US Bomber Jackets

[Plumbline]

There are plenty of good A-2 jackets out there .... the issue is that they are ( mostly) not what the vast majority of TFL users prefer ... this is a "Golden Era" forum and as such the main preference is Golden Era fit and style ( an issue I have fallen foul of many times with my preference for looser fit jackets and lower crown hats ( even my taste in jeans is much lower rise than many on here )

I had a "Cooper" A2 about 20 years ago and it was a great jacket and at $150 was awesome value for money .. in fact the guy I sold it to is still wearing it and loves it .. so much so he bought one of their G1's as well ( he doesn't really care that the Mouton Collar is actually acrylic).

If you want an A2 current issue jacket these can be picked up for @$200 - 300 and they're decent jackets ..... if you want a stitch accurate replica from JC then that's the thick end of $1200 ...... will it last longer and will Joe Average be able to spot the difference ... probably not. The nerdy guys and gals on here will though ( and I count myself one of those nerds) just as they can spot an Aero at 30 paces and can tell the difference between chrome tanned and veg tanned leather simply by smell ( yes this is a joke )

Enjoy the jacket and ignore the jacket snobbery ..... price may be an indication of quality but it's certainly no guarantee ...... if you like it, wear it .... hard and often

 

[rocketeer]

My old Eastman form the 1980s, bought secondhand(not pre-owned or pre-loved) had a bit of a blouson effect. I took a this fitted a little large but not too baggy back in the mid 1990s and still fits today with room to spare. I think I have gone up a few sizes since then but the jacket still fits though has a really bad off the shoulder look about it.
Not the best photo but you can see how baggy a waist it has.
(I have since added a patch to this)

 

[nick123]

I think it's hard to argue a pricier repro better "looks the part", but I enjoy my cheaper Alpha leather MA-1 and other jackets under the $400 price point far more than I ever have with a $1000 one. Less fuss and worry. I actually hold the belief that these "oversized, inaccurate" jackets fit in far better at the local airport than a tip top repro. The idea is that you go flying to fly, not to look in the mirror. And there is a distinct elegance to these beloved "cheaper" A-2s, which while not literal, have a romantic charm to them that fits right in with aviation's lineage of using your jacket as little more than a tool to safely man an aircraft. The cheaper jackets have that utilitarian vibe going for them. Where my infatuation with them ends is if they're not durable.

 

[Seb Lucas]

There are plenty of good A-2 jackets out there .... the issue is that they are ( mostly) not what the vast majority of TFL users prefer ... this is a "Golden Era" forum and as such the main preference is Golden Era fit and style ( an issue I have fallen foul of many times with my preference for looser fit jackets and lower crown hats ( even my taste in jeans is much lower rise than many on here )

I had a "Cooper" A2 about 20 years ago and it was a great jacket and at $150 was awesome value for money .. in fact the guy I sold it to is still wearing it and loves it .. so much so he bought one of their G1's as well ( he doesn't really care that the Mouton Collar is actually acrylic).

If you want an A2 current issue jacket these can be picked up for @$200 - 300 and they're decent jackets ..... if you want a stitch accurate replica from JC then that's the thick end of $1200 ...... will it last longer and will Joe Average be able to spot the difference ... probably not. The nerdy guys and gals on here will though ( and I count myself one of those nerds) just as they can spot an Aero at 30 paces and can tell the difference between chrome tanned and veg tanned leather simply by smell ( yes this is a joke )

Enjoy the jacket and ignore the jacket snobbery ..... price may be an indication of quality but it's certainly no guarantee ...... if you like it, wear it .... hard and often

No, snobbery isn't always the issue Plumb.

I am not interested in stitch for stitch copies or in paying $1000 plus. Nor do I care what brand I wear. Not do I like my jackets trim. I prefer them a little roomy. But A2's require deft patterning. Since you brought up the Cooper A2 - they are simply awful looking to my eyes. It's the classic example of the A2 not working as an attractive design. I've tried them on and I've seen them on others and to my eyes they make everyone, even a reed slim 20 year-old, look like a pudgy middle aged accountant.

