Veg v. Chrome Tanning

[Superfluous]

First and foremost, I am a complete novice when it comes to the art of leather jackets and, therefore, the naïve observations set forth in this post are the product of lack of knowledge/experience and not intended to disparage any particular brand.

Several brands use primarily/exclusively vegetable tanned leather, and certain of these brands promote their use of veg tanned leather as evidence of their superlative quality. Himel, Goodwear, and Real McCoys come to mind. This forum has introduced me to several brands that I was not previously aware of, and focused my attention on other brands that I knew of but did not pay much attention to. I was surprised to discover that many of the brands frequently exalted here (and sometimes placed on a par with the previously mentioned brands) do not use veg tanned leather; rather, they use chrome tanned leather. It appears that this distinction is not emphasized here. I, an acknowledged novice, previously understood that veg tanned leather was generally considered higher quality and/or more desirable as compared to chrome tanned leather. Based on certain of the brands commonly praised here, it appears that this forum has a different take on the issue and my preexisting understanding may be erroneous.

So why is it that this forum does not emphasize veg tanning? Is chrome tanning of equal quality/desirability? Is the distinction immaterial? Is Chapman’s and Himel’s focus on veg tanning misguided? Is it that veg tanning is not worth the extra cost? Is one more “authentic” than the other?

Thanks in advance for your sage input.

 

[GregO]

Both have pros and cons.

Personally, I have seen fantastic jackets in veg tanned hides, in chrome tanned hides, and in combination tanned hides. So long as the tanning is done well and by a first rate tannery, I am not going to base my decision on a jacket on the tanning method.

Also keep in mind that many manufacturers use Horween chome excel (CX) tanned hides (such as Aero, Diamond, Alexander, etc.), and CX is combination tanned, meaning it is both veg and chrome tanned. This appears to be Horween's attempt at minimizing the cons and maximizing the pros of each tanning method. I'm very happy with my CX steerhide jacket.

 

[aswatland]

Most Wartime A2s were actually made from chrome tanned leather not the veg tanned leather promoted by several high end makers. Chrome tanning was a quicker process and necessary to meet the volume requirements of the USAAF.

 

[AustinTX]

Superfluous,

There are numerous places online to research tanning methods and advantages. Be aware that the authors of such may have their own interests at stake, but you can still learn from them. My own experience is with chrome-tanned A-2 jackets (Pop's and Gibson/Barnes). Wore the Pop's for five seasons and the G/B for two. The Pop's dark brown cowhide softened over time but looked the same throughout. The G/B seal goatskin looks the same as it did new, but is taking its sweet time breaking in (whoever came up with the term "supple goatskin" deserves a raise; mine is one tough old goat). The upshot is that these chrome-tanned jackets are quite stable and durable; they'll look much the same after considerable wear. The proponents of veg-tanning say that such jackets will not just wear, but "age" with a rich patina and character (esp. the more lightly-dyed). The impression I've gotten is that they are also a bit more susceptible to shrinkage if carelessly treated. Veg-tanning is time-consuming, thus jacking the price up; chrome-tanning is more suitable for mass production. A "tell" for what it's worth is that if a jacket is veg-tanned, the manufacturer will tell you so; if he doesn't mention the tanning, it's probably chrome. Just my opinion from reading and actual tactile experience. If others think differently, chime in with your take on it.

 

[rocketeer]

One of the reasons goat takes a while to wear in is that though it is a fairly thin hide, it is very high on the abrasion resistance chart. So is probably better than a thicker steer/cow if you were to have a slide wearing it. I am also led to believe that Kangaroo is the top leather for abrasion resistance which is why it is used in some professional racing bike leathers.
Buying a second hand jacket, I personally would not be able to tell how it was tanned, especially something as old as an original wartime A2.

 

[Seb Lucas]

All the chrome tanned G&B goat jackets I've had (4) became very soft very quickly. The hide is thick 2.5 oz but the dye stays looking fresh not new for ages. I'm happy with that. There's grain and wrinkles and nice drape, but no fading. I like chrome tanned jackets. All the classic Brimaco, Buco and Brooks cafe racers are chrome tanned too.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Ditto for my G&B chrome tanned A-2. Great color and suppleness, even for cowhide. The more I wear it, the more obvious it becomes that this is one fine garment.

I suspect that the "veg tanning" thing is more sales hype than anything else. Hear come the slings and arrows...better duck quickly!

 

[Deacon211]

If I could jump on the question bandwagon...

