Unseen In The Worse Places [Blackjacks & Saps]

[Feraud]

Vintage kung fu maybe but not quite a handy piece of pocket protection.

 

[erikb02809]

I've been more of a lurker (as opposed to a contributor) for the last couple of years, so forgive me if I'm overstepping my bounds here...

But am I the only one who finds it distasteful that this thread has to some extent devolved from "hey, old timey blackjacks and saps, aren't those neat?" sorta thing to a bunch of vintage fashion enthusiasts talking about their preferred method of socking it to belligerent drunks?

I'm no pacifist, having been in my fair share of scuffles and also having boxed and trained in a few different martial arts. That said, I find the atmosphere in this thread to be beneath what I've come to expect reading on the Fedora Lounge.

I guess I can see how the path of discussion meandered in the direction it did, with the title of the thread and all, but this is a thread in a vintage fashion forum, in "General Attire & Accouterments". I think I may speak for more than just myself when I say that weighing the pros and cons of traditional Okinawan martial arts implements vs. electrical conduit vs. a role of quarters as weaponry, or "head shots" vs. "nad shots" is somewhat out of place in a less-than-dignified sort of way in such a forum dedicated to the ins and outs of vintage fashion.

It is not my intention to engage in ad hominem attacks, so I'll stop here, lest my words be interpreted as such. Just felt the need to share is all.

Hey, looks like I contributed [huh]

 

[John in Covina]

I've been more of a lurker (as opposed to a contributor) for the last couple of years, so forgive me if I'm overstepping my bounds here...

But am I the only one who finds it distasteful that this thread has to some extent devolved from "hey, old timey blackjacks and saps, aren't those neat?" sorta thing to a bunch of vintage fashion enthusiasts talking about their preferred method of socking it to belligerent drunks?

I'm no pacifist, having been in my fair share of scuffles and also having boxed and trained in a few different martial arts. That said, I find the atmosphere in this thread to be beneath what I've come to expect reading on the Fedora Lounge.

I guess I can see how the path of discussion meandered in the direction it did, with the title of the thread and all, but this is a thread in a vintage fashion forum, in "General Attire & Accouterments". I think I may speak for more than just myself when I say that weighing the pros and cons of traditional Okinawan martial arts implements vs. electrical conduit vs. a role of quarters as weaponry, or "head shots" vs. "nad shots" is somewhat out of place in a less-than-dignified sort of way in such a forum dedicated to the ins and outs of vintage fashion.

It is not my intention to engage in ad hominem attacks, so I'll stop here, lest my words be interpreted as such. Just felt the need to share is all.

Hey, looks like I contributed [huh]

Always the moral highground approach and coupled with the standard "I don't really mean it this way BUT..."

Even the Boyscouts know the concept: "Be Prepared" because if you you don't have a plan you're sucking wind. Golden Era gentleman often lived in areas where violence occured much like today whether rural small town or big city. Many went thru WWII and they knew how to "Take Care Of Business." It's the difference between idealists and people that live in the real world. The real world is a dirty place where a lot of bad things happen and if you are unprepared then bad things can happen to you whether by bad people or from the realm of nature like an earthquake.

Now I will throw out a couple of cautionS:
As written in the article about these, it's easy to kill or maim someone with these. If it's illegal in your area it may change the ability to plead self defense and having to respond to a higher charge. Much like a bar fight if you use a pool cue stick in your defense you are in a different realm with the prosecutor. While it's better to judged by 12 than carried by 6 a lengthy trial is punishment in itself and will change your life and financial standing in the community even if found not guilty.

Over in the gun stuff they have asked we don't discuss ammo, what happens when you use it and the favored areas on the body for immediate incapacitation because some people are a bit taken aback by such discussion. We may need to temper our remarks here also.

Personally I like hearing the blood and guts stories as it's a reference for red alert response time and I consider some of the info as lessons heard because as my dad used to say: "Life is a bitch, there are no promises for anything to be fair and you got to know that in this life."

 

[erikb02809]

No, I mean exactly what I wrote. And it's not a matter of morals, it's a matter of taste. We're on a vintage fashion forum, and there's discussion of nad shots and beating people. I don't have a beef with anyone personally, merely the content of the thread as it has evolved, which is why I specified I did not intend my criticism to be taken personally. I recommend reading what's on the lines and not imaging what's in between them.

If we were on a preparedness forum, self defense forum, martial arts forum, weaponry discussion group forum, etc, I would not have a criticism to make. My point is that to my understanding, we're in a forum dedicated to the discussion of vintage fashion, and discussion of the matters mentioned above seemed distastefully out of place. I was sharing my 2 cents. I don't want to distract from the discussion of 'vintage' beating implements any further, so if you wish to continue discussing the merits of my last post, please feel free to PM me.

 

[John in Covina]

The thread title is pretty self explanitory.

 

[erikb02809]

So is what I wrote. I'm getting tired of repeating myself - in a nutshell the thread went from talking about vintage saps (I've got no problem with that really) to talking about preferred methods of beating belligerent drunks with improvised devices, in the 'nads' among other places. You don't think that's out of place in a subforum called "General Attire and Accouterments" on a forum called "The Fedora Lounge"?!?!?!

Give me a break.

 

[Feraud]

We are not strictly vintage fashion but delve into all topics from the past like homes, cars, motorcycles, bicycles, aircraft, music, applicances, art, books, cameras, firearms, etc. Blackjacks, saps, switchblades are part of the era. Sometimes the conversation strays. It happens.

