VintageGoth?

[fernande]

Well, I'm not a Gothic historian, mind you, but it seems to me that there's always been a long thread running through Western culture to the Gothic movement. What we think of as Goth, though, got rolling in the late 70's and very early 80's in England, with bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees, Southern Death Cult, Joy Division, The Cure, and so on. The New Musical Express was the magazine that coined the term "Gothic", I believe, and the style eventually spread beyond the borders of England to the world.

The original style was wonderful - Elegant but funereal, but Industrial and other styles have entered the scene and changed it into something more circusy to my eye. To be fair, Goth was pretty moribund by the mid-late 80s, and might have died off (heh) if not for the fresh infusion of kids. It all comes down to what you want, a pure corpse or a living stranger. Gee, that question is a better summary than anything else I've written here...

It seems natural that it started with England - All the ingredients were historically in place; the Romantic poets, iffy weather, a repression of overt sexuality and it's corresponding secret nurture of furtive perversions, class division, tradition, and so on. England, this is meant as a compliment - Don't hit me, please?

Basically, though, I imagine there have always been people with what I call "The Goth Gene", people who are more in love with the splendour of decay than the beauty of rebirth. I saw a news article yesterday that stated in incredulous and half-mocking tones that certain cities in England are in the process of promoting their large old cemeteries as recreational areas. When I heard it, I thought, "Now why didn't someone do that EARLIER?!? I spent much of my twenties sneaking into Richmond's ancient Hollywood Cemetery at risk of life, limb, and clean police blotter, just to spend an evening in the place I considered (and still do consider) among the most beautiful and peaceful on earth, and now they INVITE people in!

Call it strange, but it's an attractive and very real thing, and will probably continue to be. In fact, a lady friend and I recently crawled into the supposedly-haunted cemetery near Chicago known as "Monks Castle" one night after the opera, squirming under the gates in evening clothes and opera gown, just to walk and watch the moon.

For a lot of people it's a pose or fad or phase, but as the charming Ms. Fernande (loved your story, Madame) so cannily points out, if you've really got the Goth Gene, it's with you for life, and then some.

Blah blah blah! Never mind me - I'm really thrilled that all of you have piped up so far! I was rather concerned that all I would hear upon asking this question was the chirping of crickets. I really hope we'll hear more stories, particularly from some of the folks who made me wonder about this in the first place. So I'll do a rare thing and pipe down, fold my hands, and see who comes out and admits they still wear black on the inside.

T.

M Tatterscratch- you are not the only one with cemetary love! I love you comments, and I agree-, I think some people are just born with a love of the beauty of decay- or at least the dark romanticism of it all-

You know its funny- but I still have several goth-y hobbies that I keep up.
I collect Victorian Funeralia.
I'm also into absinthe- especially Swiss!
I have several analog synthesizers (for those days that I want to pretend I'm Peter Murphy)
Still have an alarming amount of velvet cloaks and victorian mourning capes for a single person. heh

. One of my fondest memories of one of the first days people were allowed back into the city, I wondered around St Louis #1 cemetary, and remarked internally- in the total blackness and lit by only moonlight (there was no electricity in the whole city) I was seeing the city as though it might have looked in the 18th century. It was quite beautiful. then I had to high tail it outta there- wasn't safe!
oooooooh how goth of me !

Lolita- somehow I knew under that platinum gorgeousness there was a GOTH girl!
I have RADAR! heh.

Camille: I figure if you were into EBM and Swedish you probably were into Covenant? Eskil is an old chum of mine- are they still doing music? I loved to dance to their tunes--man, that was a long time ago!

 

[Woland]

Yours truly back in -83.
Close to a 100 lbs ago...

Was active in the early "synth-scene".
The cover of my first single:

Cheers!

 

[Amy Jeanne]

I liked old things as a small child, then in the 80s and 90s I was into the alternative and punk scenes -- I liked any type of music that fit under this umbrella at one point or another.

