Vintage Things That Have Disappeared In Your Lifetime?

[Big Bertie]

Service of course has mostly gone to pot. It's been 30 years or so since any petrol stations employed pump attendants, and the supermarket system is just about universal - even at Fortnum's. Railway porters are a thing of legend - even hotel porters are few and far between. The Chinese laundry shut up shop in about 1962, along with delivery boys on bikes, most fishmongers and ironmongers, as well as old-fashioned banks. What else will become extinct? Cutlery? Bookshops probably.

 

[Wally_Hood]

Service of course has mostly gone to pot. It's been 30 years or so since any petrol stations employed pump attendants, and the supermarket system is just about universal - even at Fortnum's. Railway porters are a thing of legend - even hotel porters are few and far between. The Chinese laundry shut up shop in about 1962, along with delivery boys on bikes, most fishmongers and ironmongers, as well as old-fashioned banks. What else will become extinct? Cutlery? Bookshops probably.

Try Oregon; by law, you cannot fuel your own tank, it's done by an attendant.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Service of course has mostly gone to pot. It's been 30 years or so since any petrol stations employed pump attendants, and the supermarket system is just about universal - even at Fortnum's. Railway porters are a thing of legend - even hotel porters are few and far between. The Chinese laundry shut up shop in about 1962, along with delivery boys on bikes, most fishmongers and ironmongers, as well as old-fashioned banks. What else will become extinct? Cutlery? Bookshops probably.

10-15 years ago there were at least a dozen good secondhand bookstores around here. Now there's only three. Among the ones that are gone is one that had first opened in 1935.

 

[Big Bertie]

People spending too much time browsing the internet, that's the problem.

 

[kiwilrdg]

In Newport News the Libraries are cutting the number of books in the stacks so they can concentrate on computers and e-readers

 

[Dixie_Amazon]

I worked at a new or used independent bookstore. Profit margins in the book business are small and the big box book retailers killed it and all but one of the other independent book sellers in Baton Rouge. There are still two used bookstores.

 

[Edward]

10-15 years ago there were at least a dozen good secondhand bookstores around here. Now there's only three. Among the ones that are gone is one that had first opened in 1935.

I used to buy a lot of books second hand. I don't so much any more as I'm a] lazy and b] I can typically find the same books, new, as cheap in the supermarket or online. It's not ideal, but that's the way of things. DVD rental shops are fast disappearing over here as the discs themselves are now, a couple of months after initial release, often available for less than the price a cheap two night rental used to be. I'm sure people in general do read less than would have been the case pre-TV and whatever, but I do believe the lowering of prices of new goods has maybe more to do with it. Most folks will opt to buy new over used if the same item is available at the same price.

 

[Edward]

10-15 years ago there were at least a dozen good secondhand bookstores around here. Now there's only three. Among the ones that are gone is one that had first opened in 1935.

I used to buy a lot of books second hand. I don't so much any more as I'm a] lazy and b] I can typically find the same books, new, as cheap in the supermarket or online. It's not ideal, but that's the way of things. DVD rental shops are fast disappearing over here as the discs themselves are now, a couple of months after initial release, often available for less than the price a cheap two night rental used to be. I'm sure people in general do read less than would have been the case pre-TV and whatever, but I do believe the lowering of prices of new goods has maybe more to do with it. Most folks will opt to buy new over used if the same item is available at the same price.

In Newport News the Libraries are cutting the number of books in the stacks so they can concentrate on computers and e-readers

Much as, all else being equal, I prefer a "real" book over an eBook (my Kindle is a way of taking books on the move when they would otherwise be impossible, not a replacement for them), I can see the sense in this. Libraries are, often as not, up against the wall funding-wise, and if an eBook means they can loan multiple copies at once much more cheaply than maintaining hard copies, it makes sense. Ultimately, the most important thing is that people have access to and do access the material made available by the library...

I worked at a new or used independent bookstore. Profit margins in the book business are small and the big box book retailers killed it and all but one of the other independent book sellers in Baton Rouge. There are still two used bookstores.

Independents certainly have a lot of cultural value. If, as is hardly inconceivable, one supplier, Amazon, say, totally dominate the book market we will find free expression could well be limited by one company's decisions on what they will or will not supply. This may mean the loss of ready availability of works of significant historical interest (Mein Kampf, for instance) because the retailer wishes not to court controversy, or otherwise important or challenging works being dropped in favour of high volume unit shifters such as Fifty Shades of Grey. Capitalism could well kill culture in the end.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

Try Oregon; by law, you cannot fuel your own tank, it's done by an attendant.

New Jersey, too.

 

[Big Bertie]

I worked at a new or used independent bookstore. Profit margins in the book business are small and the big box book retailers killed it and all but one of the other independent book sellers in Baton Rouge. There are still two used bookstores.

Independents certainly have a lot of cultural value. If, as is hardly inconceivable, one supplier, Amazon, say, totally dominate the book market we will find free expression could well be limited by one company's decisions on what they will or will not supply. This may mean the loss of ready availability of works of significant historical interest (Mein Kampf, for instance) because the retailer wishes not to court controversy, or otherwise important or challenging works being dropped in favour of high volume unit shifters such as Fifty Shades of Grey. Capitalism could well kill culture in the end.