If you want to strictly chat style join us in the suits and outwear rooms.

 

[erikb02809]

Before this devolves into a flame war, I'd just like to state I stand by what I wrote, and think that my stance is more than legitimate. My critique is of the appropriateness of the course of the discussion given the setting and membership, and not of the people participating in it. Said critique was made with benign intention, with some small hope that perhaps we'd benefit from leaving sand box stories of bravado and machisom out of further discussion, being that we are all mature gentlemen and ladies here at the FL.


John, if you want to question my criticism by insinuating I'm taking some sort of self-righteous moral stance, and/or am having some sort of intellectual difficulty reconciling the course of discussion with the the title of the thread, despite the fact we're in a fashion oriented forum, then so be it. Your behavior speaks for itself. I'll leave it at that. I will not further participate in such discussion, so say what you will. I'm through with this line of discussion.

 

[up196]

Very well

. . . we're in a forum dedicated to the discussion of vintage fashion . . .

It's refreshing to see that some items of clothing are still made the way they used to be.

Fechheimer uniform pants with sap pockets:

 

[erikb02809]

Sorry Feraud, I was typing my response while you must've been typing yours. I stand by my objection of discussion of strikes to the 'nads' and such, but defer to your judgment as Bartender, as I must. I'll leave this thread alone.

 

[erikb02809]

It's refreshing to see that some items of clothing are still made the way they used to be.

Fechheimer uniform pants with sap pockets:

touche sir.

 

[Feraud]

Sorry Feraud, I was typing my response while you must've been typing yours. I stand by my objection of discussion of strikes to the 'nads' and such, but defer to your judgment as Bartender, as I must. I'll leave this thread alone.

I am not speaking "officially" as a 'tender but wanted to clarify an important point. We do not strictly discuss clothing and sometimes the conversation strays.
Your comments may help steer the conversation back on course.

 

[Chainsaw]

I've been more of a lurker (as opposed to a contributor) for the last couple of years, so forgive me if I'm overstepping my bounds here...

But am I the only one who finds it distasteful that this thread has to some extent devolved from "hey, old timey blackjacks and saps, aren't those neat?" sorta thing to a bunch of vintage fashion enthusiasts talking about their preferred method of socking it to belligerent drunks?

I'm no pacifist, having been in my fair share of scuffles and also having boxed and trained in a few different martial arts. That said, I find the atmosphere in this thread to be beneath what I've come to expect reading on the Fedora Lounge.

I guess I can see how the path of discussion meandered in the direction it did, with the title of the thread and all, but this is a thread in a vintage fashion Njforum, in "General Attire & Accouterments". I think I may speak for more than just myself when I say that weighing the pros and cons of traditional Okinawan martial arts implements vs. electrical conduit vs. a role of quarters as weaponry, or "head shots" vs. "nad shots" is somewhat out of place in a less-than-dignified sort of way in such a forum dedicated to the ins and outs of vintage fashion.

It is not my intention to engage in ad hominem attacks, so I'll stop here, lest my words be interpreted as such. Just felt the need to share is all.

Hey, looks like I contributed [huh]

Erik, I remember this one time, I saved all my money from doing back breaking labour, when I was in high school. Me, my buddy Tony, and my buddy Alwin, go downtown for a walkabout.

We check out a few different places, then we end up at a martial arts store. I practice martial arts, and various things, and I decided to get some climbing spikes, that go on your hands so you can climb walls et-cetera. As I'm paying for them some dumb broad says, "your not going to use those things on someone are you?" I said to her "Honey, you in the wrong store if you got a problem with these"

On a lighter note, I'd love one of those black Jacks. 21's my favorite game!

 

[up196]

touche sir.

Obviously received in the manner intended!

 

[Colonel]

... We're on a vintage fashion forum...

Regardless of this little "sub thread", I'll mention that I discovered The Fedora Lounge while doing a Google search for a "Kelly Kettle" - a small kettle used to boil water using sticks, leaves, and other "stuff" picked up in the woods. That's about as far from "fashion" as it gets.

 

[Neophyte]

Regardless of this little "sub thread", I'll mention that I discovered The Fedora Lounge while doing a Google search for a "Kelly Kettle" - a small kettle used to boil water using sticks, leaves, and other "stuff" picked up in the woods. That's about as far from "fashion" as it gets.

lol

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Picked this oldie from a local antique mall. $8. Its age has caused some of the coating to deteriorate allowing us to see the internal construction of cable wire.

I promise not to hit anyone in the 'nads, unless they are very fashionable vintage 'nads.

 

[John in Covina]

Regardless of this little "sub thread", I'll mention that I discovered The Fedora Lounge while doing a Google search for a "Kelly Kettle" - a small kettle used to boil water using sticks, leaves, and other "stuff" picked up in the woods. That's about as far from "fashion" as it gets.

I think I saw these in a Wade and Garrett catalog.
When you use it to hit somebody is there suppoded to be fire coming out of it?

 

[John in Covina]

fftopic: TRUE STORY: A long time ago I was looking for men's ties on ebay and somebody had a listing with a picture of an East German "Come-a-long" that the police used there. They had no idea what it was and had listed it as a tie bar and chain! :eusa_doh: I wrote them in the ask a question field to clear things up (from the Fashion & violence theme)

 

[Vintage lover]

I would be more interested in a sap as opposed to a baton. I prefer tools of self defense that you tuck into your waist band, and then forget about. I once bought a collapsible police baton only to realize that I couldn't carry it without it either being uncomfortable or indiscreet.