Vintage Things That Have Disappeared In Your Lifetime?

[Fading Fast]

The one and only time I visited the horse tracks was in Calif.
Place was called Santa Anita.
The crowds reminded me of the
ones at boxing matches.
I had no idea about betting but
just for kicks, I put a small amount to "win-show-place".
I won and got back quite a return.
I can imagine why folks get addicted.
I knew it was pure dumb luck
on my part.

Some sports are more of an acquired taste than others. Horse racing is one that requires time and study to really "get" it.

There is a tremendous amount to of nuance that goes into the strategy of horse racing that simply is not apparent in the way throwing a long pass in football, making a three point shot in basketball or hitting a home run are in those sports. And those sports have reasonably continuous action - horse racing is about 2 minutes of action every 30 or so minutes. If you aren't into the nuance of "studying" for the next race - it can quickly become boring.

But there is no reason to kid ourselves, horse racing, IMHO, was more popular when there were fewer gambling opportunities for the public - now that there are, less are wiling or care to devote the time to learning the sport.

 

[Inkstainedwretch]

The big interstate lotteries like Powerball and Mega Millions are fantasy machines. The odds of winning are infinitesimally, but not infinitely, small. Eventually, somebody wins, so why not me? If you buy your ticket ahead of time, then for three or four days you can legitimately fantasize what you're going to do with that half-billion-dollar jackpot. Even the smaller jackpots will amount to several million dollars, far more than most people will ever realize in their lifetimes. That is the appeal of the lottery. It legitimizes your otherwise baseless fantasies of wealth.

 

[Fading Fast]

The big interstate lotteries like Powerball and Mega Millions are fantasy machines. The odds of winning are infinitesimally, but not infinitely, small. Eventually, somebody wins, so why not me? If you buy your ticket ahead of time, then for three or four days you can legitimately fantasize what you're going to do with that half-billion-dollar jackpot. Even the smaller jackpots will amount to several million dollars, far more than most people will ever realize in their lifetimes. That is the appeal of the lottery. It legitimizes your otherwise baseless fantasies of wealth.

I agree whole heartedly. It is, basically, entertainment. For a buck or two, you can indulge your fantasies. No harm if you spend only money you can easily afford to lose and you realize you have a very, very, very, very, very small chance of wining big money. I thought NY had a great ad a few years back with the slogan "a dollar and a dream." That, IMHO, is what your dollar buys, the right to dream that you might win.

 

[vitanola]

I agree whole heartedly. It is, basically, entertainment. For a buck or two, you can indulge your fantasies. No harm if you spend only money you can easily afford to lose and you realize you have a very, very, very, very, very small chance of wining big money. I thought NY had a great ad a few years back with the slogan "a dollar and a dream." That, IMHO, is what your dollar buys, the right to dream that you might win.

The fantasies engendered by these immoral state lotteries also serve, I think, an important political purpose. Remember Steinbeck...

 

[LizzieMaine]

The big interstate lotteries like Powerball and Mega Millions are fantasy machines. The odds of winning are infinitesimally, but not infinitely, small. Eventually, somebody wins, so why not me? If you buy your ticket ahead of time, then for three or four days you can legitimately fantasize what you're going to do with that half-billion-dollar jackpot. Even the smaller jackpots will amount to several million dollars, far more than most people will ever realize in their lifetimes. That is the appeal of the lottery. It legitimizes your otherwise baseless fantasies of wealth.

I know it keeps me going. I did win a just-over-five-figure prize once, and it made a number of things possible for me that would not have otherwise been, so I can't kick too much about it. When I win the Powerball, I've got my plans all made, heheheheheh.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Some sports are more of an acquired taste than others. Horse racing is one that requires time and study to really "get" it.

There is a tremendous amount to of nuance that goes into the strategy of horse racing that simply is not apparent in the way throwing a long pass in football, making a three point shot in basketball or hitting a home run are in those sports. And those sports have reasonably continuous action - horse racing is about 2 minutes of action every 30 or so minutes. If you aren't into the nuance of "studying" for the next race - it can quickly become boring.

But there is no reason to kid ourselves, horse racing, IMHO, was more popular when there were fewer gambling opportunities for the public - now that there are, less are wiling or care to devote the time to learning the sport.

A lot of people are surprised to realize just how popular horse racing was in the Era -- it was the third most popular spectator sport in America, behind only baseball and boxing. The big annual races were major radio attractions, and the most successful horses were as well-known as Joe DiMaggio and Joe Louis. Pro football barely registered for most people, and didn't until the combination of television and gambling vaulted it into the big time in the late 1950s.

 

[Fading Fast]

The fantasies engendered by these immoral state lotteries also serve, I think, an important political purpose. Remember Steinbeck...

My take on lottery morality is (1) gambling is an individual choice, so people should be free to choose to do so or not even if it ruins them, but (2) if the society I live in decides that it is an immoral evil / that those vulnerable to it should be protected, then it should outlaw it, not absorb it as a monopoly into the state so that the state can then be the bookie (and at a lower payout to the poor than before and promoting it with gusto to suck more of the poor in).

