Vintage Things That Have Disappeared In Your Lifetime?

[tonyb]

We have a "day old bread" outlet store in town here -- it's not in the gentrified section, but those who use it know where to find it. It's a real treat when the expired fruit pies show up.

A couple of the theatre kids used to work second jobs at a now-defunct donut shop -- not a franchise, a real neighborhood donuttery -- and every Saturday they'd bring me a greasy brown paper bag full of culls, broken pieces, and day-olds. Ambrosia.

Most of the bakery clearance stores I’ve ever visited (as I have on innumerable occasions during this life of many lean periods) are situated near the large commercial bakeries where the product is made. Districts with that sort of industry are where you find the less-pricy housing, usually.

Bakery outlets and yuppies rarely mix. Indeed, in my experience, the forces of gentrification are more prone than most to looking down their noses at that sort of food and the people who consume it. It ain’t organic, ain’t artisanal. Much of it is loaded with sugar and fat and a bunch of other things you’d be better without. But it has that one great virtue.

 

[LostInTyme]

It tastes REALLY GOOD!

 

[Turnip]

Neighborhood bakeries usually run a small range of day olds at this end, often grey and black breads and some sweets as well. But the mass of those products gets donated to food banks meanwhile or recycled, firing the bakery ovens or used in bio gas production to supply small, local block power plants with.

 

[BobHufford]

Karastan wool rugs made on Axminster looms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/05/style/oriental-rugs-carpet-karastan-where-made.html

The label from our late 1930s (we think) Karastan rug. We have a matching 2.2 x 4 runner as well.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^

Karastan wool rugs made on Axminster looms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/05/style/oriental-rugs-carpet-karastan-where-made.html

The label from our late 1930s (we think) Karastan rug. We have a matching 2.2 x 4 runner as well.

View attachment 343432

View attachment 343433

That’s one fine piece of journalism. (It was behind a paywall at the NYT [I must’ve hit my monthly limit], but was picked up by the Chicago Tribune, where I read it.)

The writer’s personal connection to the story brought home what such a plant closing does to a small community. In the few minutes it took to read it, I learned about the technology involved in making the rugs and the history of the production and marketing and the impact on the lives of the humans involved.

She also cast light on how a market was created for a machine-made “oriental” rug. As a fan of “real” Persian and Afghani rugs, I am all too familiar with how perplexing and intimidating the industry can be. Prices are all over the map. Shifty characters abound. The Internet has made more reliable information more accessible, but even the experts don’t necessarily agree, especially on the tribal rugs (my particular interest), which differ not only from region to region but from village to village, with a not insignificant degree of cross-pollination.

And then there are rugs of Persian design hand-knotted in India. So yeah, they’re “real” hand-knotted rugs, but they’re still fakes. In recent years we’ve seen thoroughly worn rugs over-dyed (greens and blues are most prevalent) and selling for as much or more than rugs in far better condition.

I have befriended a couple of people in the biz, and I know that they are as put off by the hucksters as I am. It is not uncommon for retailers to post prices twice or more what a comparable piece would sell for across town. “Rug merchant” is something of a pejorative, much to the chagrin of the straight shooters in the industry.

With Karastan the buyer knows what he’s getting. And for the mass of people just looking for something pretty to put on their floors, it fits the bill nicely.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^^
I looked at the recent offerings carrying the Karastan name.

Jayzus, that kinda money for a rug made from recycled soda pop bottles? It really ain’t the same product as the wool rugs made on the Axminster looms in Eden, NC. Not even close.

 

[BobHufford]

^^^^^^
I looked at the recent offerings carrying the Karastan name.

Jayzus, that kinda money for a rug made from recycled soda pop bottles? It really ain’t the same product as those made on the Axminster looms in Eden, NC. Not even close.

The asking price on some vintage ones can exceed a sanity check.

Happy with the $100 we paid for most recent pair from the same era.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^
That’s nuts. I’ll keep an eye on that, just to see if someone is foolish enough to pay anything approaching that kinda scratch.

Real hand-knotted wool tribal rugs from “the orient” can be had for less than the prices of those new synthetic fiber rugs carrying the Karastan name.

I don’t know if the market for the wool Axminster-loomed rugs dwindled (doubtful) or if the present owners of the Karastan brand name determined that they could make a lesser product and sell it for about the same price (likelier, I think).

I see the current product offerings and I shake my head. There are some made to look worn in places. It’s akin to “distressed” blue jeans and kitchen cabinets and electric guitars. I’m obviously not their target consumer.

