Vintage Kimonos

[Claireg]

I have found two kimono's in a box of vintage clothes I got for almost nothing at an auction the other week. One of the items of clothing is from the 1940's, the other from 1910.
I thought nothing of these kimonos as I know nothing about them.
Now Im wondering if they are possbly vintage ones.
I will try and post photos asap of them, they are quite plain and heavy and quite dirty.
What should I do with them?
I guess I should get them cleaned but at a drycleaners? They dont have any delicate designs to the best of my knowledge.
I dont wish to keep them as I would like someone who knows more about them to have the chance to own them so should i sell them on E bay?
I live in NZ by the way.

 

[LaMedicine]

A few Qs.

1) Are the kimonos men's or women's? You can discern this by looking at the underarm seams. They are closed both on the bodice and the sleeve with men's kimonos, and open with women's kimonos.

2) By "plain" and "no delicate designs" do you mean they are just solid colors? If it is men's kimono, then they are either solid colors, or woven patterns(stripes, plaids, simple or complex splash patterns) are the norm. No hand painted designs, unless they are stage costumes for various performers. If they are women't kimonos, there is a group of kimono called iromujji, meaning solid color, which is semi-formal and there should be family crests about 2 cm (or larger with much older kimonos) in diameter, embroidered or hand painted high at the center back, and maybe on the backs of both sleeves, and on the breasts. If the patterns are woven in--plaids, stripes, simple or complex splash patterns--they are casual kimonos for daily wear.

3) Are they lined? What colors are the linings, can you tell what the materials are?

4) Try dusting them off first. Hang it outside, take a quilt beater and give iti a good beating. Don't forget to mask your nose, mouth and hair with a mask and/or scarves, maybe sunshades, so you won't be breathing the dust in, and such.
If they are silk, you'll have to take it to a dry cleaners who know how to deal with delicate silk. If there are any printed motifs--hand painted or stencil dye--it's quite possible that the colors will bleed, or even drain altogether, unless it is cleaned by a craftsman who specialize in kimono cleaning. On the other hand, many of the woven kimonos were often hand washed at home by taking out all the seams, hand washed in cold water, then spread over flat boards of wood to dry, making sure the width and length of each piece are aligned, then resewn into its original form, or maybe resized for a child.
Since you say it's very dirty, the standard way here to wash it will be to take out all the seams, then sew the pieces back with rough stitches into the shape of the orginal bolt of fabric, then washed and dried, then steamed to align the width and breadth, and resew after drying.

5) If you don't know what to do with them, and are thinking of putting then on Ebay, then I think it might be better to put it up as is, explaning their condition, and leave it up to the buyer to do whatever cleaning up that needs to be done, as the cost and trouble of cleaning it up will probably exceed the price it will bring. Also, you might ask analiebe if she knows anything as she's in Melbourne and designed some costumes for a dance company using old kimonos.

Hope this helps as starters.

 

[bunny chan]

I bought a used kimono in Kyoto at the beginning of the year. The woman of the store said it is vintage, but she didn't know the exact period.
I also bought an used obi (semplified version) and a kimono bag.

Instead in a normal shop, I bought also white tabi, an obi makura, an obijime and another thing I don't remember the name now (the scarf going under the upper top of the obi).

As soon as I have picture I'll post so LaMedicine can give me some advice and tell me if I make it right!

B.

 

[LaMedicine]

I also bought an used obi (semplified version)

Do you mean a Nagoya obi (the front part sewn into half) or a tsuke obi, an obi in two parts, the *belt* part and the back o-taiko?

another thing I don't remember the name now (the scarf going under the upper top of the obi).

Obi-age
Did you get either a naga-jyuban to or an usotsuki ensemble (two piece set of jyuban and wrap skirt) wear underneath?

Looking forward to seeing your pics.

fftopic: Where in Italy are you? One of my cousins' daughter is married to an Italian and lives in Torino.

 

[bunny chan]

I meant a Tsuke obi, the one in two parts!

I didn't get the jyuban...I forgot :eusa_doh: ...well...next time !!

fftopic: I'm in Roma, but I love Torino: it's a very nice city!!

B.

 

[bunny chan]

Here is my "new" kimono.

