US Authentic (flightjacket.com) A2 fit.

[Lord Flashheart]

Hello again all. Some of you remember my post earlier looking for thoughts on an A2 from either US Authentic or Aerial Star. After a bit of advice from you guys I was leaning towards an Aerial Star A2 with slash pockets rather than patch pockets. I emailed both companies for a bit of sizing advice and a few other questions. Aerial Star are yet to respond but Shaul from US-A has been right on the ball. I'm just a bit confused by his sizing advice.

I am 6'3 with a 43 inch chest. all my jackets are either a size 42 or 44. The US-A website recommend measuring a suit or sports jacket that fits well and use that as a guide for your order. My suite jacket measures 54cm across the front and I have a Gibson & Barnes G1 which I also measured which comes in at 62cm pit to pit. I assume Shaul recommends a suit jacket as the A2 is a more neat/military fit?

Shauls recommendation was that i order a size 48 which he advises has a 71cm chest measurement and 102cm sleeves. Am I missing something? Surely I would be swimming in a jacket that size?

Do any of you guys of a similar size to me own one of theses jackets and if so, what size is your jacket and how do you find the fit?

I must say Shaul has been great, very prompt in responding to questions and more than happy to send me some swatches of his leather. I'm a bit disappointed that Aerial Star has not come back to me as I was keen on the A2 but the US-A A2 does look like a lot of jacket for the $$$$$$.

regards

Garry

 

[Seb Lucas]

What?!

A 44 or 46 I can imagine but a 48 with a 28 inch pit to pit sounds crazy. I generally tell makers I like to wear a pit to pit of 22-23 inches and they can then tell me what they have in that vicinity since 42,44, 46 are rather variable sizes. For instance, I am a 46 in Brooks Cafe racer, a 40 in a G&B. In measurements I am a 40-41 chest, Shaul told me I need a 42 reg but a 40 US-A A2 is 23 inches in the chest, plenty large enough. I wonder if he likes jackets to be voluminous.

 

[thor]

I am 6' 1" with a 43" chest. I used to have a U.S. Authentic A-2 in a size 44 Long. It had a military trim fit. A size 46 would have been a looser fit but still acceptable. I think the 48 would have been way too large for me.

 

[Fanch]

Another alternative would be a "historic" G&B A-2 Model 43 in mahogany (dark brown) horsehide in size 40T (tall) which fits me just fine. As a point of reference I am 6'2" and have a 42" chest and think my G&B would fit you better than it does me. Keep in mind that labels vary greatly from one manufacturer to another and relevant only to the specific manufacturer.

 

[Banzai]

First, I highly recommend US Authentic. Great product, particularly at that price. And Shaul has been beyond patient in dealing with me this past month or more, truly above and beyond what you would expect for the relatively low cost of his product. I've had some drama regarding a poor size selection, an attempted alteration, then a decision to just go with the next size up. He's put up with e-mails, alterations request, etc., etc.

My own sizing issues may illuminate this question. I have a 37" chest, and almost a 30" waist. (sometimes 29", depending on the time of day and recent meals.) But I'm darn close to a "drop 8" in jacket sizing.

I sent him measurements for a suit jacket, and based on what I sent, he recommended a custom 36 short for me. Here's the rub; that jacket was a very well fit, custom tailored, "38" with a drop-8 waist/midsection. It's my favorite jacket, and I can see how he settled on 36 for his recommendation. When it comes to sport coats that are off-the-rack, I wear either a slim cut 38, or I size down to a 36 so the jacket isn't balloon-like. Shaul effectively recommended the size-down-to-36 option.

Problem is, that doesn't work in leather. The jacket was tight through the shoulders, upper arm, and across the back...but it did fit around the torso very nicely.

I recently ordered a 38, and as expected, it's a bit too big. But, Shaul is now tapering the waist and body to give me a 38 slim and short. Now THAT'S customer service!

US-A jackets, I would say, fit VERY true. For my 37" chest, 36 was a touch small, 38 a touch large. Can't get more accurate than that.

The chest across (pit-to-pit) on the 36 was 20" at best. On the 38 was nearly 22". Ideally in an A-2 you'd like to have between 4"-6" of extra room over your true chest for movement. Any less, like the 3" the 36 gave me, is too tight. More, like the 7" the 38 gives me, is starting to feel a little bit loose, but still wearable.