I think Technonut may have found a good option with the $300 Morgan. That's what I'm talking about. For me it doesn't have to be the reputation of the maker or the leather used or the price. It's a simple case of competent patterning in my book.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Lining not of correct color (doesn't 'look' to be of cotton either, but could be)... No sewn-through leather hanger... Armholes look too large... Doesn't appear to be much forearm taper... Epaulets look as if they will roll towards the front when worn, and not centered... Pocket flaps have no scallop to them... Body shape looks 'off', compared to the more 'bell-shaped' originals.

Personally, I wouldn't purchase if it were on-sale for $100.00.. But that's just me. I've been wearing / owning A-2's for around 30 years, and I find ones like pictured above 'soulless' renditions of the originals, lacking in the details which strike a chord with me when thinking of an A-2 flight jacket...

Yes, it's fairly obvious when an A2 doesn't look right.I would not want to be seen wearing something like that. But if others like it that's entirely their business.

Since this site is about celebrating the Golden Era and what was great about it, the A2 is one of those items to rejoice in and when it gets corrupted by modern pattern makers seeking to fit... wider bodies... it's a source of disappointment if not rancor.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

So those folks with wider bodies are guilty of corruption when it comes to A-2's? Maybe we could have a weigh-in whenever we log in. Just to make sure that our bodies fit the "slim" design and intent of the original A-2 makers.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Technonut - how would I order a Morgan A2 and get the right sizing? I had a look at on line and it sounds like I need a size 48 to get the length. (I generally wear a 40 or 42) I am six feet two so maybe I can't be accommodated.

 

[Seb Lucas]

So those folks with wider bodies are guilty of corruption when it comes to A-2's? Maybe we could have a weigh-in whenever we log in. Just to make sure that our bodies fit the "slim" design and intent of the original A-2 makers.

I agree. I think anyone taller or heavier than the period accurate sizing of of 5 ft 9 and 150 pounds should be disqualified from coming on here and talking about A2's. Oh wait a minute...

 

[TXFlyGuy]

My employer used to make the flight attendants step on the scales for a "weigh-in" prior to reporting for work. One pound over, and they were pulled off the trip, and a young hardbody was substituted. Oh, the good old days. For the record, this was before the days of males working in the aircraft cabin. And no, I'm not that old.

 

[TREEMAN]

My employer used to make the flight attendants step on the scales for a "weigh-in" prior to reporting for work. One pound over, and they were pulled off the trip, and a young hardbody was substituted. Oh, the good old days. For the record, this was before the days of males working in the aircraft cabin. And no, I'm not that old.

Those were the days.........That's when flying was fun!!

 

[Technonut]

Technonut - how would I order a Morgan A2 and get the right sizing? I had a look at on line and it sounds like I need a size 48 to get the length. (I generally wear a 40 or 42) I am six feet two so maybe I can't be accommodated.

Unfortunately, I cannot be much help in that area. I know that the Morgan Production A-2's are sold primarily through Nakata Shoten in Japan, and other Japanese sites. As posted, I purchased the jacket directly from the late Col. Robert K. Morgan's (pilot of the 'Memphis Belle') Wife, Linda Morgan, who owns Morgan Productions here in the States.

Mrs. Morgan and I were in contact with one another, and knowing my interest in A-2 jackets, shared her story of how Col. Morgan and herself traveled to Japan on a few occasions during the mid-late 90's to give input on the jacket design / quality of the Morgan Productions 'Memphis Belle' A-2. The jackets were in the works by Nakata Shoten during that time to be carried in the military surplus stores they are known for. Emphasis was placed on correct wartime details / pattern, and quality materials, to provide the best 'budget' jacket they could, as an alternative to the 'higher-end' Japanese A-2's. IMO, they succeeded in spades..

Anyway, Mrs. Morgan surprised me one day by informing me that she ran-across 3 brand-new horsehide Morgan Productions A-2's in her closet... 2 size 44's, and a 46. I asked her to take measurements while we were on the phone, found the 44 'spot-on' (EDIT: Except for the sleeves being 1" too long, which was OK, knowing I'll replace the knits and have them shortened eventually), and purchased the jacket.

I wish I could be of more help, and sincerely hope that you find a size which works. It's hard to believe that the jackets have been produced for around 20 years, with so few seen in the States. I have NEVER ran across another horsehide A-2 with the majority of period details correct at such a low price in my life, and as I posted, the hide is actually quite nice. In fact, much better than USA-sourced horsehide jackets I've personally owned at over double the price...

 

[Seb Lucas]

44, huh...? Would you mind sharing - how tall are you and what is the back length of
that jacket (including the knits)?