Allow lotteries to be free enterprise (regulated for fraud, etc.) or outlaw them as immoral. State run ones - yea, I know the money goes to schools or pension or what have you which is hogwash as they could tax private lotteries (and how many times is the money diverted once some time has passed / how many frauds have been uncovered / not yet uncovered related to the money?) and, if it's truly evil, then why should the gov't have blood money on its hands? Building a school on the backs of impoverished families (if that's what gambling does) is no way to run a gov't with integrity.

 

[Fading Fast]

A lot of people are surprised to realize just how popular horse racing was in the Era -- it was the third most popular spectator sport in America, behind only baseball and boxing. The big annual races were major radio attractions, and the most successful horses were as well-known as Joe DiMaggio and Joe Louis. Pro football barely registered for most people, and didn't until the combination of television and gambling vaulted it into the big time in the late 1950s.

I'm close but definitely not spot on: in the Laura Hillenbrand book "Seabiscuit" (an outstanding Fedora Lounge read), she said that Seabiscuit had more news coverage than FDR, Louis or Ruth in some year in the '30s when the horse was at its peak of fame. Again, I'm doing this from a pretty old memory and I'm sure I'm messing it up a bit, but you get the point.

 

[vitanola]

My take on lottery morality is (1) gambling is an individual choice, so people should be free to choose to do so or not even if it ruins them, but (2) if the society I live in decides that it is an immoral evil / that those vulnerable to it should be protected, then it should outlaw it, not absorb it as a monopoly into the state so that the state can then be the bookie (and at a lower payout to the poor than before and promoting it with gusto to suck more of the poor in).

Allow lotteries to be free enterprise (regulated for fraud, etc.) or outlaw them as immoral. State run ones - yea, I know the money goes to schools or pension or what have you which is hogwash as they could tax private lotteries (and how many times is the money diverted once some time has passed / how many frauds have been uncovered / not yet uncovered related to the money?) and, if it's truly evil, then why should the gov't have blood money on its hands? Building a school on the backs of impoverished families (if that's what gambling does) is no way to run a gov't with integrity.

I agree with every point that you made in that post.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Yep, 1937-38. That was probably the peak period for the popularity of horse racing in the US. The broadcast of the 1938 Kentucky Derby scored a C. A. B. rating of 16.6 -- which was just a tenth of a point less than the final day of coverage of the Munich Conference that fall, a moment where the fate of the world hung in the balance, and a rating which topped FDR's 1939 State of the Union address by 0.3 of a point.

To give some additional perspective, the single most-listened-to radio broadcast of the 1930s was the second Louis-Schmeling fight on June 22, 1938, which scored a rating of 63.6 -- that's more than anything else in the decade. Not even the abdication of King Edward VIII topped that rating. The rating figures translate roughly into one million listeners per point, and the total population of the US in 1938 was about 130 million, which gives you an idea of just how impressive that statistic is. In terms of percentage of the total population, not even the Super Bowl today comes close.

 

[Fading Fast]

Yep, 1937-38. That was probably the peak period for the popularity of horse racing in the US. The broadcast of the 1938 Kentucky Derby scored a C. A. B. rating of 16.6 -- which was just a tenth of a point less than the final day of coverage of the Munich Conference that fall, a moment where the fate of the world hung in the balance, and a rating which topped FDR's 1939 State of the Union address by 0.3 of a point.

To give some additional perspective, the single most-listened-to radio broadcast of the 1930s was the second Louis-Schmeling fight on June 22, 1938, which scored a rating of 63.6 -- that's more than anything else in the decade. Not even the abdication of King Edward VIII topped that rating. The rating figures translate roughly into one million listeners per point, and the total population of the US in 1938 was about 130 million, which gives you an idea of just how impressive that statistic is. In terms of percentage of the total population, not even the Super Bowl today comes close.

Fantastic information and data - another example of why I'm a fan of Lizziepedia. There is a some logic to the second Louis-Schmeling fight being such an event as it really was both a sporting event and a political event, so it brought in two audience when both boxing the sport and global politics with Germany (represented by Scheming) at its fulcrum were at a fever pitch.

 

[LizzieMaine]

What's also interesting is that there were only three other broadcasts in the decade that topped a rating of 50 -- and all three of them were Joe Louis fights. There were "public gods" who strode the earth in the 1930s, and Joe Louis was one of them. Not even Ali at his peak ever topped his appeal. That he ended his life punch-drunk and drug-addicted, gladhanding at casinos to scratch out a living is one of the great personal tragedies of the 20th Century.

 

[basbol13]

What's also interesting is that there were only three other broadcasts in the decade that topped a rating of 50 -- and all three of them were Joe Louis fights. There were "public gods" who strode the earth in the 1930s, and Joe Louis was one of them. Not even Ali at his peak ever topped his appeal. That he ended his life punch-drunk and drug-addicted, gladhanding at casinos to scratch out a living is one of the great personal tragedies of the 20th Century.

Yeah, it's sad to see a person with such ability battling cocaine addiction and mental illness. He was committed to a psychiatric care unit in 1970, and later confined to a wheel chair in 1977. All due to CTE. but a lot of athletes suffer and have suffered from CTE. Brett Favre, Bernie Kosar, Sugar Ray Robinson, Reg Flemming, Dave Duerson and Junior Seau to name a few.