I have a very nice Eastman G-1 which is veg tanned, aniline dyed, and has a sort of lacquer finish that makes it almost vinyl at first, but breaks in nicely.

I also have a GW M-422 on order and I was surprised to find that John was using chrome tanned leather that is much more in keeping with the modern G-1 I was issued in '92.

So, is it also true that G-1s/422s were made in both veg and chrome tanned leather and was this lacquer also a common treatment?

I'm just curious as to the historical origin of these methods.

Thanks!

Deacon

 

[bretron]

All the usn /anj jackets I've handled have been chrome...

 

[AustinTX]

Can we hear from any veg-tan fans out there? You're being made out to be suckers for hype with cash to burn. Get in here and fight!

 

[Seb Lucas]

Veg tanned is great too. A more mellow effect and fades and ages more readily. Not always about money. Wested used to have a veg tanned goat that was breath taking.

 

[Superfluous]

Can we hear from any veg-tan fans out there? You're being made out to be suckers for hype with cash to burn. Get in here and fight!

Lol!

I do not believe that Goodwear, Himel, RMC, Freewheelers, Eastman, and certain other respected leather jacket manufacturers use veg tanned hides for marketing purposes and/or to sucker their clientele. Rather, they perceive a genuine benefit to veg tanned hides. There must be something to it.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Lol!

I do not believe that Goodwear, Himel, RMC, Freewheelers, Eastman, and certain other respected leather jacket manufacturers use veg tanned hides for marketing purposes and/or to sucker their clientele. Rather, they perceive a genuine benefit to veg tanned hides. There must be something to it.

Yes, there is something to it...$$$!

 

[Will015]

Here's my basic understanding and does not represent actual fact. Chrome Tan is hard wearing and for the most part does not show variations in color/striations and is just generally more uniform. It can be worn in rain and is just generally more durable. Veg. Tanned leather tends to show more color variation and be a more "organic" wearing/aging leather and it should generally not be worn in the rain. I view chrome tanned leather as a more industrial product like plastic and Veg tanned leather as a more organic material like wood. Combination tanned seems to get the best of both worlds.

I would think that Himel, Goodwear, etc. are just going for a different aesthetic and a more rapidly aging garment. Something that looks like it's been yours for decades even though it's only been a year or two. I think they sell more to the raw denim, less to the pre washed denim crowd. Worn in individuality.

Again, all speculative and just how I see them based on a combination of personal experience and general internet research. No facts have been implied in this message.

 

[Sloan1874]

Here's my basic understanding and does not represent actual fact.

You're not exactly inspiring confidence with that opening gambit!

 

[AustinTX]

No facts have been implied in this message.

No facts were harmed in the making of this movie.

 

[lkalliance]

Can we hear from any veg-tan fans out there? You're being made out to be suckers for hype with cash to burn. Get in here and fight!

As a long-time user of Apple computers and products, I'm used to that label. But please continue on as I learn from this thread as well.

 

[B-24J]

Here's my basic understanding and does not represent actual fact. Chrome Tan is hard wearing and for the most part does not show variations in color/striations and is just generally more uniform. It can be worn in rain and is just generally more durable. Veg. Tanned leather tends to show more color variation and be a more "organic" wearing/aging leather and it should generally not be worn in the rain. I view chrome tanned leather as a more industrial product like plastic and Veg tanned leather as a more organic material like wood. Combination tanned seems to get the best of both worlds.

I would think that Himel, Goodwear, etc. are just going for a different aesthetic and a more rapidly aging garment. Something that looks like it's been yours for decades even though it's only been a year or two. I think they sell more to the raw denim, less to the pre washed denim crowd. Worn in individuality.

Again, all speculative and just how I see them based on a combination of personal experience and general internet research. No facts have been implied in this message.

Hi Will015,

If you need a reference, get a copy of "British Leather, a Record of Achievement" 1946.

The book recounts the leather trade for the war effort.

On page 26 it talks about how chrome leather remains supple in extreme conditions. Obviously a plus during war conditions. You wouldn't want your flying jacket stiffing up at 20,000 + feet!

John

 

[Stormpaw]

If I remember correctly chrome tanned leather is quick and easy to produce (better for mass production) and more resistant to water. However, the chemical process is more damaging to the hide, and the leather won't age as well or last as long.

Vegetable tanned leather takes much longer and requires more care to produce (and costs more as a result), but ages naturally and if properly cared for will last longer.

Stormpaw

 

[aswatland]

It is worth pointing out the Good Wear offer at three chrome tanned hides to make A2s, along with plenty of veg tanned ones on their website. So there is a choice for the discerning customer.