to try to figure out what set you off. Now I get it.

Art, the hat and the hatter I was referring to was a gray hat shown in an unfiinished state with an open crown on the head of one of the present members here who is also a hatter. It is a light grey fedora that he showed in a photograph first in its unfinished state and then as completed. He was in the picture out of doors when he showed the first shot, if I remember correctly. It was a very handsome hat made by a member of the Fedora Lounge.

And you took that innocent comparison and leaped to someone I will not bring up here! Oh my, is this what you thought? Do you think I would need to be here for some cause other than my own? I have more respect for MK than that, and I know full well every thing I say is being scrutinized, but it took me until now to get it. I probably cannot lawyer my words enough to suit you.

If you are looking to ban me just do it and be done. Good grief, everything about me is not about the people I get hats from. I actually wanted to purchase a hat from you to see how I liked your work. A great many people seem to respect it, and I am capable of making up my own mind as much as they are. I will assume you have closed that door. I was considering a purchase, if something really struck my eye, from your compatriot in St. Augustine when I go there next. But every time I think it is going to be about the hats, off we go.

This would be funny if it were not so sad. You are the bartender here, I believe. Do as you wish. But you called this one wrong.

God bless,
John

 

[Warlock]

Here is the hat and the hatter art. I believe you may know them.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=19714

I say again, good grief!

 

[Feraud]

As vile and monstrous as that regime and it works were, if we were to eliminate all hats worn by Nazis. we would be left with very little. I believe I would have to burn my fedoras.

Are you implying these fellows inspired everything we know and love about fedoras?
If I were to eliminate Nazi headwear, I would have plenty to wear.
This is an odd and rambling conversation.

I think the idea behind not giving offense comes from the idea of, "if you do not have something nice to say, do not say anything." It may not be perfect but many folks live by it.

 

[Warlock]

I made no such implication. In fact, I cannot think of any apparel that was really original to the the Nazis. They even took an ancient symbol and made it a heinous and hated one. I point out that linking this particular hat concept to picture of Nazi uniform hats is as unfair as linking the fedora. They did not originate that former style any more than they may lay claim to originating the fedora. The iinference is unfounded.

Yes, it would seem to be a rather odd and rambling conversation if one does not have the back story. Then it would make as much sense as the post that ran before it. They are of a piece. Art brings up a party himself that I did not. That is the problem. Another is that while he may be speak of that person and subject, I may not, and in fact have no wish to.

A portion of the problem I am perceived as causing is that I was following the sound advice of saying something nice about both the new hat concept and the Fedora Lounge. I stand by what I said, as it was said, and as it was intended.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Warlock,
Please know that your words on other forums do not always stay there. Not too long ago you stated on another forum that you intended to join other hat forums to be (I'm paraphrasing here) a "soldier" and to spread the word ( or "truth" if you will) of another hatter. You stated quite clearly that you would "take up his cause". I made no mention of his name but those of us who have been around here a while know who we are talking about. Since I tend to take people at their word until proven that I can't, I believe this could still be your purpose. Subtle referrences, inuendo's, disceet comments toward that aim are noticed here.

I'm actually flattered that you believe that I or any other Bartender have the power to ban someone. That is not the case. That is only the domain of MK, along with all personal information about members not offered in public. I made no mention, referrence, inuendo, or hint of trying to ban you for reasons of my last post so please, keep things in perspective. I AM trying to alert you.

As for your statement of "giving no offence " being impossible I respectully disagree. I stand by my words in that regard. There are verbal ways to communicate without being offensive. Rather than using the wording you chose, I propose the word Civil in all of it's contexts. We can and will be civil on this forum. If that's impossible, then obviously it's the wrong forum for those who can't.

I am not accusing you of giving offence, just disagreeing with your statement. Anything more that you read into my post I have no control over, only you can control that. I too try very hard to use the words I intend, as you can glean from my past posts.