I get the impression he's started recently recommending larger sizes to customers based on returns and his own data for what people are preferring off of their measurements. People who don't hang out on TFL want baggy jackets. Gibson and Barnes specs between 10" and 12" of movement room in the chest of their jackets, and they are very commercially successful. I suppose that, like any good businessman, Shaul is imitating commercial success with his recommendations now.

 

[tmitchell59]

I'm 5'9" about 200 I had the U.S. Authentic A-2 sized 44 purchased on ebay. I typically wear a 44 for best fit, certainly where I start. If I buy another of their jackets it would be a 42. The 44 was just a bit full, but some people like to wear a sweater. It was a very nice jacket so that was not an issue.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Generally if you know your measurements across shoulders, chest, sleeve and back length you should be able to tell the maker what fits out of their range. I've yet to have anything not fit me well since I worked this out. The only variable is knits and where you want these to fall - waist or hips.

 

[Capesofwrath]

First, I highly recommend US Authentic. Great product, particularly at that price. And Shaul has been beyond patient in dealing with me this past month or more, truly above and beyond what you would expect for the relatively low cost of his product. I've had some drama regarding a poor size selection, an attempted alteration, then a decision to just go with the next size up. He's put up with e-mails, alterations request, etc., etc.

My own sizing issues may illuminate this question. I have a 37" chest, and almost a 30" waist. (sometimes 29", depending on the time of day and recent meals.) But I'm darn close to a "drop 8" in jacket sizing.

I sent him measurements for a suit jacket, and based on what I sent, he recommended a custom 36 short for me. Here's the rub; that jacket was a very well fit, custom tailored, "38" with a drop-8 waist/midsection. It's my favorite jacket, and I can see how he settled on 36 for his recommendation. When it comes to sport coats that are off-the-rack, I wear either a slim cut 38, or I size down to a 36 so the jacket isn't balloon-like. Shaul effectively recommended the size-down-to-36 option.

Problem is, that doesn't work in leather. The jacket was tight through the shoulders, upper arm, and across the back...but it did fit around the torso very nicely.

I recently ordered a 38, and as expected, it's a bit too big. But, Shaul is now tapering the waist and body to give me a 38 slim and short. Now THAT'S customer service!

US-A jackets, I would say, fit VERY true. For my 37" chest, 36 was a touch small, 38 a touch large. Can't get more accurate than that.

The chest across (pit-to-pit) on the 36 was 20" at best. On the 38 was nearly 22". Ideally in an A-2 you'd like to have between 4"-6" of extra room over your true chest for movement. Any less, like the 3" the 36 gave me, is too tight. More, like the 7" the 38 gives me, is starting to feel a little bit loose, but still wearable.

I get the impression he's started recently recommending larger sizes to customers based on returns and his own data for what people are preferring off of their measurements. People who don't hang out on TFL want baggy jackets. Gibson and Barnes specs between 10" and 12" of movement room in the chest of their jackets, and they are very commercially successful. I suppose that, like any good businessman, Shaul is imitating commercial success with his recommendations now.

Most makers of A2 Type jackets quote 4” over your true chest size for a good fit and less if you don’t want to wear even a light sweater under it. G&B’s 10” to 12” is massive if that really is what they spec. My issue with this type of jacket has away been tight armholes if the jacket fits on the chest. But they are quite tightish across the back and meant to be.

The sizing tips on Eastman A2’s on the History Preservation website are useful. He points out that if you can cross your arms easily wearing an A2 then it is going to be too big for a trim fit. He also says that in practise no one walks around with their arms crossed habitually so it really isn’t a good test of fit.

 

[Banzai]

The thing about an A-2 is that it's utility wear. You don't want it to look like a sloppy sack, but if tightness in the back, shoulders, and upper arm is impeding movement, then it's really not functionally correct either. Sure, crossing ones arms should be snug, even perhaps tight, but a certain range of up and forward movement should be routinely easy. I don't want to strain against a jacket every time I stretch to reset the altimeter, or push the throttles forward, or reach for the gear handle.

Sure, no one flies with them now, but people used to, and both form and function needed to come together.

 

[JWG]

Haven't posted in quite a while but here goes nothing. I think too much thought is put into A2 sizes. Go onto websites that show crew photos from say the 100th Bomb Group or any of the others and in my humble opinion you'll see the majority having a looser, more comfortable drape. Many times when I have seen a photo of a snug A2 upon closer inspection you'll see the airman wearing a shirt and tie under a flight suit. No, this is not absolute, but probably more than half.

Wear what's comfortable, they did.

 

[Ralph_Phillips]

The size concept of thin and tight fit ignores the fact that people back in the 1930's and 1940's were scrawny as can be, and trying to squeeze into the same sizes they wore is a mistake.

If anyone remembers the film "12 O'Clock High" wherein Gregory Peck went full on monkey bar mode and climbed into a B-17 through an escape hatch so he could look better than everyone else...he was wearing an A2 and couldn't have done that if it was fitted as tightly as a lot of forum members prefer.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Not sure anyone's endorcing a thin and tight fit, whatever that is. What some of us believe is that a baggy A2 looks pretty awful and is undesirable and so is the ultra short, one size too small, Japanese fit that some of the kids seem to enjoy. A trim fit A2 however looks the business and this is as much the cut of the pattern as what size you wear. Sure it might just be a question of taste, but questions of taste is what this site is about.

 

[nick123]

I've noticed in cinemas that often the jackets tend to be on the bigger side. 12 O' Clock is a good example.

Anyhow, a long time ago Shaul recommended sizing down on an A-2. Not sure if that still stands.

 

[Ralph_Phillips]

Shaul recommended two sizes to me and I haven't ordered the custom one yet. One of his recommendations was 48R for a roomier fit (which is what I prefer so I can move) and based on actual jacket measurements, that 48R should be perfect at the top, or a 46R for a slim fit. For reference, I'm exactly the same size I was 25 years ago, which is 6'1" with an exact 48" chest measurement and a 35" waist, and in a suit, a 48L feels constricted...a 50R is fine up top too but at the waist that 50R is feels like a skirt.

 

[Capesofwrath]

Haven't posted in quite a while but here goes nothing. I think too much thought is put into A2 sizes. Go onto websites that show crew photos from say the 100th Bomb Group or any of the others and in my humble opinion you'll see the majority having a looser, more comfortable drape. Many times when I have seen a photo of a snug A2 upon closer inspection you'll see the airman wearing a shirt and tie under a flight suit. No, this is not absolute, but probably more than half.

Wear what's comfortable, they did.

My favourite authentic fit picture.

Of course they were wearing it as a utility jacket as a part of the uniform and took what the quartermaster gave them. But we wear jackets like these because we like the look of them mostly.

 

[Fanch]

Capes you are dead on with your assessment; these guys wore what was issued to them as I did. My USN issued G-1 fit me a bit better than the tall airman's A-2 but not much better, and the knits didn't reach my wrist for a "stork arms" look and feel, although compensated in the cockpit with flight glooves. We definitely "wear jackets like these because we like the look of them mostly" and tend to seek seek perfection in appearance, construction, and fit.

 

[kowalski]

Hello friends and fans jackets A2 , jacket is with me


After shortening US auth A2 of size 44 for size 42 ; sleeves, chest, length jackets, waist circumference;Small differences (it only 2'' out) that may be invisible but feels that it is better; Under the jacket is only thin T - shirt !

Thanks for Shaul Dover
good job!!

 

[kowalski]

And Before shortening ;under the jacket is thick sweater
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[Lord Flashheart]

Thanks for the reponses lads and sorry for taking so long to come back onto the thread.

I think if I go go through US-A for an A2 I will ignore Shauls advice having read what you guys have suggested about the sizes which fit you. I'm not a reinactor or a stickler for a spot on copy of any of the A2 contracts, I just want a jacket that fits well and will improve with age. I still can't figure out why Shaul recomended such a large size for me since most of you guys have been recomended sizes around what your actual measurements are. I'm Tall (6'3) and weigh in at around 100Kg's (220lbs) which is about 5kg's over my fighting weight and am a 36/38 waist so I dont feel I'm excessively large in the belly region. Confusion reigns!
Actually, Kowalski's photos are pretty much bang on how I would like the fit to look, can I ask what your height and weight you are Kowalski and how you are finding the jacket is wearing? I'm really after a jacket that will show patina over time and loose that uniform colour which is arrives with. I have read other reviews of US-A leathers and appears to be chrome tanned and that the coating they put on the leather does not genrally wear into the same patina you would get with Veg tanning so perhaps the US-A jacket is not for me?
I'm a little dissapointed that Aerial Star has not responded to my e-mail as their products look pretty good and I was keen on their civilain/slash pocket A2. Do we know if they are still in opperation? I might give them a call and see whats going on.

 

[kowalski]

Hi
I'm 5,10" and 165lbs chest it 43'' and waist 31-32

best regards