I always really liked the 80s synthpop and New Romantic stuff -- I'm sure that influenced me all these years and I didn't even know it!

It was actually the 1998 mainstream swing revival that sparked my re-interest in all things vintage!

 

[Fleur De Guerre]

I was never an actual Goth, but I was into grunge and then indie from the age of about 12, and got into heavy metal at 16. I have been firmly "alternative" from then onwards, I've had long dreadlocks, short bleached hair, a mohawk, and wore a sort of feminine heavy metal fan crossed with skateboarder sort of look until about 21 when I cut a Bettie Page fringe and started dressing more rockabilly. I guess I knew I'd "grown up" when I started wearing trousers that fitted me properly, and ditched the big sneakers I used to love. However, my mother always hoped I'd grow *out* of looking different to the norm, and as I told her when I was 16, I never have!

My personal vintage look is a grown up "alternative" one. I do go for a more glamorous, I suppose burlesquey sort of look, rather than spot-on period correctness (though I do try it for nights out etc). I've always been into grooming though, even as a grungy dreadhead I kept my hair, clothes and makeup looking nice. Now I have a variety of fairly elaborate hairstyles, striking, unusual vintage/retro clothes (or clothes bought from the high street worn in unusual vintagey combinations), cat-eye glasses etc etc. People stare at me wherever I go (I don't notice, but my mum always comments on it) but I am used to it by now! I don't dress like this to make people stare, it's just that though I have grown out of baggy jeans, I could never dress "normal" and this is my much more flattering, feminine and classy rebellion against the norm!

 

[Camille]

Fernande: Ooh! Of course I was in to Covenant, back in the days! It's been a few years since I was in the EBM-scene, however, so I have no idea what bands are still active, unfortunately.

I've had the privilage of watching the Swedish goth-scene changing over the past years, seeing it go from Victorian-style goth back with laces, corsets and vampire-wannabees in the mid ninetees to an 80's postpunk-goth in the late ninetees/millenium. What really confuses me, though, is how they look in Sweden today. It only makes me feel old, because I can't figure out what bands they listen to, or what clubs they go too. [huh] The tiny goths in Sweden these days looks like something that emerged from mushing Marilyn Manson with a Japanese schoolgirl together, and it's not even Harajuku! Agh! I'm feeling old and confused!

And as I like visual stuff, here's me back in my postpunk days:

 

[Edward]

I became interested in goth via punk..... I never really was much of a one for the music side of the goth scene, and in any case never had much exposure to it having been the wrong age at the wrong time and in the wrong place..... I guess some of my wardrobe has a sort of industrial goth look, but that's again a gothier end of the punk thing rather than anything else. I've become more interested in recent years in getting hold of some old-style, traditionalist gothwear: only financial factors hold that back at present. My interest in the sort of vintage wear that we discuss on this site somewhere along the lines originated with my punk mentality too.... being everso slightly the wrong side of 25, I can't work the punk look as easily as often as I used to be able to - in particular, while the bondage trousers still come out on occasion, the drainpipes have alas been retired as I'm rather too rotund to look credible in them any more. Like so many old punks, entering my thirties coincided with an increased interest in the rockabilly / psychobilly end of the spectrum, and so that aesthtic informs a lot of my tastes now. I stumbled across the FL looking for more on that, and I have ended up with a strong interest also in 30s and 40s styles. I'm now slowly working my regular wardrobe towards a Casual = 50s/rockabilly, Smart-non-suit = 30s / 40s, Suits 30s & 40s, eveningwear = 30s kind of slant. Still a long way to go before I'm happy with it, but it's all money, isn't it!! I like having the option of different looks and periods - I'd go mad living with a "uniform."

I've always been wilfully different too. Would be the first time I wore a collar and tie, with a Fedora to a Sex Pistosl gig, or a Monkees T shirt to Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Mix it up, do your own thing - never be dictated to. Don't Dream It, Be It an' aw that....

 

[Edward]

If you however mean the Hot Topic sort of gothic...