 

[Hypoxic]

After trying out several other brands, my best fitting A2 is still my ebay purchased Cooper. Believe I paid about $150 for it in like new condition. Love that jacket, almost as much as my G&B G-1.

 

[Deacon211]

So those folks with wider bodies are guilty of corruption when it comes to A-2's? Maybe we could have a weigh-in whenever we log in. Just to make sure that our bodies fit the "slim" design and intent of the original A-2 makers.

LOL, these conversations are always rousing. I kind of sit in the middle.

There's nothing wrong with a $300 (or cheaper) jacket IMO. Some of them are quite nice. And I do agree that there is a non-linear cost/quality curve as you progress up the ladder....not always justified I think.

I do regret though, that there are relatively few options for an accurate WWII era jacket at the lower end of the price range. I get the argument that modern era jackets are made for modern era bodies. Poorly, I submit though. In my career in the military, servicemen have gotten beefier, but not fatter. If many a WWII GI had arms no thicker than a Garand barrel, some of the young hard chargers that I saw when I retired were swinging M-16s around like pistols.

As such, a true military jacket may be made broad, without looking like a shapeless sack. The fact that this is not the case is purely the consequence of production which replaces "fast" for "good", I think.

I just received a Cockpit 100 Mission G-1, which has rapidly become one of my favorite jackets. At $600+, it's no bargain. But it fits remarkably and I lost the figure of a dashing hussar long ago. So it is entirely possible to make a nicely tapered mass market(ish) jacket for less than $1000.

Of course the main jacket manufacturers aren't making (in the main) jackets for reedy 20 year olds, or even beefy 2nd Lieutenants. They are making them for an increasingly large population. Thus there's no surprise that jackets are being made broader.

There's nothing wrong with that naturally, and no weight requirements necessary here I think (although I noticed at my company that flight attendant's waistlines increased in inverse proportion to their attitudes).

But, as always in my own opinion, at some point an A-2 enlarges to become, well, not much an A-2. Which, for such a classic jacket, I think is a shame.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Deacon - Let me shirt tail your comments. Another thing to consider is how many 20-35 year olds today are interested in a classic fitting A-2? And if they are, how many have the disposable income to allow such a purchase? The mass market has no interest in stitch count, arm or back length, shoulder width, etc. They just want a jacket (leather?) that is warm, fits OK, and is easily affordable. And maybe would desire a style that would put them in the "mainstream". And the marketing departments of the major retailers (and thus, manufacturers) cater to this group because that is where the $$$ is.

I would guess that there is not one person on this forum who would be categorized as mainstream. Not by a long shot.

 

[Technonut]

44, huh...? Would you mind sharing - how tall are you and what is the back length of
that jacket (including the knits)?

Sure thing... I'm 5' 11.5", and the back length on the size 44 is: 24.75". Close to the 25" I have seen listed for quite a few original size 44 A-2's coming up for sale over the years. EDIT: IIRC, the size 46's length is 26" (1.25" added for the size-up)...

EDIT: Here is a pic from one of the Japanese sites showing the jacket also:

More thumbnails (click to enlarge):

 

[rocketeer]

I agree. I think anyone taller or heavier than the period accurate sizing of of 5 ft 9 and 150 pounds should be disqualified from coming on here and talking about A2's. Oh wait a minute...

Hey don't forget all us 50 year old 15 stone '2nd Lt' reenactors from Basildon(UK) out there. We need to get the look right so folks can see how it was back in the day

 

[ButteMT61]

I was at a WWII dual-front battle with almost 300 guys who generally speaking, are very critical and fanatical about the gear. A few GI's had really shit G1/A2 jackets and it made me really upset. I think they think nobody will know but God, they looked ridiculous. Just a point from a different angle.

 

[El Marro]

TXFlyGuy,
I had to nod my head and chuckle when I read your comment about us loungers being far out of the mainstream. I'm an electrician, and the guys I work with would be dumbfounded to hear us dicusssing "budget" jackets that cost $200-$600!

 

[TXFlyGuy]

TXFlyGuy,
I had to nod my head and chuckle when I read your comment about us loungers being far out of the mainstream. I'm an electrician, and the guys I work with would be dumbfounded to hear us dicusssing "budget" jackets that cost $200-$600!

I think $99 is close to a budget jacket for most folks!