Unpopular music opinions

[eveready]

Hey...I just noticed the video is incorrectly titled.... Not to mention the picture.....

 

[Yeps]

I was just categorizing rap by the definition of music as it was taught to me in a music appreciation class. Music by definition is composed of the three elements that I mentioned. If rap music is missing an element, I surmised that it is not “music” by definition, but a musical art form.

Music technically needs to be composed of three elements: melody, rhythm, and chords.

A more appropriate statement of you elements would be: pitch, rhythm, and harmony.

The reason I chose replaced melody with pitch is that in a lot of late 19th and early 20th century music (Debussy and Stravinsky come to mind, not to say that neither of them wrote melodies. They wrote some beautiful melodies) as well as much of the music before the 18th century, there are pieces of music which are completely devoid of anything that could truly be called melody. So, pitch seems to be the essential quality, not melody.

Likewise chords should be replaced by harmony, since the concept of chords is a relatively modern one, dating back only to the late 18th century. Harmony, while it can refer to a specific set of rules, also from the 18th century, can more generally refer to organized simultaneity pitch.

Rhythm, is, however, definitely one of the principal qualities of music.

However, even with these slight semantic changes, I am not sure that the definition holds up, because there are plenty of things which could definitely be called music which lack one or more of these concepts.

Take, for example, plainchant, or as it is often called, Gregorian chant. It does not exhibit harmony at all, and doesn't really exhibit rhythm in any strong sense. By your statement, it would be excluded from the definition of music.
[video=youtube;Dlr90NLDp-0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0[/video]

Also, much dance music across the world has been traditionally the sole domain of percussion, so rhythm alone. I think it would be arrogant to the extreme to consider these forms not music simply because they fail to fit your definition.

That said, I don't like rap particularly much either. I think that as a genre, it has potential, as the marriage of spoken poetry and music, without masking said poetry in song. It has the potential for a lot of raw power, and also sophistication, but I very rarely see anything coming close to this ideal.

 

[RadioWave]

Fun Fact: Danny Elfman quotes Dies Irae in a number of his compositions. "Making Christmas" has always been a favorite of mine.

[video=youtube;aKAxikZmY-0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKAxikZmY-0[/video]

Read more: http://cobbsymphony.org/explore/?p=101

Duke Ellington's works have also had a strong influence on Elfman's compositional style. "After Midnight" from "Chicago" and "Oogie Boogie's Song" from "The Nightmare Before Christmas" are heavily reminiscent of "Mood Indigo" and "The Mooche" respectively.

 

[Yeps]

Fun Fact: Danny Elfman quotes Dies Irae in a number of his compositions. "Making Christmas" has always been a favorite of mine.

Read more: http://cobbsymphony.org/explore/?p=101

Duke Ellington's works have also had a strong influence on Elfman's compositional style.

I like his music, despite it tending to sound pretty similar, it fits the movies well. However, I was told a story by one of his orchestrators (I don't remember her name) who was handed a scrap of paper with a couple notes scribbled on it, and told to make it into an entire movie, which Elfman then got credit for. It was the Batman theme.

 

[RadioWave]

However, I was told a story by one of his orchestrators (I don't remember her name) who was handed a scrap of paper with a couple notes scribbled on it, and told to make it into an entire movie, which Elfman then got credit for. It was the Batman theme.

...did she at least get any kind of credit?

 

[S_M_Cumberworth]

I like his music, despite it tending to sound pretty similar, it fits the movies well. However, I was told a story by one of his orchestrators (I don't remember her name) who was handed a scrap of paper with a couple notes scribbled on it, and told to make it into an entire movie, which Elfman then got credit for. It was the Batman theme.

Something tells me that that story is exaggerated, if not entirely fabricated. Everybody knows that Elfman doesn't orchestrate his own scores. (Who in Hollywood does, though? Even John Williams works with orchestrators.) But as far as I know, besides providing detailed sketches of his scores, he actually has a bit of input in the actual orchestrations. And isn't Steve Bartek his orchestrator anyway? They have a close relationship and have been working together since the early Oingo Boingo days.

 

[Yeps]

Yeah, I am sure that it was pretty exaggerated. Anyway, the problem is that Elfman doesn't really come from a musical background that supports writing orchestral music.

Anyway, my info on him comes mostly second and third hand, so it isn't really that reliable, but I was told that out of the big film composers, he is one of the worst as far as how much of the actual music is his. (Hanz Zimmer is also a bit questionable at times). However, I will give you that the man writes great themes.

From what I have heard (even less reliable than my other statements, this one is just hearsay), Howard Shore does most of his own orchestration.

 

[S_M_Cumberworth]

Yeah, I am sure that it was pretty exaggerated. Anyway, the problem is that Elfman doesn't really come from a musical background that supports writing orchestral music.