It is used, but as good as new one! They said is old, but couldn't tell me how old...

And again, I tryed to tie my obi, but I don't remember how to do it...can you explain in simple way LaMedicine?

Thanks,
B.

 

[LaMedicine]

@bunny chan

Judging from the lining, probably no earlier than early '60s. Likely, mid '60 to, since the shop said old, '80s.

Could you post a pic of the obi? There are a couple of styles to the tsuke obis, so, I need to know to explain. Thanks.

 

[LaMedicine]

In my mother's rejuvenated kimono

I posted these pics in the What are you wearing today thread, but anyway.
This was my mother's, the base color light blue, but it had some serious stains all over when she gave it to me. I took it to a kimono craftsman who works with old kimonos. He suggested to redye the kimono by
1) covering the motif with a protective film layer,
2) then use a spray dye method and
3) spray dye first, yellow a shade deeper than the stains, then
4) spray dye light blue a shade deeper than the orginal very light blue base color.
The closeup of the result.

Dig the Art Deco motif of both the kimono and the obi

Showing off the front and back.

The motifs are hand illustrated by Yuzen method.
Proof that is is hand drawn Yuzen are the borderlines between the colors. The line is the result of a special glue that is used to prevent the colors from bleeding into each other. The glue is washed off after the dye dries. Sometimes, these borderlines are left as is, other times, they are filled in with gold, as can be seen in this close up. They may be embroidered as well.
Both blank and gold filled borderlines can be seen.

 

[Miss Dizzy Dame]

Beautiful!! I adore kimonos!

 

[jsands]

Kanzashi

Unsure if this belongs within this thread, but it is related to Kimono's....

I have been fascinated with the art of Kanzashi. I make hair bows for my daughter (also a few pieces for myself), and I just love the craftsmanship of these gorgeous hair pieces. Do you also collect the Kanzashi to match your kimono's? I have been practicing the various folds so that I can adapt it into some of the pieces I like to make. Some of the documentaries I have seen really showcase extremely ornate pieces. It's such a delicate, beautiful art.

 

[LaMedicine]

Kanzashi

Do you mean ones like in these links?
http://kanzashi-ayano.com/work/index.shtml
http://kanzashi-ayano.com/work/shidare.shtml
They are very pretty, and fun to make when you learn how to, and with western clothes, the comb/pin type ones can be worn as hair accessories, but as far as kimonos go, then no. I am too old for them, these are basically for those who are still young--girls, maidens, young unmarried women.
The ones I use are combs like this

and I have some that are like these
http://kanzashi.info/shopbrand/011/O/
as they are more age appropriate.
For me, it's more having some accessories on hand that match with my kimonos, rather than collecting them for collection's sake.

My kimonos are the same, they aren't collected for collection's sake, they are aquired for use--wearing them for appropriate occasions--so whatever my mother and aunts give me, I check out if alterations are needed, and have them resized accordingly, plus, depending on the motif designs, if they are more appropriate for my daughters rather than myself, then I have them altered for them. I also have a lot of kimonos I aquired over time for myself, so it's a case of having a closet full of clothes for use, matching them in any way I please, so they are fitting for the occasion or match my mood.

For instance, this pic was taken four years ago, the kimono was given to me as the original kimono bolt (then sewn into a kimono as part of my trousseau) from my grandmother as my wedding gift when I got married in 1975. The obi, I had aquired the year before this pic was taken.

This is an Ooshima Tsumugi weave, very fine splash patterns to form the larger pattern. (The coin is a US quarter coin.)
The Ooshima Tsumugi is a speciality of the region my late father came form.

This haori and kimono ensemble was altered from my grandfather's kimono ensemble, the fabric itself dating back to the '30-'40s, and the obi, I had aquired about 25 years ago.

This is another Ooshima Tsumugi. It looks like a solid color from a distance, but seen up close, it's another very intricate splash pattern.

So you see, my kimonos are part of my wardrobe, and all the accessories to go with them are also part of my wardrobe/jewlery box

 

[Foofoogal]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

exquisite LaMedicine as always. That Art Deco design is fabulous. :eusa_clap

 

[jsands]

Exquisite is exactly the word I thought of when seeing your pictures. And, yes! The links you provided are exactly what I have been interested in creating. I have some fabric that I can practice with, although I have been wondering if it were possible to adapt the kanzashi by using a wide ribbon instead. The documentary was truly fascinating. If anyone is interested in seeing what I am talking about, and watching a kanzashi master, you can find the videos on Youtube.