 

[belfastboy]

^^^^^


That’s one fine piece of journalism. (It was behind a paywall at the NYT [I must’ve hit my monthly limit], but was picked up by the Chicago Tribune, where I read it.)

The writer’s personal connection to the story brought home what such a plant closing does to a small community. In the few minutes it took to read it, I learned about the technology involved in making the rugs and the history of the production and marketing and the impact on the lives of the humans involved.

She also cast light on how a market was created for a machine-made “oriental” rug. As a fan of “real” Persian and Afghani rugs, I am all too familiar with how perplexing and intimidating the industry can be. Prices are all over the map. Shifty characters abound. The Internet has made more reliable information more accessible, but even the experts don’t necessarily agree, especially on the tribal rugs (my particular interest), which differ not only from region to region but from village to village, with a not insignificant degree of cross-pollination.

And then there are rugs of Persian design hand-knotted in India. So yeah, they’re “real” hand-knotted rugs, but they’re still fakes. In recent years we’ve seen thoroughly worn rugs over-dyed (greens and blues are most prevalent) and selling for as much or more than rugs in far better condition.

I have befriended a couple of people in the biz, and I know that they are as put off by the hucksters as I am. It is not uncommon for retailers to post prices twice or more what a comparable piece would sell for across town. “Rug merchant” is something of a pejorative, much to the chagrin of the straight shooters in the industry.

With Karastan the buyer knows what he’s getting. And for the mass of people just looking for something pretty to put on their floors, it fits the bill nicely.

We just replaced our wall to wall carpet in the upstairs with Karastan carpet. Still top of the line stuff. I have purchased hand made rugs in N Africa and Pakistan and the experience was just as much 'fun' as owning the rug......but damn it was hard work. Took a goodly chunk of the day to purchase 3 carpets, many cups of tea, many times standing up and walking out only to be coaxed back for more tea ....more discussion "my friend". Buying from a rug merchant is a game you cannot win.....only hope to minimize your losses. His turf, his battle, his experience......a tourist such as myself stands little chance but if you have grit, patience, willingness to walk away without a rug and a large bladder to hold your tea you can at least get a decent deal.

We have a 9' x 12' 'oriental' carpet in our dining room. It is 100% wool, machine made in Belgium, in a Persian design. Lovely rug and while not handmade still looks damn good and to all but the expert eye would pass as a legit Persian rug.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^
I’ve never been to Iran, nor Turkey, nor North Africa, nor Pakistan, nor …

A friend — a fellow of Iranian descent (he was born in Iran but his parents hustled him and themselves out of there right after the revolution, when he was kid) who lived in Germany for a few years before getting over here to God’s Country — buys rugs by the sea container load. His family here and back in the old country has been in the trade for generations. He and his dad, a fellow almost exactly my age, have a retail space in an “arts” district. (That’s where the money is, I guess.) Relatives in Georgia (state of, not the country of) do the same.

The market for genuine “oriental” (the term is falling out of fashion) rugs has flipped in recent years. Used to be that the more ornate, more finely knotted “city” rugs were preferred over the coarser, more whimsical “tribal” rugs. Almost every fake oriental rug I’ve come across is in a city rug style. Maybe that will change, now that people like me, who prefer the tribal rugs, are more plentiful these days.

I’d wager that I can buy genuine hand-knotted oriental rugs here, from the guy who buys them by the container load, for less than I would pay on my own in Iran, or Turkey, or Afghanistan. Seriously, the genuine article is often available at a lower cost than a Karastan, or some Belgian-made rug. Those fakes might be high-quality rugs (and may not be; I’ve seen some real junk, too), and I’m not one to turn up my nose, but I gotta believe that the market for them exists in no small part because the world of “real” oriental rugs can be so frustrating for us Americans (and Canadians) to navigate.

 

[Zombie_61]

The asking price on some vintage ones can exceed a sanity check...

$9,500 for a lousy used area rug??? Some people truly do have more money than brains.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^
That’s a pretty darned big rug (10’6” by 18’) and there are Karastan aficionados, even though the rugs are machine made. (Add one more item to John Huston’s list of things that get respectable if they last long enough.) But even so, more than a couple G’s is getting to be more than anyone should pay. And this person is asking $9,500? More power to ’em, I suppose. One born every minute, etc.