Publishers in the UK used to have a system of retail price maintenance, which allowed small booksellers to make a realistic profit. There are arguments for and against RPM, but the result of making it illegal will probably be, as Edward suggests, the creation of an unhealthy monopoly.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I worked at a new or used independent bookstore. Profit margins in the book business are small and the big box book retailers killed it and all but one of the other independent book sellers in Baton Rouge. There are still two used bookstores.

And even the big box book retailers have been struggling for years. Look what happened to Borders which I liked better than Barnes & Noble.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Part of the problem is the kind of books that dominate in the bookstores -- yellow political screeds, navel-gazing self-help books, exploitation biographies of second-rate celebrities, and ground-out formula fiction. Walk in to any chain bookstore and that's the stuff you see. Is there any of that stuff you'd want to *own,* to take home and keep in an honored place on your bookshelf? A disposable generation produces disposable literature, so maybe having bookstores go out of business is just cutting a step out of the process: the books will get thrown away before you have a chance to buy them, saving you the trouble.

 

[1961MJS]

Part of the problem is the kind of books that dominate in the bookstores -- yellow political screeds, navel-gazing self-help books, exploitation biographies of second-rate celebrities, and ground-out formula fiction. Walk in to any chain bookstore and that's the stuff you see. Is there any of that stuff you'd want to *own,* to take home and keep in an honored place on your bookshelf? A disposable generation produces disposable literature, so maybe having bookstores go out of business is just cutting a step out of the process: the books will get thrown away before you have a chance to buy them, saving you the trouble.

Plus 1, there are hordes of "ground out formula fiction." books in the half price stores which at least CAN be less expensive than buying from Amazon at $4.00, $0.02 for the book and $3.98 for shipping. I DO like to own Tom Clancy's books and several cowboy books of various types, but I've been cutting back. I need to buy too many book shelves. I only buy if the local library doesn't own the books I want. I think I'll start donating when I get finished with them.

later

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

There's a case before the Supreme Court that unfortunately may have a far reaching impact on the used book business as well as many other businesses.

On October 29 the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case of Kirtsaeng vs. John Wiley & Sons. Supap Kirtsaeng is an immigrant from Thailand who came to the US in 1997 to study at Cornell University. While there he noted how very expensive textbooks were in this country compared to his native Thailand. So the enterprising young man prevailed upon friends and relations back home to send him textbooks which he turned around and sold on eBay. What started out as a way to pay for his schooling became a thriving business. According to some sources it was upwards of a $1.2 million business which eventually caught the attention of the publisher, John Wiley & Sons, who sued Kirtsaeng for copyright infringement on the grounds that the textbooks sold by Kirtsaeng were not intended for distribution or sale in the United States.

In his defense Kirtsaeng invoked the First Sale Doctrine, a legal principle which recognizes the right of the buyer of copyrighted materials such as books or music to dispose of it as he chooses without permission of the copyright holder whose right of ownership is limited solely to the initial or first sale to the buyer. Wiley countered with an argument that the First Sale Doctrine only applies to goods manufactured in the United States.. In the end Wiley won the suit and was awarded $600,000 in damages. The case was appealed but was upheld by the US 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals and now is in the hands of the Supreme Court.

And because most things today are now made in other countries, a Supreme Court ruling upholding the suit can give manufacturers virtual lifetime control over the resale of their products. A broad interpretation of such a ruling can potentially impact sales of used goods on eBay, Craigslist, yard sales and thrift stores, all of which could require permission from the copyright holders each and every time used goods are resold. It can also affect a library's ability to lend books. Even selling your car could be affected because much of the software used in the computer systems of newer cars is copyrighted. And if all that wasn't bad enough, such a ruling can even provide companies with yet more of an incentive/justification to move operations overseas, this time in the interest of copyright protection.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

I'd read about this, but I don't see that working out for Wiley etc. It would kill off most of Amazon.com, and a lot of book stores. People won't like music that much anymore if it's pay per view for a 3 minute song.

I was a Scout leader with a professional song writer and emotionally discussed the issue of resale of cassettes, CD's etc with music on them. He wanted to get paid EVERY TIME THE SONG WAS PLAYED. CD's would work 5 times, then you would get another one. I countered that I wasn't buying his song, I was buying the CD with the songs on it and if I had to pay EVERYTIME, there wouldn't be many times anymore.

His view was that every venue was like radio, he gets $5.00 every time the song is played on any station for the next 100 (or whatever it is) years. It may go through, but it will be cutting off your nose to spite your face. I know I would't buy another piece of electronic music, and far fewer DVD's. I might even be moved to purchase a keyboard (electric Piano).

Later

 

[sheeplady]

There's a case before the Supreme Court that unfortunately may have a far reaching impact on the used book business as well as many other businesses.

On October 29 the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case of Kirtsaeng vs. John Wiley & Sons. Supap Kirtsaeng is an immigrant from Thailand who came to the US in 1997 to study at Cornell University. While there he noted how very expensive textbooks were in this country compared to his native Thailand. So the enterprising young man prevailed upon friends and relations back home to send him textbooks which he turned around and sold on eBay. What started out as a way to pay for his schooling became a thriving business. According to some sources it was upwards of a $1.2 million business which eventually caught the attention of the publisher, John Wiley & Sons, who sued Kirtsaeng for copyright infringement on the grounds that the textbooks sold by Kirtsaeng were not intended for distribution or sale in the United States.

In his defense Kirtsaeng invoked the First Sale Doctrine, a legal principle which recognizes the right of the buyer of copyrighted materials such as books or music to dispose of it as he chooses without permission of the copyright holder whose right of ownership is limited solely to the initial or first sale to the buyer. Wiley countered with an argument that the First Sale Doctrine only applies to goods manufactured in the United States.. In the end Wiley won the suit and was awarded $600,000 in damages. The case was appealed but was upheld by the US 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals and now is in the hands of the Supreme Court.

And because most things today are now made in other countries, a Supreme Court ruling upholding the suit can give manufacturers virtual lifetime control over the resale of their products. A broad interpretation of such a ruling can potentially impact sales of used goods on eBay, Craigslist, yard sales and thrift stores, all of which could require permission from the copyright holders each and every time used goods are resold. It can also affect a library's ability to lend books. Even selling your car could be affected because much of the software used in the computer systems of newer cars is copyrighted. And if all that wasn't bad enough, such a ruling can even provide companies with yet more of an incentive/justification to move operations overseas, this time in the interest of copyright protection.

Now, that is just sad. Although, when I was an undergraduate student, I always had my friend from Singapore bring me back the textbooks I needed. I could get a lot of textbooks new for half the price I could get them used (this was before Amazon was big, so the only other choice was the school bookstore or buying off a friend.) My microbiology book cost me $30 from him, otherwise it would have been $70 used and over $150 new. They were always printed on the inside with something that amounted to "International copy not for sale in __________" or something like that.

 

[Wally_Hood]

Part of the problem is the kind of books that dominate in the bookstores -- yellow political screeds, navel-gazing self-help books, exploitation biographies of second-rate celebrities, and ground-out formula fiction. Walk in to any chain bookstore and that's the stuff you see. Is there any of that stuff you'd want to *own,* to take home and keep in an honored place on your bookshelf? A disposable generation produces disposable literature, so maybe having bookstores go out of business is just cutting a step out of the process: the books will get thrown away before you have a chance to buy them, saving you the trouble.

Hear, hear~

 

[Big Bertie]

Proper uniform seems to have gone by the board in my lifetime. Men (and women) in expensive, correctly fitted formal uniform were commonplace when I was growing up in the 1960s. Not just military personnel, but men and women in varied walks of life - the police, roadside rescue services, bus drivers and conductors, station masters and train guards, nurses, postal workers, airline pilots and cabin crew, even the clergy and workers with the electricity and gas boards, all wore dignified and sometimes elegant uniforms. With the exception of the cavalry and guards regiments, proper uniform has become a thing almost unknown, and most of these groups of workers now are dressed in utilitarian overalls and dayglo jackets. It might be argued that there was something excessively militaristic in so many uniforms, but I regret the change - it may be practical, but looks wrong.

 

[LizzieMaine]

For that matter, how about Scouts in uniform? In my Girl Scout days, everyone wore their uniforms to school on meeting days, and nobody would have thought to attend a meeting in ordinary clothes. Uniforms were always crisply ironed, insignia sewn on correctly, and even the socks were of the approved design. Nowadays, when you see them at the cookie-selling tables they're wearing ordinary clothes with a badge sash thrown over them, if that.

Boy Scouts are even worse -- when you see them in the parades they might be wearing a uniform shirt and a neckerchief with blue jeans, which is a hideous combination. And the shirt is usually untucked.

My generation had WW2 vets for scout leaders -- mine had been a WAC, and it showed -- and one thing they knew how to do is run a uniform inspection.

 

[m0nk]

For that matter, how about Scouts in uniform? In my Girl Scout days, everyone wore their uniforms to school on meeting days, and nobody would have thought to attend a meeting in ordinary clothes. Uniforms were always crisply ironed, insignia sewn on correctly, and even the socks were of the approved design. Nowadays, when you see them at the cookie-selling tables they're wearing ordinary clothes with a badge sash thrown over them, if that.

Boy Scouts are even worse -- when you see them in the parades they might be wearing a uniform shirt and a neckerchief with blue jeans, which is a hideous combination. And the shirt is usually untucked.

My generation had WW2 vets for scout leaders -- mine had been a WAC, and it showed -- and one thing they knew how to do is run a uniform inspection.

My son is in cub scouts now and I make sure that he's made up according to their class A uniform guidelines (which, yes, can include blue jeans instead of boy scout trousers, though I typically have him wear khakis as I think it looks better). He always wears his shirt, hat, neckerchief with holder, tied, and belt with all the belt loops. He has to be tucked in and buttons strait with his belt buckle and zipper (old military uniform habit of mine), and dressings on the shirt in order. But it also seems that he's the only one in the pack that dresses appropriately. The boy scout pack is a little better, but not much.