Now, as for your assumption that that I have closed any doors, that is entirely yours Sir. To date I've had no personal contact with you so I can't see how it would be personal, but I DO read. Your words on other forums can easily be read as kneeling on the alter of another hatter who continously refers to me as his "failed student". Just to be clear, I was working with hats 15 years before ever hearing this persons name. I was never and never will be a follower of this hatters ideas or techniques as many are just plain wrong. The real truth is that I taught more than learned but found the hatter unwilling to learn OR change habits. You will find this truth over time. Your words on that forum can easily lead one to believe that you aren't really interested in truth as you have made no effort, to my knowledge to date, to get the "other side of the story" from those that would know. That can only happen at your innitiative so one can conclude a lack of interest. My phone number is published if you'd care to continue the conversation privately.

 

[Marty M.]

Publicity is a good thing.

That was appreciated. We thank all the critics too...

Mike it's guy's like you that keep a spark going in our industry. The hat industry like any other product industry needs innovation and "outside the four walls" thinking. Keep hitting the industry with new ideas. It's good for all of us.
Marty Mathis

 

[Warlock]

Art, After a time on the other forum I determined to try to get to the root of the dispute we do not name. Oddly, you can bring it up in the usual codes while I try to avoid it. I thought this would be the place to get a better understanding of the history. To date I have not been able to sort that matter out. I am still trying. In the meantime I believe you will note that I have been instrumental in calming things down with that other party and he has issue an apology that is at least a start. I have publicly tasked him for language and sexual innuendo and while he is no saint, you cannot argue that he has not shown a previously uncharacteristic propriety.

As for that soldier reference, you can tell that there was banter going on when it was made. This is the kind of problem I have faced. I cannot get a good reading on whether a peace can be made, or even a truce. I have made an effort to try to discover what parties are more right than the others. But that is a sub-agenda to looking for hats. I used a different name on this forum for the purpose of looking for hat information. It took no time for someone here to connect two different ISP identifiers.

And i will point out that the other forum of which you speak had persons from this forum conducting themselves in ways that would get them properly booted in a heartbeat. For some, but probably not for you, there was a profound double standard.

As for doing business with you at this time, I think it would be a great folly to employ the services of a hatter who is antagonistic to me. So if I make a decision not to do business with such a one, who is the real author of that choice? Perhaps it can be resolved someday. But until and unless I can determine who is aligned how here, I withhold my custom but continue to buy hats.

By the way, that fellow Douglas can really wear a hat.

Yes, one can give no offense, but members here give and take it at times, and only sometimes intentionally. It would be a happy ideal, but I do not think there is a pure exemplar in any forum I have seen.

Art, I am being clubbed over the head here with references to that other hatter, and anyone who thinks I have not attempted to scrupulously avoid my own references to him is simply wrong. You leaped to an inference that I have hopefully clarified for you. But you did not acknowledge it. Art, you started this with a wrong leap.

I do not know what control is shared here, but I do know that the chief executive stated his belief that I had been hacked, and the origin of the links to that appear to lie here in information provided during registration and in that other forum you insist on bringing up. As for no personal contact, I believe that this is such. It seems personal enough to me.

This is simple. I like quality hats. I can separate hats from their makers. I am not responsible for statements made by my hatters. I do not let others tell me who I may choose as my friends. I can see the good in some flawed people and I am sometimes seen as having some good inspite of my flaws.

In sum, I will use a profane and vulgar tobacco spitting farrier if he does the best job on the horses. I can separate the quality of his work from him.

Now as to giving offense...

I kneel at the altar of God and no man, and it is an uncivil and offensive thing to insult my faith with your statement about kneeling at the altar of a man. Having assiduosly studied me you know that. It appears a gravely intentional thing. My Christian faith is well published where you have studied me. You know how I wouild feel about what you said.

There is a great double standard at work in this. I hope it will stop so that we may have a reasonable dialogue.

As for finding the truth over time, that is one reason I jooined this forum... to try to get the whole story, so I could adjust my thinkng if it was called for. I got slapped down for what I thought was an innocent post once before, and now again. I have proactively sought information through the search engines here, but codes and aliases have defeated me to date. Even looking seems to get me scrutinized. So there again you have assumed something that is not true.

Art, I have not studied your past posts as you have mine, but I have read them and was impressed by them.

Please tell me where to find you phone number, and I will call you. Please state the time that would be most suitable. Alternatively, your associates have my number.

You left some of my questions unanswered. Perhaps we can discuss those. In the meantime I think I shall order an Akubra. That Federation looks nice to me.