A friend bought a fourplex in a popular tourist town in the Southwest. In one of the units a previous occupant had left behind a Navajo rug. Friend had rug appraised. As he put it, you could buy a low-mileage late-model car for what that rug would fetch.

Another friend has a $30K Persian rug on his living room floor. He doesn’t wear shoes in the house. He has no pets and his children are grown and have left the nest.

Me, I wear shoes in the house. I have two dogs and a cat. And 20-some tribal rugs, none of which is particularly valuable. They have irregularities (not the work of the most masterful artisans) and most show signs of wear. I call it “character,” and not ironically. I actually prefer the look of them over the museum-worthy pieces.

 

[LostInTyme]

I live in SW Pennsylvania. This is not an area that has much interest in Oriental Rugs. About 20 years ago, I purchased some very nice rugs at an estate auction. I got six rugs of various sizes (largest being 15 x 20). I don't know anything about these types of rugs, but for less than a hundred dollars, I figured I couldn't go too far wrong. I gave five of them away to relatives and kept one for myself. We have it in a small room and it get lots of traffic and still looks great.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^
That’s quite the score, even if the rugs are machine made. All the better, of course, if they’re hand-knotted.

Another vintage thing that has (almost) disappeared is the linoleum “rug,” although a quick search shows that similar things are still being made. I recall seeing sheet linoleum or something similar, printed with a Persian rug-like pattern, in lower-end housing when I was a kid. It was glued down, typically.

If I were to come across a vintage example, I’d give preserving it a good effort.

 

[LostInTyme]

Linoleum, congolium and the like were replaced by vinyl flooring and subsequently renamed sheet goods in the flooring industry. But for the changing materials' components, it's all the same stuff. A somewhat less expensive means to cover large and high traffic areas. It is easy to clean and maintain. And, for the most part, it looks nice.

 

[Tiki Tom]

Regarding oriental rugs, I bought my first one (5 ft by 8 ft) when I was stationed at a tiny listening post in Turkey in 1980. Forty years later, it still looks like new. I just had it cleaned in prep for yet another move. Also, as a present to myself, recently bought two Large Persian carpets made in Isfahan. I bought them “slightly used”… So beautiful and a joy to walk on barefoot. They are 20 years old but, again, look like new. Serious quality. I’m not really a guy who is known for spending money on extravagances, but these seemed well worth it.

 

[Al 916]

Only because I recently found my old one in Mothers garage and passed it to my son to confuse him and my grandson.

Crystal Sets

 

[Al 916]

Only because I recently found my old one in Mothers garage and passed it to my son to confuse him and my grandson.

Crystal Sets

 

[tonyb]

Regarding oriental rugs, I bought my first one (5 ft by 8 ft) when I was stationed at a tiny listening post in Turkey in 1980. Forty years later, it still looks like new. I just had it cleaned in prep for yet another move. Also, as a present to myself, recently bought two Large Persian carpets made in Isfahan. I bought them “slightly used”… So beautiful and a joy to walk on barefoot. They are 20 years old but, again, look like new. Serious quality. I’m not really a guy who is known for spending money on extravagances, but these seemed well worth it.

Most of my rugs were used when they came my way. On my coffee table (an old Hartmann “Gibraltarized” travel trunk) is a section of a late 19th-century rug, a gift from a friend in the business. This friend, the fellow who buys rugs by the container load, invariably gets some with moth damage or stains or other problems that are either unfixable or not worth the cost of fixing. So he turns the good sections into pillows and the like. I have a piece that serves as a seat cover in my Toyota. You just don’t throw such things away.

The wall-to-wall carpeting in my basement short-term rental unit was pretty well worn when we bought this place, going on six years ago. Replacing it would cost a few grand. I had it professionally cleaned and now most of it is covered in furniture and oriental rugs anyway.

Check out the Pazyryk rug. The thing is 2,400 years old and doesn’t differ greatly from tribal rugs made in recent years.

 

[LizzieMaine]

^^^^^
That’s quite the score, even if the rugs are machine made. All the better, of course, if they’re hand-knotted.

Another vintage thing that has (almost) disappeared is the linoleum “rug,” although a quick search shows that similar things are still being made. I recall seeing sheet linoleum or something similar, printed with a Persian rug-like pattern, in lower-end housing when I was a kid. It was glued down, typically.

If I were to come across a vintage example, I’d give preserving it a good effort.

I have one, "an Armstrong Quaker Rug," under my kitchen table, printed with a '30s style geometric pattern. It's worn quite well over the decades except for the part under the cat litter box.