Black Prince said:(Okay, although I think I've got a reasonable grasp of what is and isn't acceptable here in terms of subject matter, I may have misjudged things - in which case I've no problems with the bartenders doing what they do.)
I suppose this is part introduction thread and part meander through a number of (what I see as) overlapping topics. I've been here maybe four, five months, having stumbled across the place on a Googlesearch for, I think, either 'Belstaff' or 'Aero Leathers'. First impressions (of the Jacket forum, particularly) were a sort of geeky delight in finding somewhere where people talked knowledgeably and enthusiastically about classic clothing in the sort of exacting, bordering-on-obsessive detail that made me feel simultaneously awed and right at home. While not unequivocally into vintage per se, I've always found myself attracted to smart, retro-styled clothing - motorcycle gear in particular, but also double-breasted suits, overcoats, gloves, etc. - and the more I learn here, the more I feel myself pulled down the vintage route...
I've posted a little and read quite a lot of the forum archives. I think I approached the Fedora Lounge with a certain amount of apprehension, partly because I'm aware that people here dwarf me in terms of specialist knowledge, experience and number of hats)) - but also because I'm fairly openly gay and I thought that might be an issue. I'm not sure why I thought that; possibly I assumed that a liking for '1940s values' would map onto (what I think of as) 1940s attitudes to homosexuality.
With hindsight, that probably says more about my prejudices than anything else. Generally speaking, I've found the discussions here on vintage and what it says about gender expression absolutely fascinating, the metrosexuality thread being a case in point. On, ooh, 95% of online message boards, that sort of intelligent, nuanced discussion of masculinity wouldn't be possible. I really appreciate the fact that, for the large part, male posters here are confident enough not to become defensive about their (arguably 'dandyish') love of clothing detail or attempt to define their 'authentic' maleness in spurious opposition to gay men.
Living in London, one sees a variety of gay 'tribes', which intersect and overlap to varying degrees. I'm always a little surprised that I don't see more people taking on a vintage look. After all, gay culture has a history of taking on and fetishising masculine archetypes (bikers, 'clones', skinheads, 'bears', etc.), sometimes veering into hypermasculine parody. It seems to me that the well-defined male clothing styles of the 1940s would be absolutely ripe for such cultural approximation. That doesn't seem to be the case, though: there are occasional clubs for guys specifically into suits but, to my knowledge, nothing specifically vintage.
That said, there seems to be more interest in vintage within the trans/genderqueer community. Earlier this year, Transfabulous hosted Strictly Bona Ballroom as part of LGBT History Month, an event aimed at "L, G, B or T, fruit of the forest or your own special creation" (ie. anyone, really), in the 1930s deco Camden Centre. I was in Venice at the time and couldn't go, but it looked like it might've been interestingly vintage, or at least retro in style.
My own experience of vintage on the gay scene has been via a particular club, Duckie. Hosted by the lovely Amy Lamé (herself no stranger to old-style glamour), it's a sort of dance-cum-cabaret venue. It regularly features burlesque, which is currently enjoying something of a renaissance in London.
Anyway, maybe a couple of months ago, at Duckie, I saw a guy in his early thirties wearing a mid-brown fedora hat which, even to my untutored eye, looked magnificent. I went up and complimented him on it, asking what kind of hat it was and where he'd got it. A Borsalino, apparently (meant nothing to me at the time), which he'd picked up in a shop in Paris. Later, I Googled 'Borsalino' and, lo and behold, ended up back here again.
So... that's my big old ramble. If you've persevered through all of that, well done. I guess it's all a rather roundabout way of saying I like it here.
Hey, welcome. Just came across your thread.
I would say, firstly, even though some her eave very traditional in their values, they are all respectful.
Secondly, many here are pretty liberal, ex punk rocker, alternative types.
The rest ae a crazy mix of all kinds of things. didn't we even ahve adrag queen or transvestite?
As far as the gay fetishization thing, that is interesting. I ahve always been into subclutures, and style, so I understand what you mean. Many people don't realize the leather biker thing goes back to the fifties when bikers wre realy out ther rebels an San Francisco gays started wearing the stuff as a macho fetishization. I read a short story written by an SF author in the fifties that references it. I could see it, but the modern younger gay set seems to have lost that ironic edge.
I do know some cool women in SF that were gay and were into swing dancing, leading and following (knew some guys that were int osame partner dancing too in SF and Seattle) The leads were those handsome slim boyish types, maybe even drag kings, and they were int ovintage mens stuff. We saved all the small suits for them in the shop. I loved their sense of style.
All I can say is this is a very open community, and also into having a broad spectrum, so I am sure you are most welcome.
I remember about twenty years ago, when I was still more of a new wave vintage guy, I met a guy who was a hairdresser, pretty sure gay, who was really into vintage forties stuff and dressed great. Wish I could get in touch now I would love to see if he was still into it.
Mateo