 

[tonyb]

What's also interesting is that there were only three other broadcasts in the decade that topped a rating of 50 -- and all three of them were Joe Louis fights. There were "public gods" who strode the earth in the 1930s, and Joe Louis was one of them. Not even Ali at his peak ever topped his appeal. That he ended his life punch-drunk and drug-addicted, gladhanding at casinos to scratch out a living is one of the great personal tragedies of the 20th Century.

Pretty well sums up why I both love and hate boxing.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Expanding casino gambling in my state is always an issue that raises a lot of debate. Preacher types love to weigh in on the morality of gambling, etc., but I try to take a more pragmatic approach.

The fact is that casinos pay taxes, a lot of taxes. Churches, on the other hand, do not: they enjoy tax exempt status. When it comes to getting roads paved, teachers hired, and other necessary things done, a casino is of more objective value than a church.

Perhaps people need both churches and casinos- for a variety of reasons- so it perhaps ought to be less of an antagonistic and more of a symbiotic relationship when it comes to legalized gambling.

 

[Zombie_61]

If for no other reason (like transporting people), elevated city trains had to exist to create the right shadows, lights and sounds for many film noir movies.

I've told this story here before, but when my wife and I married in 1981 we spent our honeymoon in Chicago so I could meet her "important" relatives who still lived there. One of her cousins was kind enough to give us a drive-through tour of downtown Chicago, and at one point he parked so we could get out and "get a feel" for the city's true atmosphere. It was night and he chose a street that was safe but not particularly well traveled, and it also happened to be right under a section of the elevated train tracks used by the Chicago Transit Authority. If he was trying to make an impression on me on my first trip to Chicago, he couldn't have done a better job (and I mean that in a good way). It was somewhat dirty and trash-strewn, lined with tall block wall buildings, and the streetlights cast shadows everywhere, but it was exactly how I expected Chicago to look and I had to keep reminding myself that I wasn't standing on a movie set. It was wonderful, and one of the reasons I enjoy visiting whenever circumstances permit.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Gambling in the form or lotteries and slot machines - where you have no ability to effect that outcome with skill or, really, strategy - are simply convoluted "machines" that take in a dollar and pay out less than a dollar (usually, but it keeps going down, seventy to ninety cents of each dollar).

Hence, if you play regularly, the odds are insanely high, all but guaranteed (unless you are on of the infinitesimally small number of jackpot winners) to lose. It's fine if you understand that you are playing a losing game and treat it for what it is - entertainment. But if it is treated as a way to potentially make money, you are deceiving yourself. Unfortunately, it is the ones struggling the most in our society that play the gov't lotteries the most.

Roulette is another game that falls into that category. There is no skill or strategy, though the game relies on peoples' false belief that there is. But that's also why it's my favorite game in a casino. You can sit there a long time and bleed 25 cents for every dollar you bet, meanwhile having a few drinks, smoking your cigar and shooting the bull with some interesting characters. It's really not a bad way to kill an evening.

 

[tonyb]

I never caught the gambling bug. It's not that I don't understand it, though. I've experienced something of the hypnotic in it myself.

It is that transcendent quality that worries the scolds, who give every sign of being out to save themselves from their own worst impulses. As our friend ChiTownScion sort of suggests (I think), the churches and the casinos have overlapping missions. They're both in the transcendence business.

Still, though, I believe this culture suffers more than it benefits from the proliferation of legalized gambling we've witnessed over recent decades. I would rather gambling be less rather than more "normalized." But, you know, you can say that about many things.

 

[tonyb]

Roulette is another game that falls into that category. There is no skill or strategy, though the game relies on peoples' false belief that there is. But that's also why it's my favorite game in a casino. You can sit there a long time and bleed 25 cents for every dollar you bet, meanwhile having a few drinks, smoking your cigar and shooting the bull with some interesting characters. It's really not a bad way to kill an evening.

I can dig that. The level of thought one gives to the game itself matters not one whit in how well one will do. May as well get a good buzz on.

I've played poker on maybe a dozen occasions in my entire life. Can't say I enjoyed it much, or really understood it well enough to even begin to know what the real skills of the game might be. I am assured there are indeed skills, and I believe that's true, although most every person I've ever known who considered himself a skillful poker player was something of a magical thinker. A long-ago workplace of mine doubled as a poker den most nights, so I had a more than passing acquaintance with several habitual poker players. One fellow I knew quite well -- a guy who occasionally crashed on my couch, a guy who died young -- was fond of saying he wasn't a gambler, he was a card player. And he died with all his worldly riches on his person.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I learned to play poker when I was six years old. My mother used to run a neighborhood game with her friends, and it was never big money because nobody had any, but it was a fun social thing, and when I learned the fundamentals I was allowed to sit in. Kept me in Coca-Cola and ice-cream money for a while. "Who dealt this mess?"

My grandfather was a habitue of the harness-racing track, and after he died I found a great many losing tickets among his effects. I think he kept them as a reminder not to let the gambling get out of hand.