Hot Topic is about as goth as Avril Lavigne is punk rock. lol

 

[wedding belle]

Ah yes the goth years....

I had quite an affection for goth way back when, only heightened by my mother's horror on my return visists from university. However, I am getting to relive those balmy days again, my 12 year old has developed a quite fantastic goth/punk mix look and is in her elemnet when we off and buy some lovley stuff to add ribbons and chains to. Her father is less than impressed so all is as it should be

 

[Liz]

Basically, though, I imagine there have always been people with what I call "The Goth Gene", people who are more in love with the splendour of decay than the beauty of rebirth. I saw a news article yesterday that stated in incredulous and half-mocking tones that certain cities in England are in the process of promoting their large old cemeteries as recreational areas. When I heard it, I thought, "Now why didn't someone do that EARLIER?!? I spent much of my twenties sneaking into Richmond's ancient Hollywood Cemetery at risk of life, limb, and clean police blotter, just to spend an evening in the place I considered (and still do consider) among the most beautiful and peaceful on earth, and now they INVITE people in!

Call it strange, but it's an attractive and very real thing, and will probably continue to be. In fact, a lady friend and I recently crawled into the supposedly-haunted cemetery near Chicago known as "Monks Castle" one night after the opera, squirming under the gates in evening clothes and opera gown, just to walk and watch the moon.

I completely agree with this -- I especially love your thoughts about the splendour of decay vs. the beauty of rebirth. I love old cemeteries, and just last weekend I was oohing and ahhing over '30s funeral photos with a friend of mine. I live about an hour away from Chicago -- now I'll have to try to get to that cemetery! (I've been fascinated by anything haunted for as long as I can remember.)

 

[Camille]

Hot Topic is about as goth as Avril Lavigne is punk rock. lol

I'm feeling stupid here. What's Hot Topic?

 

[Lady Day]

I'm feeling stupid here. What's Hot Topic?

Think Urban Outfitters for the original Shabby Sheik; a focus grouped pill box repo store of a subculture/scene homogenized and packaged for the safe mainstream.

Yeah, thats about it.

LD

 

[Camille]

Think Urban Outfitters for the original Shabby Sheik; a focus grouped pill box repo store of a subculture/scene homogenized and packaged for the safe mainstream.

Yeah, thats about it.

LD

Oh, then I get it. We have the same kind of store in Sweden, called Carlings.

 

[Viola]

I like the '20s-influenced goth, kinda Clara Bow/Louise Brooks looks. And the pinup/burlesque styles. Dita, for instance, is pretty awesome to me. Victorian and steampunk aspects are also very appealling.

But the same things that kept me from building a good vintage wardrobe kept me from doing too much of the goth thing: money and lack of sewing ability. You really seem to need one or the other.

I'd like to build up the look a little bit at a time, though right now I'm not going to be dyeing my hair or tweezing my eyebrows to oblivion. '40s pinup styles could be a go, though.

 

[M Tatterscratch]

But the same things that kept me from building a good vintage wardrobe kept me from doing too much of the goth thing: money and lack of sewing ability. You really seem to need one or the other.

That was one of the wonderful things about original Goth, Ms. Viola - People put together wonderful outfits from thrift store Victoriana because that's all they could afford. Some thrifty girl would put together black crinolines with old, torn black tights and worn-out granny boots, throw a black camisole and shawl over it, and top it off with a threadbare derby and black dress gloves and, voila! The Broken Doll look of classic Goth was born. Menswear was even easier...

Woland, what a splendid face! Very Liquid Sky. Any MP3s of your sound floating about, by chance?

Ms. Camille, I've always described the shift you've noticed as the transition from Broken China Doll to Ripped Raggedy Ann. Hm - Are there Raggedy Anns in Sweden?

Ahh, a Monkees tee to Nick Cave! Now that's turning the tables, Edward...