The combs you use are also gorgeous. I've fallen in love with the single flower bobby-pin style. It's simple, yet elegant.

Is kanzashi still popular within the culture today? Or is it more used in ceremonial occasions? Some of the highly ornate pieces obviously would not do for everyday use.

 

[LaMedicine]

Kanzashi making

 

[LaMedicine]

These fancy types of kanzashi are used only on festive occasions like New Year, Seijinshiki (Coming of Age Day, the first 2nd Monday in January after one turns 20) and ShichiGoSan (7-5-3, children's celebration for turning 7 and 3 for girls, 5 for boys--November 15, usually celebrated on the weekend closest to the 15th). Sometimes, female guests at weddings and parties may wear smipler versions, provided the person is single and still young--in her mid 20s at most. It's also part of maiko/hangyoku(maiko is the term for apprentice geiko in Kyoto, hangyoku is the term for apprentice geisha in Tokyo, plus, the correct term in Kyoto is geiko, geisha is used in other regions including Tokyo, so you have to be really careful not to use the term geisha in Kyoto.) hair accessories, so for them, it's daily wear.
The simplest bobby pin types can be worn with western clothes, though, but the fact that in our minds, those kanzashi go hand in hand with kimonos may be a deterrent for us to wear them with dresses.

You probably can use thin wide ribbons in place of the square cut fabrics, but they might be harder to shape.

 

[Foofoogal]

Coming of Age Day, the first 2nd Monday in January after one turns 20)

Fascinating LaMedicine. Just found this. I love that you tell us about all of this. Do you have a blog?


I got sent a message about a blog but written in Japanese so didn't know exactly how to communicate with it or add it to my blog list.

 

[LaMedicine]

Do you have a blog?

No, I don't, too much on my hands, so I don't really have time to do something like that....come to think of it, though, I wrote in English an 80 page piece on the seasonal events in Japan several years ago for friends. I suppose I could start a blog and put that up.

I got sent a message about a blog but written in Japanese so didn't know exactly how to communicate with it or add it to my blog list.

If you think I can be of help, post, or PM me, whichever

 

[Foofoogal]

http://www.1860-1960.com/xa5213p0.html

LaMedicine. Ran across this kimono today and wondered what you would think of it. This site has some very pretty ones.

 

[LaMedicine]

Beautiful. However, rather than it being an uchikake, it's more likely that this is an oironaoshi furisode.
Uchikake is worn over the rest of the bridal kimono, so it's like a long jacket. All of the uchikake that I have seen, have motifs over the entire uchikake, since it's an outer wear.
This furisode doesn't have any motif around the waistline, save for the base brocade weave pattern, which indicates that it is meant to be worn with an obi tied around the waist.

Oironaoshi is our custom of changing costumes from the one we wore at the marriage ceremony, to something else during the reception. Iro means color, and naoshi means correct or change, naosu being the base verb. So, together, it is changing colors, meaning the bride is expected to adapt to the household customs of the groom. Of course, these days, it's a very good excuse for the bride, and sometimes for the groom, to wear a variety of clothes, and often gives them the oppportunity to wear both traditional Japanese and western attire.

Furisode worn for oironaoshi is more stylized than a regular furisode, and is designed to stand out and is just as gorgeous as uchikake. Plus, these furisode have padded hems to make the hemline drop in a graceful but straight line.

Another feature that makes me think that this probably is an oironaoshi furisode is the hem padding itself. The padding of uchikake is much thicker than this, and the lining shows on the outer side, so the hem is a different material from the rest of the outside material. This is because the hem of the uchikake is meant to be dragged over the floor, so, the lining provides protection for the rest of the fabric.
There are some photos here of used (rental) uchikake on sale.

Incidentally, the red lining most likely is what we call momi, silk or cotton (this kimono's would be silk, of course) dyed with benibana-safflower.

 

[Foofoogal]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
I could hear you talk Kimono all day. Love it. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap