vintage music!

[Cousin Hepcat]

The poster who mentioned the "Blanton-Webster" Ellington band is dead on! THE best band and the best bandleader ever!

My Man! lol My favorite title he's been bestowed is "America's Greatest Composer" (of any kind).

If you haven't already heard it, check out this one of Ellington & Dorsey playing together.

Glenn Miller's great too, anyone who says he couldn't play hot needs to listen to "Carribean Clipper". Never heard of that tune till I ran across the 78, but his orchestra played it when I went to see them last, & Tore, It, UP! (Root, that's on the CD I sent you)


Swing High,
- Cousin Hepcat

 

[K by the bay]

Well, Mr. Dodge, I haven't listened to that much jazz since I didn't care for the stuff I heard which WAS cacophony. As the Romans say, "De gustibus non est disputandum". Or, There's no accounting for taste. You look remarkably like William Holden. As for Glenn Miller, some of you might like Swinging Miller Thrillers.

 

[FedoraGent]

Ok, any one ever see this label? I mentioned it in my last post I think but, here's an image of what it looks like! I want more on this label!

Root, I have indeed seen that label. Live and in the 78. A buddy of mine is the largest collector of 78s in San Francisco...and I have seen that label. He has EVERYTHING, and I do mean everything.

Jon

 

[FedoraGent]

Stream...

Gang, I've been thinking of putting together a Window Media Stream full of 30s and 40s music. Would anyone listen if I put it up?

Jon

 

[Cousin Hepcat]

Ok, any one ever see this label? I mentioned it in my last post I think but, here's an image of what it looks like! I want more on this label!

Root, I have indeed seen that label. Live and in the 78. A buddy of mine is the largest collector of 78s in San Francisco...and I have seen that label. He has EVERYTHING, and I do mean everything.

Jon

Like Absynthe said, you do see them now & then, got a few including one red shellac 1920s "pop-jazz" flapper number like that.

But the coolest stuff on Perfect has got to be Cab Calloway's very early c. 1930 recordings (purple label) the year he first got the job at The Cotton Club but wasn't yet a MEGA star! Have one of those somewhere around here (the pic here is a different one), got it autographed backstage in person at one of his last concerts. His reaction was funny: "Where'd you get this?!" Wish I'd just given it to him now. Oh well (I did make him a tape of several unavailable on CD & gave him that). When I get a place where I can "stretch out", it's going prominently on display beside an 8x10 in the living room

(P.S. Aren't those images of Ruth Etting & Annette Hanshaw at the bottom "to die for"! )

Swing High,
- Cousin Hepcat

 

[Nathan Dodge]

My Man! lol My favorite title he's been bestowed is "America's Greatest Composer" (of any kind).

If you haven't already heard it, check out this one of Ellington & Dorsey playing together.

Glenn Miller's great too, anyone who says he couldn't play hot needs to listen to "Carribean Clipper". Never heard of that tune till I ran across the 78, but his orchestra played it when I went to see them last, & Tore, It, UP!


Swing High,
- Cousin Hepcat

Thanks for the link!

Well, Mr. Dodge, I haven't listened to that much jazz since I didn't care for the stuff I heard which WAS cacophony. As the Romans say, "De gustibus non est disputandum". Or, There's no accounting for taste. You look remarkably like William Holden. As for Glenn Miller, some of you might like Swinging Miller Thrillers.

Call me Nathan... or Joe "Sunset Blvd." Gillis! lol I wish I could have hair like William Holden's... Oh, I have hair, but it's more like Holden Caufield's...

As for Bebop...just don't paint it all with the same big brush...there's great music there...but, as you already said...

 

[K by the bay]

OK Nathan. Good old reliable Nathan?

 

[Daisy Buchanan]

I don't know how I missed this thread, but I'm glad I found it. I'm learning so much about "vintage music", which I'm sad to admit, I don't know much about.
One of my new favorites is Noel Coward. I think he's a hoot, and has a lovely voice. "Nina" is such a pip, and for that era, the lyrics are quite scandelous.
Not as vintage as others, but I've always since childhood loved Frank Sinatra. My Grampa was a huge fan, and I can remember sitting on his lap, and him trying to sing to me. I was lucky enough to see him in concert (Frank, not my Grampa), a night I will never forget, not only because it was incredibly romantic, but the music was fantastic. He was at the end of his life when I saw him so unfortunately he was forgetting a lot of the words, but he laughed about it and improvised quite well. What a night.

 

[Feraud]

Not as vintage as others, but I've always since childhood loved Frank Sinatra. My Grampa was a huge fan, and I can remember sitting on his lap, and him trying to sing to me. I was lucky enough to see him in concert (Frank, not my Grampa), a night I will never forget, not only because it was incredibly romantic, but the music was fantastic. He was at the end of his life when I saw him so unfortunately he was forgetting a lot of the words, but he laughed about it and improvised quite well. What a night.

Cool story. My grandmother saw Ol' Blue Eyes in concert years ago. She met him and he signed her concert program something to the effect of, "To Rosie, let's do it again sometime."

 

[Rundquist]

Glenn Miller made this very point himself in an interview I read a few days ago. He said explicitly that his band was not a jazz band. I think the point that a lot of people miss when they make these kinds of criticisms is that Glenn Miller (and many others, thankfully), played for an audience. The reason why I have no use for most modern jazz (or modern art, etc.) is that it seems to be aimed more at other artists than at a general audience--and intentionally so. I get the impression that a lot of people who aren't musicians (or artists) are "fans" of this stuff because they think it makes them appear more cultured or hip or whatever. I may be wrong on this one but...

Lord knows I've tried to listen to Miles Davis, John Coltrane, etc., but I just can't get into the freeform anarchy of it. I remember hearing some jazz quartet playing "Autumn Leaves." To me, it sounded like four very talented musicians improvising at the same time with no clear connecting theme. In a word, chaos.



Chick Webb was the man! He was badly deformed and in awful pain most of the time, but man, he could pound those skins. He did give Ella Fitzgerald her start. If for no other reason, he deserves immortality for that. In fact, I believe Ella led the Chick Webb band for a while after he died. There was a battle of the bands one night at the Savoy between Chick Webb and Benny Goodman. While most in attendance thought both bands were in top form, it was pretty much universally agreed (even among Goodman's players) that Chick's band was the clear winner.

I'll keep my eyes open for the Lucky Stars. A lot of California bands make their way to Reno on a fairly regular basis. They sound like a lot of fun.

Not everything has to be high art, I agree. But music does need to retain its relevance if it is to be remembered for anything other than historical purposes. Just because something is popular, that in itself doesn’t automatically make it worthy of remembrance for the ages. It should also be noted that Bop (or modal jazz) & Swing are two different things. Just because you can appreciate one, it doesn’t automatically mean that you can appreciate the other. Duke Ellington said that there are only two types of music: good and bad. I agree with that statement. Of course what’s good and what’s bad is subjective. But I would never judge a piece of music based on what genre of music it is. I think that a lot of people miss out on good music because of such pigeonholing. Cheers

 

[Wild Root]

Music does need to retain its relevance if it is to be remembered for anything other than historical purposes. Just because something is popular, that in itself doesn’t automatically make it worthy of remembrance for the ages.

And this is coming from someone who thinks Benny Goodman was a fake.

Miller was an artist! He tried three times till his band finally took! He worked hard and had some amazing arrangers... for some reason, every one only knows of his top hits... In the Mood, Tuxedo Junction, String of Pearls, Chatanooga Choo choo, and so on. No one seems to listen to some of the hot stuff or the very romantic ballads his band recorded in 1939-1944.

If 70% or more of the US loved one band's music enough to buy over million copies of more then one song, thus, making more then one record go Gold, I think it would be worth remembering!

His music is still making money over 60 years later... food for thought!

=WR=

 

[FedoraGent]

And this is coming from someone who thinks Benny Goodman was a fake.

Miller was an artist! He tried three times till his band finally took! He worked hard and had some amazing arrangers... for some reason, every one only knows of his top hits... In the Mood, Tuxedo Junction, String of Pearls, Chatanooga Choo choo, and so on. No one seems to listen to some of the hot stuff or the very romantic ballads his band recorded in 1939-1944.

If 70% or more of the US loved one band's music enough to sell over million copies of more then one song, thus, making more then one record go Gold, I think it would be worth remembering!

His music is still making money over 60 years later... food for thought!

=WR=

I never in my life ever thought that I'd be defending Glenn Miller's music as I'm more of a Goodman fan but...I have to admit that I do like them both. In another post in The Observation Lounge, we've been talking about Miller and Goodman and all the great work both of them did. Like I said there, Miller was one hell of a showman and there were alot of songs just as WR said that were just special and wonderful to that generation that still ring til today. My father was a Miller fan and my mother was a Goodman fan which brought together some really interesting weekends listening to swing. We should remember that one of the reasons that Miller's music is so remembered (as I said in the other thread) is that he gave us Americans something that we needed during the War. What was that? A piece of home, and still today we remember him and his music with fond memories. Think about it, a whole generation removed still loved him and his music as they do today. When we think of the Golden Era and what do most of the ignoramouses out there think of? GLENN MILLER. His music did not only bring that joy, love and clever diversion to a war wraught world during that era but has now come to symbolize that to which was great about the late 30s and 40s. When you think about the 40s, often you think about Miller, when you think about the 60s, you often think about The Beatles. Not a bad way to be remembered. Miller's music is as valid today as it was yesterday.

One last thing, for someone to think that Benny Goodman was a fake...well you're entitled to your own opinion and right to speech but if it was one thing that Benny Goodman was not ... HE WAS NOT A FAKE. He contributed to the Golden Era and that to which we think of fondly just as much as Miller, Shaw, Crosby (Bob), Whiteman and many many others. His music, just as Miller's was thoroughly executed, beautiful and VERY REAL. Without Benny we wouldn't have Fletcher Henderson, Lionel Hampton, Gene Krupa, Glenn Miller and lest we not forget Charlie Christian. Pull those small group sessions together in a compilation and you have the makings of true art. To say that Benny Goodman was a fake is as bad as claiming that we didn't land on the moon. Just plain rubbish. But then again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter how wrong or right their interpretation of history is.

FG.

 

[Wild Root]

:eusa_clap

In the golden era, there were very little fakes! One could easily spot fakes and they were only actors portraying musicians in movies when they really weren’t musicians. I recall seeing a short film from the 40’s of an all girl orchestra and one can easily spot how the women really weren’t playing the instruments.

Benny Goodman was an amazing clarinetist! By hearing his story and his music, one can’t possibly come to a deduction that he was a phony. He didn’t only play Jazz or swing, he was also a classical clarinetist as well. Some of his recordings of playing classical can be found if one should look. His technique is amazing, he earned his fame and popularity, he was a slave driver to his band to stay tight and on key. Goodman, Miller and just about every bandleader of the day were all tough men to work for. That is how they produced some of the best sounding music! Ever hear an original recording and then a contemporary recording? There is always something lacking! Playing in a big band meant uniform playing with some variation when the solo permitted. These bands played in front of thousands of people at a time, played live on the radio and recorded hundreds of songs and some are lost over time and some remain on 78rpm only.

The Big Band Era was a time in the 20th Century that will become known as America’s classical period because that style of music originated here.

=WR=

 

[FedoraGent]

:eusa_clap

Sank you, Sank you, I be here all seeaa week.

 

[Rundquist]

And this is coming from someone who thinks Benny Goodman was a fake.

Miller was an artist! He tried three times till his band finally took! He worked hard and had some amazing arrangers... for some reason, every one only knows of his top hits... In the Mood, Tuxedo Junction, String of Pearls, Chatanooga Choo choo, and so on. No one seems to listen to some of the hot stuff or the very romantic ballads his band recorded in 1939-1944.

If 70% or more of the US loved one band's music enough to buy over million copies of more then one song, thus, making more then one record go Gold, I think it would be worth remembering!

His music is still making money over 60 years later... food for thought!

=WR=

Nowhere in this thread did I call Goodman a fake. Don’t put words in my mouth. In the past I might have said that he personally was a “long hair” and couldn’t swing. I’ll stand by that. Goodman was a technician. His solos were mostly composed of classical scales. His solos might touch you, but they don’t do much for me.

Arguing record sales and popularity will never persuade me that something is good. Don’t get me wrong, something can be good and popular at the same time (although the chances of that are very remote in today’s society), but just because something is (or was) popular, that in itself doesn’t make it good. A case in point would be the movie “Titanic”, or really any pop record on the charts today.

One last thing. Just because I don’t care for something (or agree with your opinions), that doesn’t mean that I don’t know what I’m talking about. I was listing to big band/swing music when I was eight years old. I’ve read George T. Simon’s book on the big band era. I’m a musician (trombone). I’ve listened to all kinds of different music throughout the years. And I might add that I don’t self impose strange limits on myself (like only listing to music from a 20 year span of time). If anyone is qualified to have an “opinion”, it’s me.

 

[Girl Friday]

Keely Smith!

The best ever version of Sunny Side of the Street, that song was made for her.

 

[Wild Root]

Nowhere in this thread did I call Goodman a fake. Don’t put words in my mouth. In the past I might have said that he personally was a “long hair” and couldn’t swing. I’ll stand by that. Goodman was a technician. His solos were mostly composed of classical scales. His solos might touch you, but they don’t do much for me.