Ms. Liz - The actual name of the place is St. James Sag Cemetery. However, it's called Monk's Castle because of a phantom horde of robed figures seen trooping in a ghostly parade on the grounds. If you go, there's room to get under the front gate, and after that, bear left to get to the grounds where the manifestations are said to be seen...

Actually, Ms. Fernande, one of my first intended stops in Paris is the Hotel Royal Fromentin, which was once an infamous anticlerical club, and now boasts an honest-to-badness, old-fashioned absinthe bar. If only the Grand Guignol was still in operation! I've been shoring up my Edwardian wardrobe lately, too - If you look in the "Show Us Your Purchases - Men!" thread, you'll see the extent of my foolishness. And as for funeral trappings, I have a beautiful metal "Funeral Coach" sign from a Victorian hearse bolted into the rear window of my little black 2-seater...

I'm afraid I don't have a full photograph of myself in my ensemble, Jovan. I may have some back home, but I'm not much for photos - I always tell people that I don't show up on film. The rest of the kit, however, consists of a very long black opera coat which makes me look like I'm floating, a black, velvet-collared waistcoat, black wide-leg trousers, and black gloves. For now, all I can provide is a slightly larger photograph:

Please pardon the skewed cravat.


Ladies and Gents, it's been WONDERFUL to hear all of your stories so far! Do tell us some more strange stories of your pasts and presents, if you'd like - I, for one, am an eager audience. I hope we'll hear from more of the Loungers, as well. I may post a realization I had as a direct result of this thread while on the way to the office this morning, but for now I'll go against my nature and shut up and listen again...

T.

*Rests exposed jawbone on yellowed metacarpals and listens intently*

 

[Jovan]

Nice. I love your new avatar as well... you remind me of Edgar Allan Poe. Very nice looking 'stache there, too. As for the skewedness... that's an occasional symptom of things that aren't pre-tied. Meaning things that actually have character.

 

[TheKitschGoth]

Has anyone besides myself and, I presume, Ms. TheKitschGoth, come to Vintage through the Gothic style/subculture?

I don't know if I got to vintage via Goth. Not directly anyway.

But I've always been used to drawing attention to myself through what I wear, and putting more effort into hair/makeup/clothes than the average person, so vintage style feels natural to me. Though a little more mature than my goth look.

I never got the Victoriana look, I prefer the Batcave style of dress. It always seemed more fun.

Viola > I always found the goth look really cheap to achieve. Possibly because I didn't care for PVC or velvet.

Here's my Goth look (which I still love to dress like, just not as often - the music's more important to me anyway)

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

Hot Topic is about as goth as Avril Lavigne is punk rock. lol

hahahahahah

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Never thought I'd see a discussion about Goth style on here, let alone one with such a positive tone! It's refreshing, really. I'm not a Goth, never have been... unless you count my "Ian Malcolm/Jeff Goldblum phase" when I wore all black with a black leather blazer for about two years. lol If I had the money and the right build, I might be a Victorian, though.
Anyway, I've always found the Goth look to be interesting and very exprssive. I hope more people share pics!
NB

 

[vonwotan]

I generally avoid the topic but this thread brings back some wonderful memories of being a teen in the East Village and surrounds during the early and mid eighties. If you have access to a copy of So 80s by Patrick McMullan you can see pictures from my youth, one unatributed photograph of me (thankfully) and many of my close friends from school and from the clubs we frequented. Definitely a wide variety of goth, punk, skinhead, etc. styles all around.

The greatest source for many of the outfits in the clubs were the thrift shops of lower Manhattan and a handful of inexpensive local clothing shops. I was reading a style article in the NYT (?). The author was remembering those days and the inexpensive apartments, clothing, etc. that have been replaced with some very pricey but beautiful clothing in those same small shops...

 

[RIOT]

Interesting thread. I personally have never been a goth or anything like that, but I've dated a couple in my HS years, does that count for something? I've been a skinhead since I was 14 back in '83 till I "retired" from it in '98. But real cool, I like goths :eusa_clap