Vintage bosalino felt question

[gcollins]

Comrades:

Some of you may have seen a number of new, but vintage borsos on ebay, and perhaps some of us might want to bid on one or more of them.

With all the good talk here about vintage felts, what made those vintage borso felts so good and soft? Are they wild hare, beaver or what?

the seller claims they are from the 30s. Could that be true? How can you tell?

thanks,
G

 

[havershaw]

Let me start by saying...stay away from that one I'm bidding on...!

OK, back to the program.

The felt is, for lack of a better-fitting word, buttery. And I don't think there is a better-fitting word. It's very light, very soft, and it's insanely pliable. They have what may be my favorite felt of all time, though I haven't yet experienced a 100% beaver. Like I said, the felt is thin...but it's not too light...the felt is thin but dense.

I've had four vintage Borsalinos, and they all had great felt, but one of them is superior to the others by far. I've been questing another Borsalino of that quality. Some of the hats on there look to be that thin and floppy. I'm hoping the one I'm bidding on is similar to my best one. If it's not, it'll still be great felt, I'm sure.

And I'd like to add that I have no clue how the seller determined they were from the 30s. You might want to email him/her and ask. I don't know of any dependable way to date Borsalinos, but Art might.

 

[jamespowers]

I noticed that you were doing a bit of bidding there H. You have no worries from me. None of them are even close to my size. LOL I just picked up a wreck for my wife. Oh Art.....
I can second your description. A vintage Borsalino is very pliable and conforms to whatever shape you desire.
The vintage of the hats should be able to be deciphered from the tags inside them but I have yet to find a source with the information I could use. Maybe Borsalino itself has records but there should be some way to access these records or someone has books that have these records. I think there is a Borsalino book out but I do not know what it contains. Perhaps it is time I asked a source that I have neglected until now.

Regards,

J

 

[gcollins]

Hi Havershaw:

thanks. Your comments echo everything I've heard before. Good thing our hat sizes are different! I'm just watching the auction for now, though one my size is indeed there.

Did you wear one of those nice fedoras of yours to see the Sun Devils smoke UTEP thursday?

G

 

[havershaw]

Yeah, I don't really buy hats too much anymore. I have way too many. I'm liquidating about 12 more this month. Maybe then I'll be able to buy a few more. I know I'll be buying one or two of Fedora's custom hats - his block is a superb stovepipe 30s crown (I have one of his blocks in my size), I just don't usually put the sharp Raiders pinch in it.

I do still search Borsalinos. Once I got a couple of really nice ones, I kind of decided those were the ones worth pursuing, and the ones that get the most wear.

gcollins...it took me a few minutes of staring at your message to figure out what you were talking about! Sun Devils is one of the college sports teams, right? I'm pretty sports-ignorant (obviously!). Sorry!

 

[gcollins]

Hi Havershaw:

Just for the record, from you're home in Mesa, you can probably hear the crowd at Sun Devil stadium in the fall in Tempe, right next door to you.

It's pretty hot in Arizona. Can you wear your felt hats in the summer? Thankfully, no humidity, so it is definitely possible. Do you have lightweight felts for the summer months, when its over 40 degrees C there?

G

 

[Renderking Fisk]

Don't know if this is any help... but the two bosalino fedora's that I've seen that were made with in the past 5 years didn't hold thier blocks very long. Is there any way you can find out if these are authentic vintage Bosalino's with out buying it first?

 

[havershaw]

Personally, I would tell just by looking at the liners. The modern liners (and by modern I mean the last twenty years or so) just have a certain look about them.

I have a Peters Brothers Borsalino that has been rained on several times which I've had for about two years now, and the block on it seems OK. It doesn't touch their vintage felt, though.

 

[fedoralover]

We've discussed this before but for the benefit of those who didn't see it. The new borsalino's aren't worth the price they are asking---$225 and up. I've looked at them in several stores first hand and I wouldn't give $25. for one, let alone 225. I had a couple from the 60s and they were still really nice. The brims were just too narrow for my taste. The ones they put out now, even their advertised 100% beaver fedora, which is $400. are way over priced.

I have a couple that I'm guessing are from the 40s and they are fantastic. I just bought another one and should get it this coming week.


regards fedoralover

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I have one older Borsalino and two newer ones that I purchased at the Village Hat Shop here in San Diego about a decade ago. The older one has a smoother feel to it, the innards are all intact and the hat just feels better. The other two are OK, and I bought them before the price went way up. I was told by GH that the newer Borsalinos were not worth the price.

I think maybe independent hat makers are the way to go if you want a real high-quality hat, or, of course, those finds off ebay or in antique stores.

I, too, am bidding on a Borsalino on ebay, a woman's hat. I am curious as to what it will be like, hope I don't have to spend too much on it. Have any of you out there had an experience with women's Borsalinos, for wives or friends, etc.?

karol

 

[fedoralover]

Unless you can get them fairly cheap, I would stay away from the new ones. The felt is all made in the same place in the same way. And cheap is cheap, regardless of whether it's for a man or a woman. I would never buy one with a black sweatband or a cloth sweatband. The black because it means it's newer, the cloth for the same reason AND how do you clean it after it's been worn and gets sweated in?

regards fedoralover

 

[havershaw]

I'm happy with my Peters Brothers Borsalino Michaelson, mostly for the color, the fit, and the styling of the brim (done by Joe Jr.), which is one of the greatest brims on any hat I own.

I also wore it on my first visit to the Ambassador. So the hat has a lot of sentimental value.

But the felt quality is not much different from my Akubra federation Deluxe. In fact, I bought that hat to be my 'dress hat' and it pretty much had the exact same finish as the Akubra, and a similar felt thickness. It has a brown leather sweatband, though, not black.

That's not to say it's not a nice hat. But it would be a nice hat for, say, $80-$100. Not for a $350 hat.

Ah, well. Live and learn, I guess. It does have a killer brim.

 

[jamespowers]

The felt quality of a new Borsalino is ridiculous when compared to a vintage one---let's face it. Anything made by Borsalino after the mid seventies is just not up to vintage standard---just like Stetson. They do no even make their hats in the downtown Alessandria anymore. The old plant is now a museum, college and I think store. The black sweatbanded Borsalinos are not all bad but if they do not say Alessandria on the sweatband and the sweat doesn't say "Original House Founded 1857" in a shield like figure then you are looking at something made in the wrong factory at the wrong time. The new ones say "Antica Casa Founded 1857" I suppose to confuse us into thinking the old way of labeling the sweat makes it better than it is. LOL They still have shops in Alessandria but the production is in some damn business park on the outskirts. I won't even go into how they have gone the way of Stetson by selling their name to be placed on ties, umbrellas and a ton of other things. Geez, Aurora of Tokyo makes Borsalino hats under an agreement with Borsalino!
I have attached a series of pictures to show the difference in the liner and sweatband of the crossover period. The first is a 70s liner. This is not meant to the end all of it because I am sure some inferior products were made with the 70s liners and sweatbands because they must have had quite a supply but when it ran out the quality ran out.

Regards to all,

J

P.S. Ok, now someone tell me that I am completely wrong. LOL

 

[jamespowers]

70s Sweatband

 

[jamespowers]

New Sweatband and logo. Notice the difference in texture of the sweatband. The seventies sweatband is smooth while the new on is textured. PU!

 

[jamespowers]

New liner and logo. PU2! LOL LOL

 

[fedoralover]

Those are great pics James, do you have any borsalinos that have the brown sweatbands and the corrigation on the front for ventilation? Those are the really nice ones to get. PLease post some pics of those if you can.

regards fedoralover

 

[jamespowers]

The only picture I have is of a hat I just purchased. If you look at the bottom of the picture, you will see a space between the sweatband and the hat. This is not a case where the sweatband is falling out. LOL The space is filled with a black corrugated material that increases air flow within the hat so the wearer will not be quite as hot. The black banded Borsalino from the 1970s also has this corrugation. To be fair, even though I do not want to , I am not sure if the new ones have this feature or not.

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Wait, I found a better picture as soon as I sent the last one---Darn! Well here it is. This is the inside of a 1960 stingy brim Serikon as opposed to the standard bearer of Borsalino from the 1940s that I posted earlier. You can see the liner logos and the sweatband logos to compare with the others and how the logos have changed.

Regards,

J

 

[gcollins]

Interesting. Here's the sweat and liner from the group of Borsos on e-bay. they all have the perforations at the back of the hat, near the ribbon. Brown sweat. Could this really be from the 30s? Also interesting is that the hat store from which these come were in Sofia...Bulgaria, most likely. Can you dig that? someone must be trolling through shops in Eastern Europe looking for hats.