Anyway, my info on him comes mostly second and third hand, so it isn't really that reliable, but I was told that out of the big film composers, he is one of the worst as far as how much of the actual music is his. (Hanz Zimmer is also a bit questionable at times). However, I will give you that the man writes great themes.

From what I have heard (even less reliable than my other statements, this one is just hearsay), Howard Shore does most of his own orchestration.

I wouldn't doubt the information about Shore. With some of the better-trained composers, working with orchestrators is simply a time-saving operation. Sure, John Williams has orchestrators, but they don't provide any creative input. They're basically copyists. He writes detailed notes, and his orchestrators notate according to his wishes.

But, yeah, everybody knows that Elfman doesn't actually know how to notate anything. I think most of his scores after The Nightmare Before Christmas aren't really worth listening to, but he really was able to write some pretty great tunes. I love Oingo Boingo. Well, anything before 1983, that is. After that, it becomes really inconsistent. And by the end of their career, it just becomes painfully bad. Only a Lad, their EP from 1980, and the soundtrack to The Forbidden Zone are fantastic, though.

 

[jamespowers]

I'll up the ante[/video]

You're kidding right? :laser::hippie:
Next you are going to go for the BeeGees or the Bay City Rollers. :eusa_doh:

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Fact: AtomicEraTom likes the Bee Gees

You're kidding right? :laser::hippie:
Next you are going to go for the BeeGees or the Bay City Rollers. :eusa_doh:

 

[HadleyH]

Fact: AtomicEraTom likes the Bee Gees

Exactly.

Me too.

That's why i think this thread - respectfully - is rubbish.

 

[jamespowers]

Fact: AtomicEraTom likes the Bee Gees

lol lol lol lol I think I remember that now. Ok how about Donna Summer then?

 

[Amy Jeanne]

Unpopular: I like Blink 182

I also like the BeeGees and Bay City Rollers. I *LOVE* bubblegum pop. It's my favourite type of music, really.

 

[jamespowers]

Unpopular: I like Blink 182

I also like the BeeGees and Bay City Rollers. I *LOVE* bubblegum pop. It's my favourite type of music, really.

Ok, how about the Village People and the Weather Girls then?

 

[jamespowers]

Exactly.

Me too.

That's why i think this thread - respectfully - is rubbish.

But you can't stay away from it. Its like popcorn.

 

[MissMittens]

Unpopular: I like Blink 182

Nothing wrong with that. Heck, what IS my age again???

The rest of the bands you listed are unpopular already though

 

[Rundquist]

A more appropriate statement of you elements would be: pitch, rhythm, and harmony.

The reason I chose replaced melody with pitch is that in a lot of late 19th and early 20th century music (Debussy and Stravinsky come to mind, not to say that neither of them wrote melodies. They wrote some beautiful melodies) as well as much of the music before the 18th century, there are pieces of music which are completely devoid of anything that could truly be called melody. So, pitch seems to be the essential quality, not melody.

Likewise chords should be replaced by harmony, since the concept of chords is a relatively modern one, dating back only to the late 18th century. Harmony, while it can refer to a specific set of rules, also from the 18th century, can more generally refer to organized simultaneity pitch.

Rhythm, is, however, definitely one of the principal qualities of music.

However, even with these slight semantic changes, I am not sure that the definition holds up, because there are plenty of things which could definitely be called music which lack one or more of these concepts.

Take, for example, plainchant, or as it is often called, Gregorian chant. It does not exhibit harmony at all, and doesn't really exhibit rhythm in any strong sense. By your statement, it would be excluded from the definition of music.
[video=youtube;Dlr90NLDp-0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0[/video]

Also, much dance music across the world has been traditionally the sole domain of percussion, so rhythm alone. I think it would be arrogant to the extreme to consider these forms not music simply because they fail to fit your definition.

That said, I don't like rap particularly much either. I think that as a genre, it has potential, as the marriage of spoken poetry and music, without masking said poetry in song. It has the potential for a lot of raw power, and also sophistication, but I very rarely see anything coming close to this ideal.

Yeah, harmony was the correct term, I just remembered wrong. Perhaps those three things were just the elements of music, not the definition. I took that class a long time ago. For the most part I like music to be strong in all three, so maybe I was projecting there a bit.

 

[Rundquist]

You're kidding right? :laser::hippie:
Next you are going to go for the BeeGees or the Bay City Rollers. :eusa_doh:

Hey, nobody makes fun of you for your liking of 80 year old music played by white guys with tuba and banjo. :eusa_doh:

 

[jamespowers]

Hey, nobody makes fun of you for your liking of 80 year old music played by white guys with tuba and banjo. :eusa_doh:

This isn't the site dedicated to 70s hippie bands either. This is the Unpopular Music Opinions thread. If you want to make fun of 80 year old music this is your thread.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

Ok, how about the Village People and the Weather Girls then?

Love 'em. How can anyone NOT like "It's Raining Men"???!!! The more insipid THE BETTER!

I stole one of my dad's Village People records and it has a huge fold-out poster in it lol