Arguing record sales and popularity will never persuade me that something is good. Don’t get me wrong, something can be good and popular at the same time (although the chances of that are very remote in today’s society), but just because something is (or was) popular, that in itself doesn’t make it good. A case in point would be the movie “Titanic”, or really any pop record on the charts today.

One last thing. Just because I don’t care for something (or agree with your opinions), that doesn’t mean that I don’t know what I’m talking about. I was listing to big band/swing music when I was eight years old. I’ve read George T. Simon’s book on the big band era. I’m a musician (trombone). I’ve listened to all kinds of different music throughout the years. And I might add that I don’t self impose strange limits on myself (like only listing to music from a 20 year span of time). If anyone is qualified to have an “opinion”, it’s me.

Adam, I wasn’t putting words into your mouth at all, I just recall when I met with you gents at the Pub back in ’03 with MK, we talked about big band music and Benny Goodman came up, you said something to the effect that he pulled his songs out of his butt… that is a false accusation. I play clarinet and brother, it took me three weeks to pick out a song of his note by note seeing there isn’t many good song books of his.

So, you think you’re the only one who can talk about this? That’s a laugh in a half! Are you aware that two of my great uncles played in many of the Big Bands? They both played with Goodman, Whiteman, Spike Jones, Tommy Dorsey and so on… both played amazing Trombone and knew their stuff… I only have my great uncle John left and he was playing Trombone all the way up to the late 90’s. Big Band is in my blood, it’s something I have studied and listen to all the time. I think I have a valid right to speak about such things.

I know your type, you think just because you don’t like something that every one who does are wrong or have no taste. I’m not trying to make you like Glenn or Benny, I just want you to understand that because you don’t care for a band doesn’t mean that they’re not good talented musicians.

It also just annoys me when some one is saying good things about these musicians that some one has to come in and act like they have better taste because they don’t care for their music… that’s just lame.

I have read Simon’s book about the Big Band era and also his book about Miller… yeah, I can read too. I listen to Jazz, Swing, Country Western Swing, Hawaiian, American, German, French, and English Swing and Jazz. I have a collection of over 300 78rpm records spanning from the 20’s to the 50’s, I have also a large collection of CD’s and tapes. I don’t only listen to Miller’s or Goodman’s music, I listen to most of everything mainly from the 20’s to the 50’s because I don’t care for modern music.

=WR=

 

[Rundquist]

Adam, I wasn’t putting words into your mouth at all, I just recall when I met with you gents at the Pub back in ’03 with MK, we talked about big band music and Benny Goodman came up, you said something to the effect that he pulled his songs out of his butt… that is a false accusation. I play clarinet and brother, it took me three weeks to pick out a song of his note by note seeing there isn’t many good song books of his.

So, you think you’re the only one who can talk about this? That’s a laugh in a half! Are you aware that two of my great uncles played in many of the Big Bands? They both played with Goodman, Whiteman, Spike Jones, Tommy Dorsey and so on… both played amazing Trombone and knew their stuff… I only have my great uncle John left and he was playing Trombone all the way up to the late 90’s. Big Band is in my blood, it’s something I have studied and listen to all the time. I think I have a valid right to speak about such things.

I know your type, you think just because you don’t like something that every one who does are wrong or have no taste. I’m not trying to make you like Glenn or Benny, I just want you to understand that because you don’t care for a band doesn’t mean that they’re not good talented musicians.

It also just annoys me when some one is saying good things about these musicians that some one has to come in and act like they have better taste because they don’t care for their music… that’s just lame.

I have read Simon’s book about the Big Band era and also his book about Miller… yeah, I can read too. I listen to Jazz, Swing, Country Western Swing, Hawaiian, American, German, French, and English Swing and Jazz. I have a collection of over 300 78rpm records spanning from the 20’s to the 50’s, I have also a large collection of CD’s and tapes. I don’t only listen to Miller’s or Goodman’s music, I listen to most of everything mainly from the 20’s to the 50’s because I don’t care for modern music.

=WR=

I’m a “type”, huh? The point of me giving you a bit of my musical background was not to belittle you. It was just to inform you that I’ve not totally uneducated in music. I never called into question your knowledge of period big band music. Also, I would never presume to tell anyone that their opinion is “wrong”, and neither should you. I was just giving you reasons for my opinions. This is a discussion board after all. I could see how you might take offense to my comment about your window of music appreciation. But I did not state anything that you haven’t said before about your own tastes with regards to the time period window . That is “strange” to me. So what? Don’t take it personally. Cheers

 

[Wild Root]

I give up

 

[FedoraGent]

I give up

Potsdam Declaration time. Just kidding.